12-06-2001 17:18									#61
	Put an end to popups!

I don't remember what I was currently researching, but I do know that some of my options for researching were Conscription, Chronometer, and Physics. So according to the Mod advances chart I would have been at about the Renaissance Age. I don't really know how I was doing as far as keeping up with the tech tree according to the turns. If the year was 1764 and I was able to research those items where am I in relation to where I should be in the tech tree at that time?! Thanks guys!!

	12-06-2001 20:37									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Thought I'd give you guys an update on how far I've come. Playing on impossible with 6 AI's, 5 left.

Currently at 1350 AD, and I have almost finished the part that is right under the "5)" in the tech chart. And I recently got railroad. Now, the reason for me being THAT far ahead might be due to the fact that I've been allied to the 2nd most advanced (he was 1st until I caught up) since a good while, after I finished my last war, about 400-800AD something, can't remember. We've been sharing techs and I've managed to stay on the same lvl as they are. Things are starting to slow down now, both in their research and in mine. I tend to play this game as far as I can Partially to continue with updates and also see if the AI actually cares to nuke me

	12-06-2001 22:24									#63
	Suffering from ads?

For what it's worth, I'm playing on hard in the year 1865(75?) and I'm currently researching flight. I havn't traded advances with any civs because for some reason the option doesn't show up on the diplomacy screen?? I'm also having problems with cities spontaneously revolting. Its usually a city far away from my capitol, but not necessarily an unhappy one. What irks me about it is the lack of pop up message indication of the city loss. My science is moving slowly and production is killing me. I think I may need to start a new game with the prod/commerce/food ratios you gentlemen recommended earlier.

Adam

	13-06-2001 00:21									#64
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

As far as the 30/30/40 ratios, they were for way back in the Alpha when I was trying out the pop-based upkeep cost for most improvements. I wish that had worked out, since upkeep normally comes out of commerce, which takes it from both science and gold. There is nothing much to do with gold now, except bribe other civs or rush-buy things. I have kept increasing the percent of income which can be allocated to science, so that you don't end up with huge amounts of gold and nothing to do with it, but it would still be better if wages and upkeep came out of gold so that you had to make decisions and build more gold improvements.
Back to the ratios- You may not be able to maintain that since there is much less forests, jungle, swamp and tundra than there used to be. I would put trade posts on those 4 types, and then make sure your growth and production are strong before placing posts on grassland or plains.

I have changed the revolt messages to pop-up status. I don't know why the designers had not done that before.

As far as cities, I have not had the odd experiences some of you keep reporting. I have a size 20 city in my current game, and it is at zero growth because of the overcrowding, which is just like it should be. I have not seen the negative growth bug.
If you have cities revolting on you, check out the status tab and see what factors are influencing happiness. City distance may be making the unhappiness go below 65.

I thought that Dale has disabled the "give city" option for the AI, because they could be bullied too easily. It shoulds like you earned your city, though, so maybe this is ok.

I am in the Industrial age in my current game. I had gotten about a 150 yrs ahead in the tech chart, but I am no longer able to trade with the other AIs because I am ahead of them all, and I am slowly falling back. Most tech are taking about 7 to 10 turns under Republic, which is too long when you have 20 or 30 techs and are only alloted 80 turns to research them.
I have increased the science production for the modern-era govt's, but I am still going to have to go into the advances file and reduce the cost of the techs by about 1/3 to 1/2, I am guessing. I will continue my current game and try to set the costs based upon it.

Questions:
Have you seen the AIs expanding beyond 10 cities when they get more advanced govts which allow mosre cities?
In my game, the AIs have plenty of good terrain in which to expand, but none of them have established more than 10 cities, and some of them have been in Abs. Monarchy or Repubic for a hundred turns.
Also, have you seen the AIs building Urban planners or Sea Engineers and establishing sea colonies?

Also, does thee game seem to slow down in the middle?
I am running out of things to do in the late 1700's, though I have not had any conflict since my war with the Romans a thousand years ago. Since the game seems to slow down, and people get ahead of the tech chart, I am thinking about reducing the Renaissance age to 80 turns, and perhaps adding those 20 turns to the Ancient age.
What do you guys think?

