25-07-2001 18:36									#31
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by DrFell On king 2x2x small map finding your opponents cap around 3500BC is quite common if you're fairly close and an early hut gives you a horse or chariot. Putting an explorer into you're opponents cap by 3450BC is certainly not impossible with the right hut techs and 100 gold or so from a hut, it's not as if Eyes does this every game.

almost every game apparently !!! see AH's comments above ....

	25-07-2001 19:41									#32
	Put an end to popups!

Eyes is very slow early in the game. I'm sure he uses the unit-city location, demographic then clic 100 times on the map until he finds your cities, then sends horses from hutts. Fun way of playing civ

	25-07-2001 19:55									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

hopefully firaxis will fix this Bug/Cheat in civ 3, clicking on the black shouldnt reveal whether it is land/sea/city .....

	25-07-2001 20:22									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I guess more than the actual act bothering me, because I'd come to expect it, is the running of the mouth.
The messages.
The utter blindness by some here that it's all legit.


He's got the time to sit and write reams of crap, and it just gets swallowed down.

Yeah, I hope Civ III puts him out of business.

	25-07-2001 20:30									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Ming Well... if you read his discription, you will see that he only had to research one science and the rest came from huts. Nothing seems impossible these days. I remember when people thought that OCC was impossible So unless you have proof... you know the standard rule here...

Big deal.
So a few month's after the fact, after all the games, he remembers the sequence of events?
Good thing you're not a fish, you'd be in somebody's skillet.
All it shows is he can create how it might be possible in some way, however slim that possibility might be.

As far as "the standard rules", he's the one that's acknowledged by starting the thread that he's a skilled cheat, so don't bug me about that.
I'm not disputing a word he's said.
I think he's an excellent damn cheater.
It's up to you if you want to erect a monument to him.

	25-07-2001 20:48									#36
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand The utter blindness by some here that it's all legit.

I don't think people here are blind to what is going on... and all I said was that it was "possible"

But again, I have to remind you of one of the rules of the civ forums...
Don't accuse somebody of cheating unless you have proof...
We've all seen some "fantastic" things happen in games... but unless you have the proof to back it up... it's just a case of Libel/slander.
Accusing somebody of cheating without proof just creates massive flame wars on these forums (we've had some good ones in the past). In the earlier days of MP, it seemed like everytime somebody lost a game, they accused their opponent of cheating... it got really ugly and old. So that is why I created that rule, and enforce it to the letter. So if you ever have any concerns with somebody you are playing... do a turn by turn save. Then you can have a "TON" of fun later
If you don't do the saves, then all you are doing is making foundless accusations.

That's all I'm saying... You are welcome to your opinion... but without proof, it's just an opinion... and one you should keep to your self. I have no intention of watching replays of the old flame wars

	25-07-2001 20:53									#37
	Suffering from ads?

He doesnt always cheat !!! I declared myself the winner after he resigned in one game agaisnt me when he was having diffiicultues expanding with the barbs in his way.... my one and only win at MP

	25-07-2001 20:58									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm concurring with his statement.
If I were to call him a liar about his being a cheat, you'd have a point.
All I've done is say, here's another example showing he's right.
Your protection isn't necessary, I agree with him totally.

	25-07-2001 21:24									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand If I were to call him a liar about his being a cheat, you'd have a point. All I've done is say, here's another example showing he's right.

It's the "another example" I have a problem with... can you PROVE he cheated in that example... and since you can't... don't bring it up. But, feel free to agree with the title of the thread

	25-07-2001 21:29									#40
	A reaally BAD Cheater Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Good and cheat shouldnt go together ...

IMHO

	25-07-2001 22:03									#41
	Increase Your PM Length

Ok.
I agree 100% that EyesOfNight is a master cheater.
No examples are required; it can be accepted as fact.
I can live with that just fine.

	25-07-2001 22:46									#42
	See how much fun this is? Put an end to popups!

