03-07-2001 11:56									#61
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Whilst not wanting to draw attention to myself as a trouble maker, it has often astounded me the inconsistency that some people tend to get treated with.. I too have seen some people use Hate Messages with no warnig nor apparent penalty. This sort of thing then obviously encourages others to do the same, thinking they too can get away with it and even ignore warnings. I am not advocating that, I for one listen when I am told by Admin/Mods to shut up , as I realsie this isnt a public service they running buy a private website, its like going into someone elses home.

All I say is that lets get some consistency guys and start warning/banning all those using HATE messages, not just the ones spreading HATE against the gays community. They can stand up for themselves without mods/admins doing it for them.

	04-07-2001 01:08									#62
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Free Civnation

we will never forget

and yah I think he is a DL

Jon Miller

	04-07-2001 01:17									#63
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Don't worry. They'll free him...in about two weeks.

	04-07-2001 18:38									#64
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As he was only a DL he reaally isnt banned !!!

	04-07-2001 19:06									#65
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So whose DL was he? Isn't it possible for the moderators to find that out?

	04-07-2001 19:17									#66
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They never reveal what they know or dont know,,

	04-07-2001 19:53									#67
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quote: CivNation2001: THE LORD JESUS CHRIST CONDEMNS ALL UNREPENTANT HOMOSEXUALS WHO REFUSE TO SUBMIT TO HIM AND FIGHT THEIR SIN, AND WHO DESPISE HIS NAME

this is not a hatepost.
Eventhough the guy that posted it is really sick and I'm happy he's gone, I don't think there's a valuable argument to ban him.

Of course there's a valuable argument, since this is a private msgboard....... but....

CivNation believes that Jesus condemns all unrepentant homosexuals (not all homosexuals) who refuse to fight their sin AND who despite his name.

If I scroll through the threads I see much more anti-gay talk.
It happens often that a post is rated in gayness by other people.
Look at what eyes wrote........

Not even to talk about how CivNation got much hate and anti-christian discrimination over him !

MarkG, I've had this debate with you after black saturday,
and in fact we're at the same place again. You're willing to talk about a descision, but you guys won't turn a decision back.
A good leader is one that admits he has made a mistake.

Conclusion, CivNation is really sick and it's good that he's banned, but in fact not on legal / good reasons.
And if you ban people for reasons like that, start to ban all the other people that say things ways worse then the words of CN.

CyberShy

	04-07-2001 20:14									#68
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That's a very subjective judgement.

Condemning all homosexuals to Hell is definitely quite hateful, regardless of who is doing such condemning. Not only that this being also condemns all who dispises his name to Hell. My that's quite heavyhanded if you ask me.

It's like saying that Hitler believed that all Jews should be killed, and somebody quote him on it to support his own views.

That seems to be hateful to me.

	04-07-2001 20:16									#69
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I think civnations understanding of the bible is also a little misplaced .. The bible makes it quite clear you cannot fight your sin.... We are all basically evil and need a saviour to prevent us having to pay for our sins, which is what HE did !!...


but the bible does say a man laying with a man is wrong.... but no more wrong than being a liar, a thief , a person using the lords name in vain...

So lets not judge one person worse than another, not by bible standards anyway, it says we all stink and deserve to die .....

	04-07-2001 20:25									#70
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Rasputin, I completele agree with you.
I don't agree with CN at all.

[quote]Condemning all homosexuals to Hell is definitely quite hateful, regardless of who is doing such condemning. Not only that this being also condemns all who dispises his name to Hell. My that's quite heavyhanded if you ask me.[/quotes]

It's not really hatefull. I believe that everyone that doesn't accepts Jesus as his saviour will have to spend the rest of eternity without God as well.
There's no hate at all against those, it's just what I believe.

CN believes homosexuality is a sin.
Something that isn't a very extremistic view, since a big part of the people on earth thinks the same way. He's been banned because of he speaks out his believe ?

CyberShy

	04-07-2001 20:31									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger It's like saying that Hitler believed that all Jews should be killed, and somebody quote him on it to support his own views. That seems to be hateful to me.

Hitlers certainly wasnt firs to have anti semetic ideas, many jews killed all over the world by many other nations....

But back to the topic....

Civnation was reaaly banned for testing out the Mods/Admins they asked him to stop and he didnt.. it has little to do with his actuall statemnts ...

	04-07-2001 20:36									#72
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quote: Civnation was reaaly banned for testing out the Mods/Admins they asked him to stop and he didnt.. it has little to do with his actuall statemnts ...

No, I think MING didn't understand the position of CN at that moment.
EVERYONE was against him, shouting at him how stupid he was, insulting him etc. etc. etc.
His ideas were completely shot down by everyone.
This made his complete identity to become silly.

Now even one of the mods came into the thread, and this mod only warned CN !
CivNation was a cat in problems, and couldn't do anything but post in non-offensive, non-insulting language his opinion, to defend it against everyone that's against him.

That's acomplete normal way of reacting by people that are attacked form all sides.

If he would have been testing MING, his post would've been more offensive, or near the border. In that case he wouldn't have posted his opinion in these clear, non-offensive and legal words.

