26-10-2001 11:49									#151
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See

http://www.apolyton.net/civ3/images...lt-oct01-01.jpg

I guess Infantry (non mechanised) needs to be added to the list.

	26-10-2001 12:56									#152
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Kestrel

the unit i had been calling conscripts (nationalism) are most likely riflemen, while the unit i had been calling riflemen (replaceable parts) is most likely infantry, also from the jeff morris strategy guide it sounds like nukes have moved to satellites

	26-10-2001 22:26									#153
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the civ3.com civ of the week was the japanese and the samurai is an upgraded knight (4.4.2) that only requires iron to build

also in the screenshot of the week the selected unit is a battleship however its stats are 18(8).12.6, compared to the older screen shot when it was 24(8).20.4

though it is weaker, it is faster and i like this set of stats better

i updated the list so check it out, and soon we should know all of the unit stats

	26-10-2001 22:29									#154
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 ...in the screenshot of the week the selected unit is a battleship however its stats are 18(8).12.6, compared to the older screen shot when it was 24(8).20.4 though it is weaker, it is faster and i like this set of stats better

Problem is, we don't know if Magellan's Voyage and/or Nuclear Fission are at work, both of which would increase the battleship's movement. Guess I'll find out on Tuesday....

	26-10-2001 22:46									#155
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Stuie

they changed all of the stats on the battleship except for the bombard ability, also wouldn't Magellan's Voyage become obsolete at some point?

plus the very first "real" naval unit the frigate has a speed of four, as does the iron clad...if a battleship cannot outrun a frigate or an ironclad then naval combat will be so imbalanced compared to land forces and unlimited travel on railroads, and instant relocating through airports that a player could totally ignore naval units in the industrial and modern eras...plus even with a movement of 6 it will take a battleship 10 turns to circumnavigate the world on a tiny map, and 30 turns to do it on a huge map

also we know that nuclear fission has been discovered (manhatten project and U.N.) howver we do not know if nuclear power has been discovered yet, it is 1912, and discoveries take at least four turns, and in addition to nuclear fission, we know that computers have been discovered, and that they are working on miniaturization...so it is unknown if nuclear power has been discovered or not

	26-10-2001 23:31									#156
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Well, after WWII, Canada had the third largest navy in the world. Yes, the third largest, after the US and Britain.

This included three aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers, and an assortment of other warships.

During WWII, Canada took over 48% of all convoy duties across the Atlantic. Most movies about the Battle of the Atlantic usually ignore this massive contribution to defeating the U-boat menace.



Canada in World War II


Facts on Canada's involvement in the Second World War

* More than one million Canadians and Newfoundlanders served in the Second World War. Of these more than 45,000 gave their lives, and another 55,000 were wounded. Countless others shared the suffering and hardship of war.

* Approximately 14,000 Canadians landed at Normandy on D-day at Juno Beach.

* The 1st Canadian Army was instrumental in the liberation of Holland in May 1945.

* For a country of 11 million people, Canada ended the war with the third largest navy, the fourth largest air force and an army of six divisions, thereby becoming a significant military power.


*shrugs* Ahh, well. . . what can you do, eh?

Now Canada's hopes for world domination are nothing more than a faded memory, eh?

	26-10-2001 23:46									#157
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I think the prime use of battelships will be to totaly pillage city improvmensts. 4 attacks each turn is powerfull.

	26-10-2001 23:55									#158
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According to Civ3.com (http://www.civ3.com/faq6.cfm), there are also conscript units with only 2 hitpoints.

	27-10-2001 00:02									#159
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How about the Cruiser and Partisan? Are they in the game (since they aren't on the list)? I think the Cruiser had been confirmed by someone from Firaxis here on the forums.