	13-06-2001 00:34									#65
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In all my games so far, the AI has built more than 10 cities, usually this has exploded when they got Abs, Mon. I started a new game after my last post. Currently at 1380 AD, I haven't got grenadiers yet, not far away tho. This time, I built up a good economy with trade routes etc etc. Didn't kiss the AI's butt to get their advances, but instead I traded for them. For now, I'm getting majorly frustrated on the bloody Russians. I've given them atleast 10000 gold in donations so far in the game, and they have yet to accept a peace treaty, or get above "wary of us" or "disrust us" regard

I'm about 4-5 techs behind the most advanced atm, but I'm hanging in there. The barbarians are a pain in the ass on my two biggest cities, 17 and 18. I'll keep the info coming as I get along

Diff: Impossible, Mauraders, 7players, pollution: on.
As hard as you can get it more or less.
and a modified Gigantic map with the proportions 95x190
instead of the standard 70x140

	13-06-2001 07:41									#66
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If ever you release an update to the MedMod, one thing that is most needed is an explanation or program to alter things. As the Med Mod currently runs I am still playing the original game. There are three key changes I would make.

1. Garrisons... what is with this? It encourages infinite city sprawl strategy. The second I build a city it has defenses. Not good.

2. Tile resources... everything is mixed up. I prefer the original settings. Beaches have been rendered useless, making one tile island cities completely unviable.

3. You have created a serious problem with boats. Unless I get the elite catamaran unit I need to wait a very long time (too long) before I can go over deep water. When playing an islands map it becomes a very isolated and dull game.


Each of these things should be easily modified, no? Is there a way that I can do it myself?

	13-06-2001 10:02									#67
	Odd??? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I got finally time to install and test MedPack.

First I unzipped the last beta. Then the first final version and finally I unzipped the last version. Every files was unzipped as they should be.

I changed to the original game from modswapper(save & exit) and then I was not sure do I have to unzip files after I have changed to the original game so I unzipped all files again to be sure everything is ok.

Then I used modswapper and selected medpack 2. I selected "shortcut to start menu" too. Save & Exit. MedPack did not come to start menu?!?!? Why not? I did this again and again. It does not come to start menu. I tried to add original game to start menu and that worked fine. Then I tried to add medpack to desktop and right after I selected desktop checkbox modwapper gave me an error(file not found(53)).

So I decided to start medpack game right from modswapper. Game started. Good. New game. I Changed ruler name to that same that it has always been. Launch. What. Back to the desctop with errortext. ****!

I tried it again but I forgot to change my ruler name. What, the game started ok?!?!? I quited and changed my rulername again. Crash to desktop. And new game without changing rulername. Works fine.

So I started the game with original rulername. I suppose I have to get all files and do "clean" install of MedPack but I will play my current game before doing that.

Does anyone have any ideas why the modwapper or the game did what they did?

PS. The game's start seems to be very good with impossible and 8 nations in regular map. But I am still waiting to see AI's good defence/offensive stacks.

PPS. I asked many times orange AI to withdraw. He accepted and continued to wander in my lands. Finally after about 15-20 turns his unit disappeared with horn sound and icons(and I did not ask him to withdraw in that turn). I would like to know how that withdraw code is coded? Why did he vanish like that(it is ok to me)?

	13-06-2001 10:07									#68
	Tech Tree testing Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

1) Started game three on very-hard to check the progression along the tech tree. Same as usual with no noticeable difference with medium. I am generating more gold than in the past by proper tiles improvements. Before I had negative gold cities, now it hardly ever happens.

2) Main AI competitor "The Yellow Mayans", were n°1 all the way until around end of 16th century, were I became the leader on that aspect. But his hanging in there never more than one or two techs behind. They are sharing the same continent with me.

3) I had never seen an AI develop so much economically, and maintain such friendly relationships. He has never been at war with anybody!. He has cities all over the continent (20+), builds roads and improvements, etc... He is going to be a mean sob ( sorry for the language) to take-out as I must eventually do!!!

4) He has a lot of troop movements, (I can hear the noise), but each time I send a spy to have a look, they are all tucked away inside the cities. This seems to infur a better management than in the standard CTP2. This is equally confirmed by my other next door neighbour the "Violet Italians".

