28-06-2001 01:13									#151
	Lost Trade Routes Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

(1) My only complaint about the MedMod is that horrible rifleman sprite.

(2) I'm in the late modern age, and have dusted my only real competetor after a long hard war. BUT, whenever I activate a trade route with the second most powerful civ, the route disappears after I hit end turn. They do not have an embargo against me, and I've noticed that I cannot cancel trade routes from foriegn cites to my cities. WHy is this happening? Is it a bug? Is the other civ able to cancel routes in order to hamper my growth? What gives? Anyone?

	28-06-2001 09:46									#152
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I had the same thing happen to me with the trade routes in my last game. The only thing I can figure is that the AI is enbargoing you, and there is a bug so that it doesn't show up on the diplomacy screen. I ended up making routes with another civ in my game.

Other than the Rifleman sprite, you like the other 99.9999 percent of the mod, right?

I didn't realize that revolting cities lost all their defensive units. I may have to raise the cost back to the original level. Does the cost seem too low now?

	28-06-2001 10:04									#153
	Support Apolyton

I hate to be a spoil sport here but the changes that have been made do not address the fundamental problem with CTP2. I have played the Med Mod about a dozen times now up to circa 1500 AD. I gave up in each of them from just plain boredom. The AI is totally and absolutely passive. In CTP1 being next door to, say, the Greeks was guaranteed to give your military skills a good workout. In CTP2 nothing happens. In desperation I tried attacking the AI a few times but no sooner had a war started than they were all begging for peace. Sorry, but this is simply not interesting.

	28-06-2001 12:18									#154
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by WesW I didn't realize that revolting cities lost all their defensive units. I may have to raise the cost back to the original level. Does the cost seem too low now?

Cost of what? Cost of Incite revolution. It costed me about 4700 to incite revolution in city with size 9(I do not know the happiness level). At least when I checked my money before incite revolution(It was maybe just before or few turns before when I checked my money) there were about 4700 moneypieces and after incite I had just 0(zero) money.

I think that about 5000 moneypieces is quite low for a city??? But maybe that price is just fine if we could have few(or more) units left in the city when it revolts so that it would not be so easy to capture.

Could we get some kind of list where we could check how much it will cost to incite revolution in city. Like:

size happiness cost
1 73 50
1 75 100
1 77 200
2 73 500
2 75 800
...

	28-06-2001 12:55									#155
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: I had the same thing happen to me with the trade routes in my last game. The only thing I can figure is that the AI is enbargoing you, and there is a bug so that it doesn't show up on the diplomacy screen. I ended up making routes with another civ in my game.

No Wes, I think you are wrong.
1. Why it happens in post-modern age?
2. Why with all civs (I cannot trade with anyone else, although every civ admire me)?
3. I made a trade pact with Arabians, next turn my route was broken again, but trade pact was still active!

BTW, why when I declare an embargo to one country I can make a trade route with this country?

ucel

	28-06-2001 13:39									#156
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Wes, are troop ships supposed to attack cities?

In a game I am playing with the latest update I have just reached the modern age. I am at war with the Vikings who are placed on a island across from my continent.

Now they have started attacking my cities with troop ships. Why they go on these suicide missions I don't know.

I have seen this happen sometimes with other kinds of ships too. Sad to see the AI waste resources like this, so I hope you can fix it.

No other bugs found so far. Good work.

Henrik

	28-06-2001 15:25									#157
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Lou Wigman The AI is totally and absolutely passive. In CTP1 being next door to, say, the Greeks was guaranteed to give your military skills a good workout. In CTP2 nothing happens. In desperation I tried attacking the AI a few times but no sooner had a war started than they were all begging for peace. Sorry, but this is simply not interesting.

Lou,

What difficulty level do you play on? I have a theory about this.

Peter

	28-06-2001 18:19									#158
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The AI was aggressive with me at Impossible and highest level of barbians. Just to add to your poll, Peter.

	28-06-2001 22:10									#159
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Other than the rifleman sprite? The game kicks ass! I had unistalled the damn thing and written it off as a loss. Now I can't stop playing.

