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StarGazer
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San Francisco
Jun 2001
time: 21:14
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quote:
Originally posted by WesW
I have re-named the Arcologies advance Mega-construction, to avoid confusion in the future. |
Thanks, Wes.
quote:
Originally posted by WesW
I am going to go in and reduce the cost of the post-Industrial age advances by about 33% to 50%, and see if this does not solve the timeline problem once and for all. |
I'm now at 2251 A.D. The past 50 turns have been incredibly different (much faster progression) from the preceding 800 (or thereabouts). With at least 15,000 production points per turn, I can turn out 5 obelisks per turn. My top cities can produce a satellite every two turns and a computer core every 3 or 4. I've created sea cities, bringing my total number of cities up to 50. The negative happiness effect from going over the 45-cities limit is minor (-1), to say the least.
There is no question but that I will be able to gain the Science Victory. I could have done so already, during these past 50 years, but my love of empire building and the fun I'm having watching the other civs fighting each other (now that I can see everything that goes on because of the Globesat Wonder) has made me delay the ending of this, my very first game of CTP.
It's so cute watching those troops march around. It's only since getting the Globesat that I've been able to see them fighting. No wonder so many of you enjoy the military aspects of this game! I love the little sounds of war, too -- the "booms" and "cries." I imagine that it all gets pretty old after a number of games, but for the moment it's really fun watching all this action.
WES, with your reductions to the cost of post-Industrial Age Advances, a player may be able to gain the Science Victory by 2200 A.D. I don't know at which level, though. What I see you doing is making it possible for those of us who enjoy aiming for the Science Victory to play at a more difficult level and thus enjoy better (fiercer?) competition from the AI civs -- which is certainly all right with me!
At Medium Level, the AI Civs are real duds at fighting one another. The Arabs keep moving their troops back and forth from one end of their empire to the other, instead of focusing on conquering the one Native American city that's at the south end of their empire And the Native Americans have never, to my knowledge, sent any reinforcements to that one, isolated city of theirs on the Arab continent. Of course, the NA's are busy fighting every other AI Civ, too (the English and the Scots -- who are to their north).
The English and the Scots are the most fun to watch. They have built cities on each other's continent. This one city must have changed hands about five or six times in the last 50 turns.
None of the AIs have discovered Flight yet, so they are limited to land and sea. Their ability to fight sea battles, however, is horrendous! They keep passing each other with their ships without stopping to fight. They have Galleons, Ironclads, and Troop Ships. They're about at the beginning of the Modern Age in development.
Two military questions: What does it mean when a (Scot) partisan approaches an (English) city (that the English have just taken from the Scots) and then a red STOP icon (a circle with a line drawn through it) appears over the city? And what does it mean when an enemy troop (soldier, etc.) arrives next to a city and a crossed trumpets icon with a white flag appears above the city?
Final question: I would really like to play the game with the map as a virtual globe (with no top/bottom borders). Is there some adjustment I can make to MM2 so that this original feature of CTP2 is available again?
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Stargazer, no top or bottom borders is a torus, not a sphere. You know, a torus, like a big donut. (Mmmmm, donut!)
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WesW
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Florence, Al., USA
Jan 1970
time: 23:14
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New text update posted. I did not realize that it had been three weeks since the last update. Anyway, this one is pretty big.
It contains the fixes to the Cruise Missile and Arcologies advance as well as the 40% reduction in advance costs for the last three eras. The changes to wonder effects mentioned previously is in there. Dale's personality changing code and diplomatic leader pics are included, plus I also added a soundfix by Martin which adds sounds when you place tile improvements.
I think that is everything. You will need to use modswapper to update the GL, and reload slic if you continue a previous game. I would recommend starting new ones, however, to fully evaluate the personality changing code.
Because of the new leader pics, this update is much larger than usual. I will leave this up for a few days to let you guys get it and evaluate it, then I am going to remove the pics from the update and post them in an updated pics-n-vids component. The new text component will be the other half of the 1.1 public release. If you get this update, you will not need to get the new 1.1 pictures component.
Gazer, I think the stop icon with the Partisan means that the AI was attempting to do something it was not allowed to do. I do not know what this would be. I think the trumpet and flag occurs when a unit pillages.
I think you can use the donut world option in the start game menu to get the world you describe. You can choose this without affecting the mod.
Cube, I decided to keep those two improvements acitve mainly because you need them. Also, their effects do not increase along with city size like the other improvements I obsoleted. The main reason I obsoleted buildings was because the early ones became such a bargain by the time cities were large that it made the newer, more expensive ones largely unnecessary.