5) Now those "Italians" I already had a chat with them as they were weak and sitting on the only part of the continent which has 95% forest. Needless to say I wanted it for my science output!!!. On my first attempt, early in the game I attacked his little 2 pop citiy of Florence(I forget!) with a balanced 12 count stack of archers, H. cavalary and H swordsman and got the shock of my life!! ZIPP I lost them all, and was so suprised I didn't retreat!! It wasn't even a figth, it was slaugther, and I was the one beeing slaugthered. This had never happened to me before either in CTP2 or CTP1 for that matter, at least not to this extent. The "Italians" didn't even loose one unit! So beeing wise and intelligent (ha!), I dediced to wait untill I was way ahead on tech to get him. This happened (I thougth) around 1700 where there is a lull in the action, and I usually do the house cleaning in the units. So I built two stacks of Pikemen, Bowmen and siege machines and of I went for a second try! Now as I finally reached the city gates I hit 1800 and whamo!!! my two stacks are reduced to nothing by the automatic trigger!!! Great I just lost over 100 years of production!!!

Needles to say what was left (stack of 12) became confetti at the second battle of Florence (Yeah I'm stuburn) and I went back for the third build-up which occured with grenadiers and field guns in 1900!! This time "FINALLY" they took a hasty departure for the never never land and in four brief battles the "Italians" were no more

BTW the stack inside the defending towns were always 12 units with misceleneous defense and ranged units, ie optimum defence set-ups!
Boy, taking "big Yellow Mayan brother" on is going to be something, as he has the production ability to follow up if I miss my first try!

Wes:

1) There definetely is a slow down around 1700, but that is good for the housekeeping, and not really against history as it corresponds to the calm period prior to the french independance and Napleonic wars that came rigth after (please somebody correct me if wrong), and that created quite a stirr at least in Europe.

2) You have to do something for that 1800 trigger which really hits the wrong units. It should disband the oldder units but not the current period ones (maybe?).

3) I agree with your solution to reduce the cost of techs!

4) When you update the "text" zip of the MM2 from the 6/6/01 to the 10/6/01 do you have to run modswapper again?


I have really been enjoying myself since the release of the MM2. Keep up the good work!

	13-06-2001 10:38									#69
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Janix:
I can answer your first question (I think anyway). In the readme files it says: "Do not create a shortcut using modswapper"

What I did was to create a shortcut to modswapper instead, that does work.

	13-06-2001 10:54									#70
	Re: Odd??? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by janilxx PPS. I asked many times orange AI to withdraw. He accepted and continued to wander in my lands. Finally after about 15-20 turns his unit disappeared with horn sound and icons(and I did not ask him to withdraw in that turn). I would like to know how that withdraw code is coded? Why did he vanish like that(it is ok to me)?

From the three games I already had, I deduced that it explodes because the AI in question did not withdraw it on time (i didn't count how many turns). It happens quite often at the beguinning of the game. Later on its uses stacks hence takes better care of them!

	13-06-2001 12:19									#71
	Re: Re: Odd??? Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Frog_Gamer From the three games I already had, I deduced that it explodes because the AI in question did not withdraw it on time (i didn't count how many turns). It happens quite often at the beguinning of the game. Later on its uses stacks hence takes better care of them!

I think Dale(or someone) told us sometime ago that AI unit is "deleted" if it won't find a way to go away from my lands in 20(?) turns?!?!? Or something like that.

But in my situation AI tried to go away but stupidly. He was near my border and he wandered to different directions(sometimes one or two stepst to east, then south, then maybe north and west etc).

I think that if AI is really trying to withdraw he should try to walk directly away from my city/cities and maybe towards his borders(maybe not always). Not zikzak walking(sometimes north, sometimes south, then wes(t) and east...).

If AI unit sees my border I think he should try to walk to there or directly towards his own nation. BUT!!!!!!!!!! Maybe he could try to be clever and stay in my nation but try to be hidden(not near my cities or units). Ummmmm did he try that in my game too?!? Maybe but why did he then disappear?