And yes, it seems only one civ at a time pulls that dropping trade routes crap, so who knows. I just trade with others.

	29-06-2001 11:19									#160
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Mister Pleasant, can I quote you on that?

Lou, give the game another try with the latest text update. I feel sure that you will find that the militaristic AIs now act as you would expect them to act. Passivity was a problem up until a few weeks ago, but I think we finally have that problem licked. Dale's new personality changing trigger should further spice things up.

Dane, Troop Ships can't attack or bombard anything, so it is very strange that the AI would send them to attack you. Are you sure they are not trying to land troops next to your city?

As far as dropping the trade routes, I think this is a form of passive resistance by the AIs. When you have pulled ahead of everyone else by a significant margin, they are trying to hinder you in a non-military fashion.
I may be wrong about this, but I have a feeling I am not, and if true it would actually be a compliment to the designers of this feature.

Btw, does anyone else find the animated smiles to the left of the reply screen distracting?

	29-06-2001 13:12									#161
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by WesW Dane, Troop Ships can't attack or bombard anything, so it is very strange that the AI would send them to attack you. Are you sure they are not trying to land troops next to your city?

Yes, they do infact attack my cities and so does ironclads and ship of the lines. I am sure of that . They always lose so I think they should not have this abillity (If they do infact have that ability. )

I have not seen this in any other games I have played so it is very strange. I will do some more testing on this when I resume my game. If no one else has seen this happen chances are something has just gone crazy with my game.

Henrik

	29-06-2001 13:49									#162
	Medieval Mod Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I bought ctp couple years ago. I downloaded wes's old mod for it. It was cool then i bought ctp2. I got that mod as well. I think a big slap on the back for wes fpr all the work he has done is in order.

	29-06-2001 14:47									#163
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by WesW Btw, does anyone else find the animated smiles to the left of the reply screen distracting?

Nope(at least not me). It is actually ok that those animated smilies are in reply page. But if there will be many of them in messages I would like to turn smilies off.

	29-06-2001 18:23									#164
	How to Threaten War? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Am still playing my very first game of CTP (CTP2 MM2 minus the most recent MM2 update), so forgive my ignorance.

Anyway, Dale suggested that I threaten England in order to "persuade" them to change their regard to a more positive one (they are now "irked" at my diplomatic proposals and they display a "sad" icon and have done so for the last 73 turns regardless of my attempts to improve their regard -- offering 100 gold each turn, holding a diplomatic reception, etc.).

However, I couldn't find any "threaten" option in the Diplomacy Manager. Only "request, offer, and treaties/pacts" or Declare War or Embargo.

I don't want to actually declare war. I just want to threaten England with the possibility of war. Is that possible?

	29-06-2001 19:56									#165
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Demand some gold, or a city, and if they decline, then you get an option to threaten them.

	29-06-2001 20:52									#166
	Got spare money?

I also had problems with my trade routes being dropped. I found that in a few cases the city was captured by another civ, but that wasn't the cause of all the drops. At some point I just changed all the routes to my own cities so I wouldn't have to check each turn for dropped routes. They give you a message if another civs route to you is dropped but you need it when your route is dropped. I don't care about the other civ.

I also had what I thought was a piracy problem. I had trade pacts and peace treaties with 3 civs. One or two started pirating my routes. I asked them to stop and threatened with war when they refused and then they said okay, they'd stop. One of them would pirate me again the very next turn. This happened turn after turn, finally I took most of their cities. I think what they were doing was breaking the agreement since another civ actually stopped and the no piracy icon stayed. No piracy agreements are supposed to last 5 turns (based on the files anyway) but when I agreed not to pirate another civ the icon stayed there for at least 80 turns. I had another civ ask for a cease fire, I said only if they stop piracy, they said okay and pirated me that same turn.

This was all in a game that I took into the 2100s. I was getting advances every 3 or 4 turns but I realized I wouldn't make it to the end so I've made some changes to the files to try to be able to still get a decent game on impossible but finish the tech tree unless one of the other civs conquers me.