And THAT's the problem, he's not banned for insulting, hate post etc. etc. (he said 'faggot' once, which isn't a valid reason to ban, since he should've have done it again then)
he's been banned for voicing his believe.

CyberShy

	04-07-2001 20:46									#73
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perhpas his banning will make him relaise this is just a forum its not real life, there is a world out there, he wasnt being attacked from all sides, people were just typing messages...

Too many KIDS take all this too seriuosly....

	04-07-2001 20:54									#74
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I agree with Cybershy

Jon Miller

	04-07-2001 21:04									#75
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straigtht to the point and no meaningless waffle hey jon

	05-07-2001 20:13									#76
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Well Jon, the thing is Civvie built up his reputation as a Stone Deaf, sombody who's completely impervious to well contructed arguments and logic. So what's people to do other than laugh or yell at him?

	05-07-2001 20:22									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Well Jon, the thing is Civvie built up his reputation as a Stone Deaf, sombody who's completely impervious to well contructed arguments and logic. So what's people to do other than laugh or yell at him?

Yah he was hilarious wasn't he????

I would make up an DL like him but for the atheist side but you already have Giancarlo.

Jon Miller

	05-07-2001 21:40									#78
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It seems that whenever someone gets banned, a bandwagon drums up support to cry out against the dastardly admins. How could they?! What flimsy justification! Altho some have been justifiable, and others not, it seems the real problem is consistency. There are some posters who regularly get away with far worse than others who get banned, but receive nary a tap on the knuckles. An even application across the board would probably lessen the outcry.

	05-07-2001 22:53									#79
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From the FAQ

XVI) So, to be sure, what will most probably mean the disablement of my login?
Double Log Ons...
Massive spamming in a thread
Multiple identical comments posted in many different threads.
Hate Threads... Or seriously hateful posts
Massive Flaming
Behaviour which is considered distruptive to this site.
No explicit sexual discussion allowed
<b>Doing anything after an Admin or Mod tells you not to do it.</b>
Usually, common sense is the rule of how we want things to work here.

That is why he was banned.

	05-07-2001 23:45									#80
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I don't know why you people are whinning about Civvie's ban. He's already back under the name "DefensorFidei." Check out the "Problems with Evolution" thread if you don't believe me.

	05-07-2001 23:59									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader From the FAQ XVI) So, to be sure, what will most probably mean the disablement of my login? Double Log Ons... Massive spamming in a thread Multiple identical comments posted in many different threads. Hate Threads... Or seriously hateful posts Massive Flaming Behaviour which is considered distruptive to this site. No explicit sexual discussion allowed <b>Doing anything after an Admin or Mod tells you not to do it.</b> Usually, common sense is the rule of how we want things to work here. That is why he was banned.

how bout the DL issue why arent people being banned for having KNOWN DLs ???

	06-07-2001 00:01									#82
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Yah

sometimes I think I must be an MikeH DL

Jon Miller

	06-07-2001 00:15									#83
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XVI) So, to be sure, what will most <b>probably</b> mean the disablement of my login?

Ultimately the mods have and use their own judgement. Any infraction of the rules might be punished, and may not. It depends who's on and what kind of mood they are in. If you don't want to get banned, don't break the rules, it's pretty easy to do.

If you want to break the rules you take your chances.

	06-07-2001 00:25									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq It seems that whenever someone gets banned, a bandwagon drums up support to cry out against the dastardly admins. How could they?! What flimsy justification! Altho some have been justifiable, and others not, it seems the real problem is consistency. There are some posters who regularly get away with far worse than others who get banned, but receive nary a tap on the knuckles. An even application across the board would probably lessen the outcry.

I agree.

As I stated before, it's called political correctness. Not much we can do about it - only sometimes it's so obvious that it backfires on the mods themselves.

They ought to think about these instances for a little more than ten seconds before banning. Gut reactions are seldomly to be trusted when dealing with real flesh and blood posters.

	06-07-2001 00:28									#85
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well i feel that soemtimes it is the mods/admins lack of action that breeds more of this sort of stuff, some people can get away with it, whilst others cant.....

	06-07-2001 01:24									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq There are some posters who regularly get away with far worse than others who get banned, but receive nary a tap on the knuckles.

i wish people who have such opinions to do something about it when it happens(if it happens). commenting about something wrong long after it happened when you have done nothing about it, is rather disheartening

	06-07-2001 02:17									#87
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Good point MarkG. I think everybody assumes that we read EVERY word typed on these forums. That is far from reality. Many of the times, we are responding to complaints. If somebody doesn't complain, we may NEVER see it. There is just far too much activity on these forums for every word to be read on a timely basis. In some cases, if a thread drops off the first page within a 5 or 6 hour period, you can probably bet none of the mods may have even read it

	06-07-2001 02:20									#88
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Hey everyone-

Did you just realize that CivNation2001 is my DL... he even says so, with his own DL, (DefensorFaith)

What makes this complicated is that I am Giant_Squid's DL

	06-07-2001 02:22									#89
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You can't be Squids DL

he said only I was

sniff

Jon Miller

	06-07-2001 03:26									#90
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Hold on, he's my DL, that I registered early in preparation for this login