If he somehow understands that my troops are trying to see if he is going away then he should go away and not try to hide in my lands.

This is quite confusing mail but try to follow my ideas and thoughts

	13-06-2001 12:21									#72
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Apollon Janix: I can answer your first question (I think anyway). In the readme files it says: "Do not create a shortcut using modswapper"

Ups does it say so It have worked before

Maybe I should read readmes well again

	13-06-2001 15:44									#73
	Put an end to popups!

To start with the simple things
Bit hard to understand what you meant Jan

Anyway, the units don't get deleted. They get sent back to the nearest friendly city, just like when you expel a unit If you have a non-tresspass agreement with a AI, and you stay inside his borders too long, you will also get expelled.

	13-06-2001 16:43									#74
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

1520 AD now, still the same game, impossible, 7 civs etc.
Finally the tide has turned
The russians have been a pain in the ass ever since I met them, 3000 years ago. Now they finally did it They attacked and took one of my border cities. Furious as I became , massive war production started. Meanwhile, more and more civs had declared war against the Russians. At the moment, I got 3 stacks á 12 units, nicely balanced with cavalry, musketeers, culverins. I also started to prepare for 2 stacks of Grenadiers, Field Guns (have to research those first) and cavalry. So now, the Russians are at war with just about everyone in the game.
I'm aswell, finally on the 1st place with the most advanced AI. No AI has given me anything for free this far, I've had to trade techs with one, then that tech with another and so on and so forth. Gonna change to republic as soon as the Russians are eliminated

I'll keep the updates coming. Summer vacation now, finally

	13-06-2001 17:48									#75
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Apollon Bit hard to understand what you meant Jan

It is JANI you swedish bastard

(I just had to say this No hard feelings )

	13-06-2001 17:57									#76
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Bah! Finns

Anyway, if anyone would like screenshots of potential bugs, or how the civs are proceeding, I can mail you some. Found two minor flaws. 1st: withdrawal of AI units. The problem as I see it with how withdrawal works now is that it doesn't always withdraw the AI stack inside my territory. It withdraws one unit from the stack each turn. 2nd, seems to be just a minor script error. When an abolitionist free a slave in your city, the msg telling you about it is written like this:
"A foreign {unitrecord[0].name} has liberated some of our slaves in the city of Hamburg".

That's all I have for now I guess

The Russians are getting their butt kicked, got 5 stacks engaging them in battle now. I also managed to take Moscow from Stalin himself and, oh man, have they tried to take it back
Slaughtered 24 units so far from 2 stacks that were sent to take it back. Gonna keep invading, but give their cities to the Civ sharing my place science-wise, the canadians.

1644 AD: Currently researching steam engine.

	13-06-2001 18:06									#77
	Tired of ads?

Hi Everybody,

Well for the most part everyone looks like they are satisfied with the game. That means that Wes did a really good job with it. I guess a few poeple will never be satisfied but that is to be expected. If everybody was the same it would be a real drag.

WesW,

You asked for an official explanation about how to get MM2 to work on W2K, so here it is. I took notes while I installed the latest update last night so I know all the steps are there. Here goes. (Note Mod Swapper does not work with W2K, thus this solution.)

1)Unzip all the MM2 zip files to a unique folder. I use d:\CTP2_Senarios.
2) Copy all the files to their respective folders in the Activision folder. They are saved under the proper folder names when they are unzipped. I just put them under a different higher folder name.
3) Copy all of the following files out of the Activision folders and save them in a seperate directory. \\Activision\ctp2_data\English\Great_Library.txt, \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\Newsprite.txt, \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\Wondermovie.txt, \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\Victorymovie.txt,
\\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\gamefile.txt.
4) Once you have saved all the above files into a seperate directory, perhaps called original, delete them from the game folders.
5) Rename the following files as described; \\Activision\ctp2_data\English\MM2_Great_Library.txt to \\Activision\ctp2_data\English\Great_Library.txt, \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\MM2_Newsprite.txt to \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\Newsprite.txt, \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\MM2_Wondermovie.txt to \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\Wondermovie.txt, \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\MM2_Victorymovie.txt to \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\Victorymovie.txt,
\\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\MM2_gamefile.txt to \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\Gamefile.txt
6) Copy \\Activision\ctp2_data\English\Great_Library.txt to \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\Great_Library.txt
7) Open up \\Activision\ctp2_data\Default\Gamefile.txt in Notepad or some other text editor and make the following changes; change MM2_Wondermovie.txt to Wondermovie.txt, change MM2_Victorymovie.txt to Victorymovie.txt, change MM2_Great_Library.txt to Great_Library.txt, change MM2_Newsprite.txt to Newsprite.txt.