I'm still rarely attacked by anything other than barbarians. The only time it appears another civ will attack one of my cities is if I leave one defender there. I take that back. I did have a stack of 7 siege engines suicide bombard one of my cities. It seems like the AI is using too many ranged units in their cities and I'm not sure why but later in the game a lot of times they will have one culverin or nothing at all for defense. I've made some changes to try to stop that from happening and will let you know how they work.

Still trying for Samurai's.

	30-06-2001 00:17									#167
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Wes, first I must compliment you on the improvements your Medieval Mod makes to the game. You have the best units and improvements of ctp1 and 2 nicely mixed and have definitely improved the AI's gameplay. I have never been so harassed with special units other than slavers. And it's nice to be on an equal footing growth-wise with the AI's now so I don't have to deal with size 9+ cities when my largest is only 5. The increased realism was exactly what ctp2 was lacking before.

However, (and this is a significant historical and practical detail) I think your changes to the differences between technologies in combat need some fine tuning: I am finding the some older units are still over-powering when facing more technologically advanced units that should have a decisive advantage.

Not being much of a programmer, I was wondering if there is a fairly simple change or series of changes that can tweak this combat setting for the differences in technologies in general or for specific units?

The reason for this is I have my first MM2 game on the go where I have taken 3 of the 4 enemy cities on my continent and the AI has one size 6 city left. It has 10 siege engines and two heavy swordsman defending. The army I tried to attack with had 8 culverins and 4 pike men. I used a spy to check the defences out and wasn't too worried when I saw all of the siege engines. The last time I checked, even primitive culverins should be able to out-range and out-shoot a trebuchet.

In the AI's turn, it naturally bombarded my army but the result was the demise of all but two of the pikemen ( and a militia spearman could have knocked them both off). Needless to say I was surprised because I had earlier used 6 siege engines to help defend one of my own cities and they never inflicted a single casualty on the enemy heavy swordsmen and bowmen when used to bombard the AI's army.

I know from the readme's that one of the changes in the mod was the effectiveness against lesser technologies and I have seen it work very nicely when the AI got the technologies to use heavy swordsmen and bowman vs phalanx and archers. It seems that the siege engine is over-powering in this situation. You try and hit a moving target with a trebuchet at range. Especially when you can see the shot coming. Better to use a slingshot.

On a seperate tangent, being a history buff , I would like to contribute to some of the detail you have added to the game. I can provide some information to put in updates to the Great Library. I have found a picture of a culverin c.1520 and some specs to go with it below:

 Lenght from button of cascable to face of muzzle - 302 cm
 Lenght from base ring to face of muzzle - 284 cm
 Lenght from base ring to axe of trunnions - 123 cm
 Trunnions - diameter 8,4 cm
 Distance from trunnionface to trunnionface - 34 cm
 Lenght of trunnions - 7 cm
 Cylinder, bore - diameter 7,5 cm.

That would make a hell of an impression on a trebuchet crew from the 1300's.

Please let me know what sort of formatting the information would need to be usable in the GL database.

Last edited by Gen.Dragolen on 30-06-2001 at 02:13

	30-06-2001 11:54									#168
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Thanks for the compliments, General.
I spent every night for a week working on the unit progressions and their stats. There are a lot of variables to factor into the equations. Even if you have a tech advantage, it is still hard to take properly defended cities, especially if they have all available defensive fortifications (Castles, Bastions, etc.). If you give Culverins a huge advantage over the previous siege weapon, then you create what Luke Loh called the "race to tank" dilemma in Ctp1. When that game came out, the Tank was so powerful that the first civ to get it could overrun everyone else, or everyone who didn't build masses of Tanks to defend themselves.
It may not be historically accurate to have Siege Engines mounting a winnable defense versus Culverins, but in this instance gameplay considerations have to have first priority. If real life was like Ctp, and you gave the Culverin the ability to attack lesser units with inpunity, the Turks would have swept through Vienna and the rest of Europe with ease.
Thanks for the offer of the pic and stats, but I just use the pics and write-up which came with the game, since the unit is the same except in name.

Dane, I have removed the ranged attack from Troop Ships. Hopefully this will do the trick. Ironclads and SotL's can bombard land, which is as it should be in most everyone's opinion.
You can open up MM2_units.txt, find the troop_ship, and make the change to the ZBRangeAttack line yourself if you want to test its effects yourself.

