06-07-2001 02:49									#1
	Language Petition Suffering from ads?

About the off-topic... In a number of threads in the off-topic and this topic, the level of language is becoming quite offensive:
Examples:

The "Why Was Civnation Banned" section in Apolyton/Community... several people were using 'evil' cursewords in it, I find that quite offensive.

In various places in the off-topic, such as the "hardman" thread- several 'words' came up... (PS however I do know about the "hardman" joke- it is just that that particular thread illustrates the level of language that is happening in the OT)

Could the Moderators please enforce people not to say certain words that count as cursewords and are offensive.

Sometimes I visit Apolyton at a public site and WOULD RATHER NOT have a librarian looking over my shoulder reading those types of words and language when I am reading a legitamate thread.

Also, there has been some incidents of bad languange (not just #**# you) with the 'evil' words ***ed out, but with the real word present.

I do not appreciate this foul language.

Mark,Dan,Ming,et. al. please make sure that the usage of foul language is kept to a minimum. Thanks!

-DarkCloud

	06-07-2001 02:56									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I think I can safely predict the direction that this thread is going to take....

	06-07-2001 05:02									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

RUN FOR COVER! It's a puritan strike!

Don't worry, he is just irritable as CGN is down and he has no one to ban. Hell, he even closed one of my threads over there, almost sparking an interforum war. Just one thread in my forum and it would have been *WHAM*

	06-07-2001 08:24									#4
	Got spare money?

That's a standard HARDMAN saying so it's hard to mention him without saying that.

At any rate the nasty cuss words are censored and most people have more sense than trying to get around the autocensor.

	06-07-2001 10:46									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hmm... language petition... "Petition to make Finnish the second official language of Apolyton"...

	06-07-2001 12:02									#6
	Tired of ads?

I was browsing through the posts in work, and a jewish person just happened to pass behind me when the avatar of GianCarlo was on screen...

	06-07-2001 12:44									#7
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I was browsing through the posts in work, and a jewish person just happened to pass behind me when the avatar of GianCarlo was on screen...

Then you should probably use the 'light version' of the site at work. It doesn't show the avatars.

	06-07-2001 13:24									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The light version does show avatars, but you can turn them off in the control panel.

	06-07-2001 13:24									#9
	Support Apolyton

That's just a non-issue. I don't think having the image of Rommel or even Hitler displayed on your browser means a thing.

	06-07-2001 13:40									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I don't think there is a problem. I am well known in my job for my ideas which have nothing to do with GianCarlo's avatar.
And I'm a friend with that person so it's ok.

Still turning off the vatars I will do because that way Apolyton will look more... scientific and work related

	06-07-2001 16:21									#11
	Got spare money?

*Threadjack complete*

DC, some of us are not quite so bothered about naughty words. They are just that, words, noises. Why do you find them so offensive? Indoctrination? The more you hear them, the more hardened to them you will become...so don't worry...

	06-07-2001 17:28									#12
	Put an end to popups!

PH, that's one of the worst justifications I've ever heard. You could say the same about observing children starving to death or totalitarian regimes conducting genocide. Numerous wrongs don't make any rights for all I know.

I agree with the message of DarkCloud's post although I don't percieve it as big a problem as he does - but his observation is correct and I for one respect it...

	06-07-2001 19:18									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think that tolerance is the key word here. On a forum with this many posters, representing a large number of different social backgrounds and beliefs, there is bound to be friction on certain issues, in this case bad language. The best thing you can do is to tolerate such things, or if you find them that offensive, ignore them altogether. You do have a choice as to whether you look at them or not; no-one is forcing you to.

Last edited by Paul Hanson on 06-07-2001 at 19:42

	07-07-2001 00:43									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I do not appreciate foul language... in real life or on the internet.

However I will accept, to a point language that someone censors

Example: "shut the #*#* up"
However, its context is still angry... If posts like this happened a lot from one poster, without that poster ever saying (sorry I'm having a bad day) or (I'm just angry at you for that post- I wish we could see eye to eye later) then that poster should be warned.

I do my best not to look at the words- but they have been coming across in more parts of the forum that I read... they have even come in 'nice' threads where someone says "that's a real ****** idea." or something of that sort (without the ***'s)

	07-07-2001 02:13									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

DarkCloud:

We have done a considerable amount of work in filtering out words that are considered "across the board" or offensive. Unfortunately, there are ways that people can get around those methods.

We are always looking for ways to improve technically to eliminate the use of offensive language while not cracking down excessively on free speech -- it is a fine line and not one that can be drawn to any kind of consensus. We monitor the forums as diligently as possible, but we may miss something.

My recommendations are as follows, and I'm sure Markos and the rest of the ACS staff would agree me: if you are concerned about the level of profanity in the Off-Topic forum and are accessing the site from a local library, be diligent in choosing threads based on subject line. If you find a thread that you find particular offensive, email us and we will look into it privately.

-------------------
Dan; Apolyton CS

	07-07-2001 12:06									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DanQ DarkCloud: We have done a considerable amount of work in filtering out words that are considered "across the board" or offensive. Unfortunately, there are ways that people can get around those methods.