In the case of the Theater and Arena, they are still used by people who attend plays or operas, and arenas are usually part of civic centers here in the US. (I thought seriously about having a Civic Center improvement instead of one of the current choices.)
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Jules
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Chairman & CEO, Dallas Oil Company
Jul 2001
time: 00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by WesW
In the case of the Theater and Arena, they are still used by people who attend plays or operas, and arenas are usually part of civic centers here in the US. (I thought seriously about having a Civic Center improvement instead of one of the current choices.) |
That sounds like a great idea actually, especially if people are unhappy with having Arenas and Theaters around for the full game. You could pick some modern age or later advance that makes these two obsolete at the same time, then have a Civic Center building which gives +4 happiness (Arena + Theater). Since a Theater is only required for Arena, and nothing requires Arena, you wouldn't have to worry about losing the ability to build other needed improvements.
On a related note, I have written code to implement the bonus food advances Germ Theory and Immunization. All I did was create two improvements with the same name as the advance that gives them, using the same icons as their advance. When you get the advance, SLIC puts the building in all your cities. Each gives 10% food. When you discover Contraception they're automatically destroyed. Perhaps this could be changed so that the civ has to have both Contraception and Equal Rights (career women having fewer babies) before the benefits are taken away. That way the population boom could last a bit longer. Just a suggestion.
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Hey Wes, I've got a suggestion regarding ecotopian personalities. Populist zealots tend to use whatever the rage of the age is to rouse the rabble. Given that ecotopians get stuck in theocracy until someone gives them Mass Media (at which point they merely get stuck in Fundamentalism) and that Abs. Mon. comes too close on the heels of theocracy, I make the following recomendation. Make socialism easier to get and tell ecotopians to use communism. During the renaissance, zealots motivate the proles with God, during the industrial age they rely on dialectic materialism. With Mass Media they return to God, and with naturalism, God becomes Gaia. Makes perfect sense. I don't know how succesful the personality switching code is, but even if it works well, a high minded scientist in the industrial age may become a populist zealot and BAMN! Suddenly he or she switches to theocracy - the industrial age equivalent of putting a sign on your ass that reads 'kick me'. Bad, very bad. Let'em be commies. Also, the communism thing works OK (I've set mine up that way) once they get to socialism (usually I have to give this to them also but at least it comes quicker than mass media).
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StarGazer
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San Francisco
Jun 2001
time: 21:14
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What do I have to do in order to be able to delete posts in which I have asked questions to which I have discovered the answers and therefore which no longer need to remain posted?
Every time I try to delete one of my own posts, I am blocked from doing so.:banned:
Last edited by StarGazer on 22-07-2001 at 16:55
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Starfighter08
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Switzerland
Nov 2000
time: 05:14
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Following happened: I discovered public education which renders academy obsolete but I hadn't built publishing houses before this happened. So I was no longer able to build them, and of course public schools need them too. I would recommend to change the prerequisite-building of "Publishing House" from academy to university.
Btw Wes the link to the "large civ download" seems to be dead.
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Apollon
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Stockholm, Sweden
Nov 2000
time: 05:14
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Well, I'm well on with my game now. 1800AD and ticking... I noticed some things, mostly good, for me, but not very good for the AI.
1: With the new decrease in research costs in the later stages, I manage to be ahead of the chart almost all the time. Playing on Impossible with 8 civs on a 98 x 196 "gigantic" map, as usual. Before, I've had enuff problems keeping up with the AI's in science. Now, I'm waaaaaay ahead of them and I can't really say that my empire is that much better than it usually are. Sure, I manage mostly without bigger problems there. But now it wasn't that fun seeing the AI getting left behind.
Some good updates on the AI:
They build cities like rabbits multiply  i.e, enuff.
Also noticed they changed "policies" during game, haven't noticed many side-effects of that so far.
Time to go to bed, 2:30 am at the moment.
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StarGazer
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San Francisco
Jun 2001
time: 21:14
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quote:
Originally posted by WesW
I have also changed the Public School preq. I tried to be sure and not have any obseleting buildings as preqs, but I obviously missed one here. |
WES, did you make that change in the July 18th update, or is there an even more recent update?
quote:
Originally posted by WesW
Pedrunn, you are right about the random setting. I have thought about changing it to 5, too. What do the rest of you think? |
Although I've played only two games so far, I think 6 is OK. I've gotten elite units in both my games. If you change it to 5, that includes the AIs, and in the two games I have played, they have certainly gotten their fair share of EUs! But then, two games is not what I would call a "fair sampling" statistically.
quote:
Originally posted by WesW
I sent an email to Dale informing him of your embassy reports. Hopefully he will see it when he gets to work in a few hours. |
Yes, I'd like to know this, too, since all of a sudden, on TURN 40, an English noble appeared next to my capital city, established an embassy, and disappeared. And my civ hadn't even made contact with the Brits yet. But then, perhaps it was the noble himself who made "first contact."