This is for everyone:
When you bombard a city with multiple units, your attacks fall on random units in the city. Terrain and defensive structures are taken into account when figuring up damage. I do not know exactly how this works, but it does. Sometimes a single hit can take out a unit with low hitpoints, like a ranged unit. Usually it takes multiple hits, though. So, just because you don't see any units killed in the other guy's stack, that does not mean that you did not damage his units.
Once you finish bombarding with all your units, the other side gets to counter-bombard with all their units with this ability. These attacks fall on random units in your stack, again with any terrain modifiers taken into account.
If you have a balanced stack, and the defender is weighted heavily towards ranged units, then I would recommend not bombarding and to just launch your assault, since his counter-bombard could be devastating.

Before attacking, check the GL and spy the city out to check for defensive structures, then figure up whether to attack or not. Remember that flanking units act like artillery when not in hand-to-hand combat.

I see people posting in with different things they have experienced that seem like weaknesses, but I think that much of this is just the effect of a game with a lot of replay value. I am not discouraging anyone in any way from posting, since that is the only way to know what actually needs to be worked on. However, if you are lurking and deciding whether the mod is worth getting, don't let sporadic reports discourage you. It is when everyone starts saying the same thing that the red flags go up for me.

	30-06-2001 20:07									#169
	Put an end to popups!

I have a few things to repot:

I'm using the 27th text version and still after Renaissance age my tech is about 50 to 100 years behind history (I'm in 1981 now)

There's a strange thing going on. I can't find the GL entry for the "Stadium" and it doesn't become available with telegraph but much later. Now that I can choose to build Stadium every time I give new construction orders (not necessarily stadium) the game crashes and says something like stadium.tga not found. Is that a problem with my download or something else? If it's my DL do I need to reinstall modswapper or are the portions enough?

Although I been the first one having researched advances needed to build elite units I didn't see even one in the build list, I also didn't get the message that I could build them. Then when the AI discovers the same advance he can. I wasn't able to build even one elite unit (and I didn't get the for free either if that is the case) so far (it's 1981 as stated above). What's wrong with that?

I think too that the rifle man looks too modern I expected a sprite looking like a soldier in the American Civil War or something like that. Weren't repeating rifles invented around that time?

PS: I know you have heard that many times now, but I'm really glad you guys made that mod, CTP2 is finally worth playing. Thank you very much.

Last edited by Starfighter08 on 30-06-2001 at 23:15

	30-06-2001 23:42									#170
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Starfighter, I think there is something wrong with your download, or else you did not use modswapper to update your GL. Check out the GL when you get it up, and you will see there are some pretty stiff building preqs before you can build a Stadium. Stadiums are not as cost-effective as earlier buildings, so you should only build them after you have Basilicas, Movie Theaters, Public Parks, etc.
Check out the Med charts' Improve page for a good appendix of everything.

As to the Elite units, go back and read the Main readme entry or the GL concept. You have a chance of gaining a unit, if it has not already been given to someone else, when you get the enabling advance. There is nothing special about being the first civ to get the advance, and certainly no quarantee that you will get any of them, though that is pretty rare if you are competitive scientifically.
If you are a hundred years behind the timeline, you need to build a lot of trade posts, ports and mines.

I would like for the Rifleman sprite to be based upon a WWI infantry unit, but there is no sprite available. The unit should become available about the 1880's to coincide with the German Mauser bolt-action rifle.

It never hurts to hear that someone enjoys the mod.

	01-07-2001 00:09									#171
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by WesW Starfighter, I think there is something wrong with your download, or else you did not use modswapper to update your GL.

Strange thing is I installed from scratch before starting the game I spoke of. How do you use modswapper to update GL?

Hurrah, got it working. The stadium.tga was in the text file and for some reason it didn't copy completely.

	01-07-2001 21:51									#172
	In the interest of gameplay Inflate your Upload Space

Wes,

I see your point. It also shows that tactics that worked in the original CTP2 won't work as well with the MMod.