If you follow all these steps things should work fine. Once this is done, if for some inconcievable reason you want to go back to the original game, just copy the saved original files back into their original directories and everything should be back to the same old unchallenging CTP2 many of us have grown to loath and despise.

Timothy Pintello

	13-06-2001 19:57									#78
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Wes: I've encountered similar of the settler problems you've been talking about. The problem is not that the AI doesn't build settlers, it is that it doesn't bloody build cities with them

In the current game, the 2 problem civ's are the Spanish and the Polish. The polish ended up in the middle of antarctica in the beginning, which wasn't very good. The spanish got a BIG arable piece of land. Still, it build it's cities 3-5 squares away from eachother. Then, when it reached 10, it stopped. Now, they are a democracy, and still, they only have those same cities left. The polish have 4 cities, they have had that since 2000 BC. They constantly send settlers to me, both civs, even thought they got plenty of space to build on. The Spanish are managing rather ok, almost all their cities are 18+. The polish however, got 2 cities 13+, one 8 and one 5. So they kinda suck bigtime.
The Byzantine on the other hand, expands like a madman. The canadians have halted and builds about 1 city each 3rd century or so. The Russians have started to build cities again, since I ruined 70% of their cities.

Game progression and observations concerning techs:
Currently 1823AD and I seem to follow the chart somewhat, I am however, getting behind, well, all players in the game are. Had I not been allied to a scientific AI, I would have been a bit behind the rest. I research what he doesn't research, then we trade and do it all over again. I'm also having rather severe cash problems, half the cities are at -xx and there are a few with +120 who supplies the entire civilization

I finally started to build that London Exchange, would take about 90 turns. When I had 8 turns left... I got a warning saying the Canadians were almost finished

Oh well, gonna take a brake now. Cya.

	13-06-2001 21:06									#79
	Re: Odd??? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by janilxx I got finally time to install and test MedPack. First I unzipped the last beta. Then the first final version and finally I unzipped the last version. Every files was unzipped as they should be. I changed to the original game from modswapper(save & exit) and then I was not sure do I have to unzip files after I have changed to the original game so I unzipped all files again to be sure everything is ok. Then I used modswapper and selected medpack 2. I selected "shortcut to start menu" too. Save & Exit. MedPack did not come to start menu?!?!? Why not? I did this again and again. It does not come to start menu. I tried to add original game to start menu and that worked fine. Then I tried to add medpack to desktop and right after I selected desktop checkbox modwapper gave me an error(file not found(53)). So I decided to start medpack game right from modswapper. Game started. Good. New game. I Changed ruler name to that same that it has always been. Launch. What. Back to the desctop with errortext. ****! I tried it again but I forgot to change my ruler name. What, the game started ok?!?!? I quited and changed my rulername again. Crash to desktop. And new game without changing rulername. Works fine. So I started the game with original rulername. I suppose I have to get all files and do "clean" install of MedPack but I will play my current game before doing that. Does anyone have any ideas why the modwapper or the game did what they did? PS. The game's start seems to be very good with impossible and 8 nations in regular map. But I am still waiting to see AI's good defence/offensive stacks. PPS. I asked many times orange AI to withdraw. He accepted and continued to wander in my lands. Finally after about 15-20 turns his unit disappeared with horn sound and icons(and I did not ask him to withdraw in that turn). I would like to know how that withdraw code is coded? Why did he vanish like that(it is ok to me)?

Here is the text from the Triggers readme, which I have expanded so that it makes a bigger impression when you cover all this:

- Withdraw units: If a civ still has units in your territory ten turns after agreeing to withdraw, they will be disbanded, the flags icon will appear, and the units will be re-created next to their nearest city.