First of all, it wasn't 3450BC, it was 3250BC. Do you really want me to dig up the thread on it from gameleague? Second of all, I keep track of ALL games I have ever played against all players. I keep track of how they play, what techs they go for, their expansion habits, everything. I remember the first online game I ever played on here, I even remember what civ I used what size map, what the map looked like. Every time you try to take me on sloww you lose. You never have any evidence for anything you ever say.

	25-07-2001 22:49									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

And what's wrong with being good at cheating? Who do you think Kwang went to when he had someone suspected of cheating? Who do you think players send their saves to when they have a problem with a player? I was the unofficial judge when it came to cheating on gameleague. Even you General Maximus/Chuckles have sent me saves of players you suspected of cheating.

	25-07-2001 22:51									#44
	Re: See how much fun this is? Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by EyesOfNight First of all, it wasn't 3450BC, it was 3250BC. Do you really want me to dig up the thread on it from gameleague? Second of all, I keep track of ALL games I have ever played against all players. I keep track of how they play, what techs they go for, their expansion habits, everything. I remember the first online game I ever played on here, I even remember what civ I used what size map, what the map looked like. Every time you try to take me on sloww you lose. You never have any evidence for anything you ever say.

wow you must have a very formidable database there Sean.... What do you use for it Just an Excel Spreadsheet or Access ... I prefer Access as it has many more handy tools for digging out the information. I too store all my games and information, so i can learn from my mistakes and get better, I may not be good enough to beat you in a real game, but my enjoyment of civ is increasing as i learn more...

	25-07-2001 22:53									#45
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I don't need a program, I just remember it.

	25-07-2001 22:59									#46
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Cheating takes a lot of fun out of the game, there are a lot of ways one can cheat in the game, but I play honestly and 90% of the time I only play with people who I trust not to cheat, the games a lot more fun that way. Although playing with the same people you learn their weaknesses well.... unfortunately I forget them lol.

	25-07-2001 23:02									#47
	Get the **** out of here Enter the AD-FREE zone

Thanks for that spam Caeser, it was really appreciated. For everyone else who wants to get spam on my game board I will launch a campaign of terror against you. Keep the topic free of it so there is room for the morons to post. I will hunt you down if you ruin my game.

	25-07-2001 23:03									#48
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by EyesOfNight I don't need a program, I just remember it.

Wow beats me, i cant even remember the last few moves i made in the HOTW game and that is less than a week ago....

This gets better and better......

	25-07-2001 23:06									#49
	Remove this text

Ras you are about 2 sec away from having a topic dedicated to you and an email sent to MarkG. I'm pretty sure you already had a PCR once, want another? Now stay the **** off if you don't have anything good to say.

	25-07-2001 23:06									#50
	Re: Get the **** out of here Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by EyesOfNight . For everyone else who wants to get spam on my game board

Didnt realise that this was YOUR game board... Or are your reaaly jsut a DL of MarkG like I always suspected !!!

	25-07-2001 23:17									#51
	Suffering from ads?

Come on folks... let's all chill now!

Let's get back to the topic... and stay there. (like that is possible with a thread like this one )

	25-07-2001 23:28									#52
	Who else wishes to confess? Tired of ads?

Do we have any other BAD Cheats amonsgt us wishing to clear their conscience....

WE dont want people accusing people here, just confessions :banned:

	25-07-2001 23:47									#53
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:banned: I SAY LENCH HIM.. hang him from a tree

best laugh ive had in a week of days

	26-07-2001 00:19									#54
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by boann :banned: I SAY LENCH HIM.. hang him from a tree

ouch lenching sounds very cruel !!!!!

	26-07-2001 01:18									#55
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I thought I would never say this but I have to defend what Eyes is saying here.

First, being knowledgable of something doesn't mean you practice it and quite often is a defense against it happening to you. I personally wish I knew all of the cheats as well as Eyes so I could be more aware if someone was doing them to me. Ming wrote an extensive document on cheats and, though i have never played him, I don't think he's a cheater.