I replayed the battle and this time instead of making one stack and trying to use them to bombard the target en masse, I used 4 seperate groups and the AI split his fire. The result was only about 5 units out of the 20 or so conducting the siege. This is right out of history where you had to surrond a city and besiege it for a while.

And thank you for the explanation of the battery/counter-battery resolution. Much better than the original version. A little costlier in terms of units, but better.

I have one question though: is there any way to free slaves in your own cities before the Emmancipation Act ? I had one city that had as many slaves as citizens and would have loved to free them to avoid a rebellion. Had one other city (with only a few slaves) rebel when I pulled most of the garrison to assualt a nearby AI city. That was an most unwelcome surprise (but a great one for gameplay) that let the AI city survive for another 50 years or so.

Now I have to check out the new text file and see how it works.

Thanks.

	01-07-2001 23:21									#173
	Full PM-box? Change here!

There is an option to free the slaves in a newly captured city. Maybe you could use slic or a unit to mimic that, but I think it would be too easy to capture slaves and then free them. No consequences for your actions at war.

	02-07-2001 11:08									#174
	Slavers Code Trigger Not Working? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

In 1801 C.E., an English Zulu Warrior marched up next to my American noble, who had just given a dinner party at Liverpool. This freaked me out somewhat because I thought that all military units that had the Slaver ability would be disbanded on turn 400 (1800 C.E.). At least, that's what I understand Wes's remark under "Slavers code" in his MM2 Triggers Readme file to mean:

"Slavers code: This trigger disbands all units with the victory enslavement ability on turn 400 (1800 AD)."

If not, then what does "victory enslavement ability" mean?

P.S. I later saw an English Zulu Warrior near an English city in 1823 C.E.

Perhaps the slavers code trigger doesn't apply to elite units. What's the scoop, Wes? Thanks!

	02-07-2001 11:25									#175
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: defensive fortifications (Castles, Bastions, etc.)

I have not tested or played a lot lately but I have to say that I have NOT ever had a need to build castles or bastions. Have you? Any of you? I have mostly played only to the year 1500AD and actually I have not ever had a game that AI would attack against me so that I would need castles or bastions.

My vacation starts in this friday and I will copy all files again and try that. Maybe some of my updates has failed and I would have "better" AI after that?

	02-07-2001 13:39									#176
	Re: In the interest of gameplay Support Apolyton

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen

I have one question though: is there any way to free slaves in your own cities before the Emmancipation Act ?
[END QUOTE]

I tried to use an abolitionist to free the slaves in my cities, but it didn't work. The "raised arms" icon went up over the cities, but the slaves remained.

However, it all worked out OK. I was the one that created the Emancipation Act wonder, and it took care of the problem without any revolt.

By the way, what do you have to do to get quoted material to appear in blue and in "quote format"?

	02-07-2001 14:48									#177
	Re: Re: In the interest of gameplay Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen By the way, what do you have to do to get quoted material to appear in blue and in "quote format"?

Use image on right hand side on top of message you want to quote

	02-07-2001 17:57									#178
	Re: Re: In the interest of gameplay Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by StarGazer By the way, what do you have to do to get quoted material to appear in blue and in "quote format"?

The other possibilty would typing it by hand the end quote tag looks like [/QUOTE]

-Martin

	02-07-2001 21:41									#179
	Re: Re: Re: In the interest of gameplay Tired of ads?

[/QUOTE] Originally posted by janilxx


Use image on right hand side on top of message you want to quote [/QUOTE]

When I click on the "reply with quote" image, it does not put a / before the initial [QUOTE]. Is this a bug, or do I need to do something else to make it work? For this reply, I typed in the / mark myself, so let's see how it turns out.

Well, judging from the Preview, even typing in the / mark does not make it work. Any other suggestions?

	02-07-2001 22:57									#180
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Stargazer, in order to quote something you have to have a beginning tag and an ending tag. The ending tag looks like this (/QUOTE) The beginning tag looks like this (quote) ( I replaced the brackets with parenthesis so you can see exactly what I would have typed.Just replace the parenthesis on the tags to brackets) So to quote this text: Hello I would go (QUOTE)Hello(/QUOTE) So it would look like this :

quote: Hello