Also wondering. The frigate is 2-2-4. Firaxis said that the Privateer was weaker than the Frigate. So it's stats would be something like 1a1d or 2a1d. The Caraval must be weaker than that, or it has been modified into a transport-only unit. But what about the Galley then? 0a0d?? It would kinda suck not being able to have sea battles before the invention of the Frigate

And there are 3 fighters (regular, jet, stealth) but only two bombers (regular, stealth). What about the big strategic bombers like the Lancer and Blackjack?

It also doesn't seem to make much sense to have an infantry and a rifleman unit in the same era. Maybe the Infantry is a "modern" soldier, armed with machine guns instead of rifles, but those would be post-WW2 units, since most infantrymen in WW2 only had rifles to fire with.

Transport has 1 attack and 4 defense?? Also seems very weird to me.

No dragoons. It suddenly jumps from medieval knights to cavalrymen, who still fought in WW2. Rather big leap. And after that it goes from a 6-3-3 cavalry to a 16-8-2 tank.

No attack helicopters either. That really sucks. Now it will just be tank vs tank all the time. in Civ2 it was kinda nice having half a dozen helicopters mowing down enemy tanks (Apache style).

	27-10-2001 00:05									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Leonidas Now Canada's hopes for world domination are nothing more than a faded memory, eh?

I've seen Canadian Bacon, and I don't trust any Cannuck further then I can throw him. You've tortured the US with the likes of Celine Dione and Tom Greene, and I think that qualifies as terrorism. We will not stand for much abuse Canada, be on guard !!

j/k

	27-10-2001 00:15									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Mark L And there are 3 fighters (regular, jet, stealth) but only two bombers (regular, stealth). What about the big strategic bombers like the Lancer and Blackjack? No attack helicopters either. That really sucks. Now it will just be tank vs tank all the time. in Civ2 it was kinda nice having half a dozen helicopters mowing down enemy tanks (Apache style).

About the bombers, I'm happy there's only one or two kinds, save all the gritty unit details for full wargame simulations, civ is more abstract then the details of individual tank/plane/ship types.

About the attack helicopters, I agree, especially as recent history (Gulf War) and current military strategy show the attack chopper to be king over the tank in combat, that is as long as the chopper owners have air supremacy and the chopper has the drawback of being unable tto hold territory like a tank can. I guess though that based on this idea, attack choppers are just short range air units, which would defeat the purpose of building them (in Civ3 at least). Well, we'll have to wait to release to see if they're in or not, but I'm not holding my breath.

	27-10-2001 00:27									#162
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV I've seen Canadian Bacon, and I don't trust any Cannuck further then I can throw him. You've tortured the US with the likes of Celine Dione and Tom Greene, and I think that qualifies as terrorism. We will not stand for much abuse Canada, be on guard !! j/k

Tom Greene is a waste of air and cells IMHO. The only thing he has ever done to a movie was to make it worse.

	27-10-2001 00:31									#163
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV About the attack helicopters, I agree, especially as recent history (Gulf War) and current military strategy show the attack chopper to be king over the tank in combat, that is as long as the chopper owners have air supremacy and the chopper has the drawback of being unable tto hold territory like a tank can. I guess though that based on this idea, attack choppers are just short range air units, which would defeat the purpose of building them (in Civ3 at least). Well, we'll have to wait to release to see if they're in or not, but I'm not holding my breath.

Maybe some Mod -maker will make an Apache style helicopter that has a shorter range but does missions around your cities. Would be nice to have Attack helo's based in cities that could take out virtually any single unit in one round.

They wouldn't need a great range, just good attack power and the ability to be given the mission to destroy any enemy unit that get's within their range.

	27-10-2001 01:33									#164
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If they don't have an attack helicoptor, I am most certainly going to make one. Those things revolutionized combat. Apache's just annihilate tank columns.

And they defy the laws of physics! I mean what else do you know that defies the laws of physics?

	27-10-2001 01:46									#165
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Well any attack chopper would have to used as a regular ground unit. Why bother building them if it's an air unit? Regular air units would have longer range and most likely similar costs. You'd have to make it so they can do several air missions in a turn, but that would lead to the same SMAC problem of overpowered choppers