I don't believe we ever tested with re-naming the ruler, so this might be problem.
I would suggest you not use the create-shortcut features of the modswapper program, since if you select the Medpack when it is already loaded, it overwrites the original game's files, and you have to manually insert the "originals" again. I made this mistake a few days ago myself using the safer method, and had to dl the files from my own site and install them.
It does not matter if you install the mod files before or after selecting the original game.

As per Pilfer's comments, I encourage people to make their own variations of the mod. I will even post them at my site provided they are properly tested and documented. We just have some disagreements on those three topics you mentioned.
The settings you list are fairly easy to change once you become familiar with the text files. They could just invlove changing some numbers and a couple of flags in the case of moving over deep water. Whether to restrict the Cog to the coastline or not was something I changed back and forth a couple of times before deciding to keep it coastal. If you prefer specialty maps then you will want to change features like this. I hope you see that I have to set things for regular maps if it is to be a complete mod and not simply a variation on the regular game.

When you go from the June 6th to the June 10th update, you do have to use modswapper, since I changed some stuff in the GL. You also need to reload slic if you continue a game.

Thanks for the Win2k instructions, Tim. They will be included in the next update.

I may take away the slaving ability of Pikemen, since it doesn't really fit my image of that unit.
Strange, though, that you had not discovered the gunpowder units long before 1800.

When I get back I may write a post offering my views on why the game wasn't shipped properly balanced, since the AI behavior you all are enjoying now was entirely possible to obtain with the original game. All Dale Kent and I have done is adjust the settings. Though Dale also wrote up some new settings for the Diplomod, they were things already enabled in the exe., and which the designers could have done themselves.

	14-06-2001 11:28									#80
	Re: Re: Odd??? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by WesW I don't believe we ever tested with re-naming the ruler, so this might be problem.

So does this mean that all of you are always playing with given original ruler name? Like Wech Walesa for polish etc.

	14-06-2001 15:47									#81
	Support Apolyton

Yup

	14-06-2001 15:58									#82
	Got spare money?

Own rulername did work in the last(or was it one before last) beta version. So some new fixes has disabled own rulername

	14-06-2001 16:00									#83
	Increase Your PM Length

Med Mod actually encouraged me to put CtP2 back on the drive after many months absence. First no-brainer: The mod didn't work. Why? Because I forgot to load the CtP patch first. Doh! You might want to put a one liner in the readme just to remind idiots like me

Playing on 'average' there are some civs that refuse to expand or will only seem to do so if they can settle on land inside your (not their) expansion border. One or two seem able to expand without this problem, although they may only be going over 10 cities by conquest rather than natural expansion.

I've been able to keep slightly ahead of the tech tree dates researching everything myself and have built all the wonders barring the very earliest where every civ was stiffly competing to get them. They are surprisingly high on the tech tree given their diminuitive sizes so they must be trading techs amongst themselves quite often. Even on this easy setting the AI are notably better at combat tactics although I have found it possible to outflank their defences by threatening one or two cities then attacking elsewhere.

	14-06-2001 17:43									#84
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hi Janilxx,

I actually use me own ruler name. I like playing the Byzantine and I always change me ruler to Belisarius. Even with the latest update I have never had problems in the original name department.

Timothy Pintello

	15-06-2001 02:09									#85
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

hey wes!

i'm happy to say i've had the ai send armies and even fleets against me today

deity is still a bit easy on a normal map with 8 civs though. perhaps less civs will do the trick



suggestion: how about bringing back the "conquer a city and get an enemy's advance" feature?

	15-06-2001 03:00									#86
	Suffering from ads?

I do miss the "get an advance with conquering city". Sometimes too powerful, but maybe a 50% chance instead would be nice, if it's even possible.

	15-06-2001 06:19									#87
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

In all the games I've played the AIs will eventually expand to fill up all available space if you let them. Well beyond ten cities though I never actually counted them. I have seen them build urban planners but no sea engineers probably because I haven't taken a game that far.