So why don't you make your methods more sophisticated?

How hard is it to convert all A to Z and a to z to the real char before the censor is activated?

	07-07-2001 13:09									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Gramphos How hard is it to convert all A to Z and a to z to the real char before the censor is activated?

care to explain that a bit more?

	07-07-2001 13:31									#18
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Can the mods also avoid inappropriate language?

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...mp;pagenumber=2

	07-07-2001 13:51									#19
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I was browsing through the posts in work, and a jewish person just happened to pass behind me when the avatar of GianCarlo was on screen...

Well, if the current avatar (at that time) is still Erwin Rommel, then that Jewish person shouldn't feel too bothered. Rommel's wife (Lucie Molin Rommel) was half Polish, her uncle was a somewhat prominent Catholic priest who opposed the actions of the SS/SD and was murdered by the Nazis, and in the North Africa campain, after taking a primarily Jewish brigade prisoner at Bir Hacheim, he defied SD standing orders to segregate Jewish prisoners and turn them over to the SD. They were instead mixed anonymously in with all other British Eighth Army POWs. Rommel also refused the request of white British officers to have segregated facilities for the "colored" troops of the Eighth Army (there were Indian, (soon to be) Pakistanis, and South African units among the Eighth Army troops. What's surprising (no doubt due to ignorance about his actions) is that Gian picked a Rommel avatar. If it's another one, then he's had more than a few.

	07-07-2001 13:56									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Thanks for addressing my point MtG

	07-07-2001 14:13									#21
	ooops - hit the edit button in the above post by mistake Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Gramphos So why don't you make your methods more sophisticated? How hard is it to convert all A to Z and a to z to the real char before the censor is activated?

People can embed HTML tags with nothing in between them, use spaces, etc. - there are lots of possible permutations for bypassing the censor feature. Then creative mispe!!ings and vâríàti0ns. If people want to bypass it, they'll find a way, unless we do several dozen (at least) combinations for each censored word.

	07-07-2001 14:14									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Gasmaske Thanks for addressing my point MtG

What point was that? All I see in the hardman thread is Kitty's lame joke that hardman became a poly mod.

Since I hadn't posted in the thread, you linking to it in your post indicated to me that you were addressing someone else.

	07-07-2001 14:59									#23
	Sorry wrong link Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...;threadid=21988

Do you really have to use terms like W*****R?

	07-07-2001 16:45									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Do you really have to use terms like AC*L?

	07-07-2001 17:23									#25
	Re: Sorry wrong link Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Gasmaske http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...;threadid=21988 Do you really have to use terms like W*****R?

What <em>are</em> you talking about?

	07-07-2001 18:55									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MarkG care to explain that a bit more?

As the censor checks for bad words in the posts by searching for them a way to go around this is to use the HTLMcodes for one of the characters instead of the real characters. in HTML you write &amp;#ASCIInumber; to get a specific char. (I think &amp;ASCIInumber; works in some browsers).

The ASCIInumbers 65-90 is A-Z and 97-122 is A-Z.
By replacing them with the real char before the check will avoid some words slips past.

for example the thread 'A "bulls&#104;it generator" should provide future techs' form the Civ 3 forum can be written without Censor if you replace any of the chars with the HTMLcode. In this case I replaces 'h' with "&amp;#104;"

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat People can embed HTML tags with nothing in between them, use spaces, etc. - there are lots of possible permutations for bypassing the censor feature. Then creative mispe!!ings and vâríàti0ns. If people want to bypass it, they'll find a way, unless we do several dozen (at least) combinations for each censored word.

That is true. I know there is ways to check for words ignoring HTML-tags but they would take some time to run. And using spaces is almost impossible to stop without ignoring spaces in the check, but then would a lot of other words be censored (English Italy and German is languages would become Engli** **aly and German is languages) and that isn't good. To that comes other fill up chars as '-'. So you are right you can't stop everything, but the more you stop the less bad words will be in the forum.
About mispe!!ings and vâríàti0ns there is nothing that can be done. The only thing to do about that is to add to the rules of the forum that try to get around the censor (in any way) would be punished.

PS. Why did you edit my post?

	07-07-2001 19:07									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Gramphos PS. Why did you edit my post?

It was a mistake, as MtG stated in the subject of his 11:13 post.

	07-07-2001 19:15									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Winston It was a mistake, as MtG stated in the subject of his 11:13 post.

That was why nothing had changed...
I missed the subject as I was writing a response to Mark and I saw MtG's post in the Topic Review (No subjects).

The server must have been down again as is seems as if MtG posted before Mark.

Winston How did you know I used GMT+1...

	07-07-2001 23:21									#29
	Re: Re: Sorry wrong link Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger What <em>are</em> you talking about?

well MtG posted

It's only a few of the pathetic ****ers.

I presume that ****er is now official 'Poly language.

Can a mod confirm that I can use ****er?

	07-07-2001 23:22									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by MattHiggs Do you really have to use terms like AC*L?

Where did I refer to ACOL?