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Der PH
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Aachen, Germany, Old Europe, Axis of Evil
Jul 2001
time: 06:14
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In my actual game (impossible, max. barbarians, huge map, 21 civs) sometime before the discovery of ocean faring I traded maps with a neighbouring civ.
The map I got included information about a continent with three civs on it, which was completely isolated from the rest of the world and had no connection to it on the map, which would indicate the use of some early ocean faring elite-ships.
I guess the map came to my neighbour with one of the 'teleporting nobles', which I saw several times appearing at my own capital.
Not a severe bug I think, but it didn't happen before the update.
Another thing I mentioned:
Shortly after the discovery of public education I built a school in one of my biggest cities (size 19). I checked out the science output before and after the completion of the building and saw that it had decreased!
By lowering the upkeep cost for the school from 16 to 6 in the MM2_buildings.txt I achieved a slight increase in science, but surely less than the promised 60 %.
This experience made me have a closer look at the gold and science ratings, but I didn't understand completely, how they come about.
Can anybody tell me, how this ratings are calculated and in which order wages, buildings like the bazaar and the academy, governmental influences and all the other things are taken into account?
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Starfighter08
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Switzerland
Nov 2000
time: 05:14
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Talking about the large civs addition. Is capitol distance unhappyness reduced (readme doesn't seem to mention it) too? I ask because I have cities on the other side of the world which keep rioting.
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WesW
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Florence, Al., USA
Jan 1970
time: 23:14
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Jason, the pirate code will be like that in civ2. Pirates will form like barbarians to raid your shorelines and land troops to attack your cities.
The expansion code will add a city tile next to existing cities when they reach certian sizes (generally when their borders expand). The tile underneath the new "suburb" will have no value, like a dead tile. This will be the price you pay to house your growing population. You will also in effect lose the production of the worker assigned to this square. I envision that worker as a city employee working to keep the city running (trash collection, maintenance, police, city hall, etc.)
Walco, that is a game bug you are experiencing. It deletes your last trade route each time you reload the game.
Apollon, you need to use the Large civs version, which is designed to help keep you from getting ahead in the timeline. I do not see how the new reduced advance costs would hurt the AIs performance. I think you may have some weak AI civs in this game.
PH, as for the School, building upkeep is taken out of commerce, along with wages, and what is left over is divided into science and gold dependent upon your slider settings. If your city does not have a lot of commerce left to convert into science, then the School upkeep may be negating the effects of the building. You need to build more commerce TIs, or else switch into a government which has a higher commerce rating.
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StarGazer
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San Francisco
Jun 2001
time: 21:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Walco
At about 1800 in every game ive tried so far .About 6 games in all. For no reason I can explain . ONE and only ONE of my trade routs deletes.If I restart it ,deletes again.Each turn I have to restart the rout and each turn I have one less caravan to do so .As one dies at the same time.
No matter how long I do this .The same thing occurs ONLY with one rout though.  Does anyone know what might be going on here.  .
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I don't know if this fits your situation, but I'll offer my experience in case it helps.
I've found that when my civ gets, in the opinion of the other civs, far too powerful (or wealthy), they begin silently (i.e., without notifying me) to cancel my trade routes with them.
Each civ does it in its own way. Some cancel all their routes at once (the Native Americans seem the most prone to do this); some cancel only a few; etc. The first time this happened, I kept re-establishing the routes with the same civs, only to find the routes cancelled again on the next turn. Finally, I got so disgusted at losing one caravan for each route every turn, I switched all my trade to my own civ. Reduced income, but far less frustrating.
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Apollon
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Stockholm, Sweden
Nov 2000
time: 05:14
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Wes: Do you update the Large Civs version each time you release the other text update? Because I chose to use the normal version due to the fact that I didn't know if you updated them both. Mayby you should add a "update date" as with the txt file?
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Bluevoss
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Orlando, Florida
Dec 2000
time: 05:14
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Wes,
This trade bug - the one that deletes a route every time you reload, can this be fixed? If not, is there a way that the player can be "given" enough caravans so that he can reestablish the route?
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18-07-2001 18:54
) -- 
Attachment: 
But i thoutgh they were re-stablishing a embassy after a period of war. But i always wondered why i did never got my old embassies re-stablished too. Just the AI used too. 
At about 1800 in every game ive tried so far .About 6 games in all. For no reason I can explain .
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