The game does seem to slow down around the Ind Age or Modern Age. I had one game where I had nothing to do but build caravans that I didn't need. This is before you get infrastructure or capitalization. I think I got to over 200. My suggestion for the advances is: starting with the renaissance age, make all the advances that don't give you anything (lead to other advances only) cost 50% less. Maybe reduce the others by 10% to 15%. I think 50% for all is too much though I've never taken a game past the Info Age. It didn't appear that I was going to finish the tech tree in that one and I was putting max effort into science.

I think changing the pikemen to non-slavers is a good idea.

I also thought it sucked that there weren't any ocean going vessels for a long time but if you go by the dates I think it works out right. I say leave the ships as is. Just don't play on island maps or adjust the settings individually if you don't like it

I found a problem with the elites. Two civs got the Gunpowder elites in the same game. I saved the game if anyone wants a look. I've only seen it this one time.

I've been thinking that maybe there should be a limit on the number of elites a civ can get. Maybe 2. I've had several games where one civ gets 3 and it just seems unfair. Wahh wahh wahh.

Other unit concerns. The Elite Longbowman doesn't seem to give any advantage over the siege engine. I got those once and since they cost the same to support I'd rather have siege engines since they bombard and have 30 vs 25 for the longbowman. I don't see any reason to build those elites.

The bandit horsemen should be obsolete with feudalism instead of cavalry tactics. I've only had them twice but they seem to get obsolete too quickly. I only had time to build 9 once when I hit a hut and got the advance to obsolete them.

	15-06-2001 09:51									#88
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Build manager or what is that. I mean the screen where you can select what to build. Some helptexts about units, buildings and wonders are still wrong in that window. Check for example coracle.

That helptext is the easiest and fastest to read so in my opinion it would be very good to have all important information in that window. I mean all special abilities, number informations that are not shown in unit list. Etc.

I hope that I have the correct version

Last edited by janilxx on 15-06-2001 at 09:57

	15-06-2001 14:56									#89
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I have encountered a problem with sea bombard now...
It doesn't work! at all.
I was annoyed at first that I couldn't bombard other ships with Ship of the lion or ironclads. I thought, oh well, prolly something they changed. Destroyers, no bombard there either... hmm..
When I got to battle ships I definately thought something was wrong that ships, if any, should be able to bombarb other ships, this was not the case.

So I turend cheatmode on, added every unit that I knew could bombarb before the mod, i.e, dreadnaught, plasma destroyer etc.
None could bombard,... all I got was still a crossed over circle each time I tried... I do hope this is not intentional... is it?

	15-06-2001 19:32									#90
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Good posts here guys.

Mark, I have been playing around with the conquest advances setting, and I do not think that it works. It was set to 0.5, and for the last update I changed it to 25.0, thinking that maybe there was a mix-up with the decimal system they used.
Has anyone gotten an advance when they conquered a city?
I do not think that this function works.

Radiacal made some good points about the Elite units. Once I got to looking at them with his points in mind, I ended up making several changes.
I have lowered the cost of the Bandit Horseman, and both the cost and upkeep of the War Elephant. I went in to give the Elephants the flanking ability and saw that they already had it! I also changed their obsolete advances to Flintlock and Feudalism, respectively.
I gave the Longbowman increased defensive stats ala the Bowman, so they are a more complete field unit, and raised their ranged attack to higher than that of the Siege Engine's, since as you pointed out they cannot bombard. I think that they are now one of the game's potentially dominating units.

I have also given the slaving ability to Chariots and taken it from Pikemen, since the AIs seem to build only Chariots and never Light Cavalry.

Jani, I understand what you mean now. The stats you refer to are the GL's summary section, which I thought was not even used in the game. I corrected this section for many of the units anyway, just in case it was used somewhere, but as you have shown it was not corrected for everything. I will try to go in sometime and correct this for everything else.

Apollon, re-read the naval section of the Main readme.

In my current game, I just changed from Republic to Democracy, and saw everything go down for me. I realized that I had not taken some things into account when I was setting up the government stats, and found that it was the wages, rations and workday changes that occurred when you entered the modern-age governments.
I have now changed the settings for Democracy and some of the other govs. I will play the game some more to try and get the advances and gov stats to work right, then I will post the next update, probably some time this weekend.