Second, I played a 2x2x king game against Eyes (he still has yet to play me on my choice of settings but thats another thread or 5 all by itself). In that game he took my capital in 3400bc. He claims by looking at demographics he knew where my cap was - what units I had - and what specials and rivers i had around my cap. I can't say for sure whether or not he cheated but highly suspect HE DIDN'T.

Third, I ran into Eyes about a month or so after the above mentioned game. On top of a "spirited" conversation about other topics he was able to recall everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) about that game in detail.

So I tend to agree with Ming on this one. Unless you have proof - I wouldn't make the accusation. And to be honest, and please don't take this as an insult Sloww, I don't think Eyes needs to cheat to beat you or I at a 2x2x king game with his map settings and whatever other rules he requires in order to play him. Either that or he cheats every game and I highly doubt that.

	26-07-2001 01:36									#56
	Get a bigger avatar today!

good grief....we all should lighten up some.
even i know eyes is and was bored one day
and made this troll thread to get some moronic
feedback from us civ farmers.


eyes is a very smart young man
there is no doubt of that.

he went fishing for comments
and we gave it to him...
case closed
sorry ming , could not resist using it

	26-07-2001 01:44									#57
	Re: See how much fun this is? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by EyesOfNight First of all, it wasn't 3450BC, it was 3250BC. Do you really want me to dig up the thread on it from gameleague? Second of all, I keep track of ALL games I have ever played against all players. I keep track of how they play, what techs they go for, their expansion habits, everything. I remember the first online game I ever played on here, I even remember what civ I used what size map, what the map looked like. Every time you try to take me on sloww you lose. You never have any evidence for anything you ever say.

It was 3450 B.C. If you want to dig up the evidence, dig up the 6 hour ICQ chat where you admitted to it.
What happened? Did you start figuring out that the years don't make sense? Another 200 years wouldn't make too much difference.
I don't know that I wrote of it at League, since it had nothing to do with League. I questioned you on it at the Zone, where we were when it happened.

You're no different than strat in many ways.
To you, if you quit, you haven't gotten beat.
That's fine, I guess. Whatever makes you feel better about you.

As far as proving anything, I think you've proven it just fine yourself. Thank you very much.

Yes, you helped wonderfully at League didn't you?
I'm not even going to talk badly about the dead though, but that's how well you did.

	26-07-2001 02:43									#58
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

"To you, if you quit, you haven't gotten beat. "

I don't quit games. Gen Maximus messaged me last night about a game he played with you and 2 others where you quit as soon as he bribed a city and said it was for "pussies". And yes the years Do add up even when when it is 3450BC. But I remember it as 3250BC. But lets just say it was 3450BC. That gives me 11 turns to research 1 tech. That gives me 11 turns to get 1 advanced tribe and 11 turns to get 50 gold. I fail to see what is so impossible about this. I was the first one to start using explorers as an offensive attack. I did it to kaak too, but not quite as soon. All I really needed was 1 maybe two turns after I got seafaring to find you considering the fact that explorers get 6 moves.

	26-07-2001 03:48									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by EyesOfNight "To you, if you quit, you haven't gotten beat. " I was the first one to start using explorers as an offensive attack.

I think that is a big call, many players use early explorers offensively and I'm sure many many more throughout the world use it but don't post at apolyton.

Please try not to make claims you can not prove.

	26-07-2001 04:14									#60
	Increase Your PM Length

Yes... many people do use exploreres early... but I do think that eyes was the first to use them as offensive weapons in 2x movement games. It's a great strategy when you play ics'ers who don't keep units in their cities... (That won't work with our group ) He has always been on the forefront of new strategies... no matter what you think of his posting style, you have to give him credit on his game knowledge...

Oh.. and Deity Dude... the reason I developed the list was to know how people were abusing the rules, so we could establish a set of common guidelines for our group to follow when we play
I'm very comfortable now with the normal people I play with.