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johndmuller
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Capitol Hill, Colony of DC
Feb 2001
time: 00:15
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2193
Nothing exciting this year.
Darius, here are my costs to Upgrade a Trained Drop Infantry Shell (1-1-1) to:
a)-ECM Plasma Trance ec=40
b)-3A Plasma Trance ec=50
c)-Clean ECM Plasma ec=60
d)-Clean 3A Plasma ec=60
If you can do it cheaper, then I'll just send you ec's for whatever your costs are instead of upgrading it myself. I will be getting p-drones until it is yours, but I might be willing to spend a little extra to figure out exactly what we can and cannot do in one turn. At the cost of spending extra time with the DW redesigning the drop shell unit, I can always upgrade the whole class of units that way after all the rest of the move is done (assuming I don't have extraneous units I don't want ugraded), although I don't really want to have to keep redesigning the same unit over and over.
I suppose you'll be picking (d) since I'm buying, but feel free to go with (b) if support is not an issue, or some other design if you'd rather and I can afford it. Unless you tell me otherwise, I'm going to stop at the Monolith to upgrade using that extra turn. I can see the road - Thanks.
I'm planning on sending you a standard (speeder) Probe on the following turn if my delivery system works - unless you don't want it. Assuming that you do, tell me where you want it to end up and I'll turn it over at whichever base seems to waste the least movement.
Last edited by johndmuller on 20-11-2001 at 11:11
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johndmuller
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Capitol Hill, Colony of DC
Feb 2001
time: 00:15
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2194
Well it's new tech time again.
Knowhow2, it looks like you will finish Superconductor a little before I finish PreSentient. Assuming that we want Fusion Power, I see two possibilities (1) You give me Superconductor when you get it and research something else, assuming that I will be able to research the Fusion tech; and (2) You research PreSentient Algorithms {or one of the techs I already have that you don't (Intel Integrity, CyberEthics, Advanced Subatomic or Doc:Initiative)}, then when I get Presentient, I give it to you and you switch to Fusion; if you aren't offered Fusion to research, you research one of the other techs on that list, I then give it to you and we see if you can research Fusion at that point (repeating as necessary until we get it). Under this (2) scenario, you don't offer me Superconductor right away.
In order to minimize research costs, I would recommend (2): You researching Presentient and switching to Fusion after I give Presentient to you. I will research Silksteel until Darius gives it to me to likewise save a little on the tech costs (and keep our options open for me to research Fusion if you have trouble going that way).
As usual, if you want to go a different way, feel free.
Darius, if you are trying to keep up with all the techs, the next few turns will be active as we will all be getting new ones - you should confirm your desire to have them all (bearing in mind that in only a few turns you will be finishing your research too).
As far as the next tech targets, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but currently favor getting Planetary Economics (requiring Progenitor Psych & Adaptive Economics) and Centauri Meditation (requiring Centauri Empathy). Any other (or better) ideas?.
Darius, re the unit(s) you may or may not want from me: As you can see, I moved the drop shell unit over to the Monolith; just let me know what you want to do (if you say you want it in some form or other, I'll probably move it over to Free Drone Central from where it can reach nearly all of your bases; if you don't I'll probably move it to Miners Freehold from where I can drop it back to my territory). Next turn I will probably deliver a standard probe over there, although if you wanted it, I could deliver (and hopefully be able to turn over to you right away) a regular synthmetal garrison instead (please specify which of the three bases near the monolith you would want it in). As I (might have) said before, I am refining my techniques here, so don't hold me to those high Drone efficiency standards - this goes under my R&D budget.
Last edited by johndmuller on 22-11-2001 at 10:49
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Darius
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Connecticut, USA
Mar 2000
time: 00:15
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2195 to John.
knowhow2, as my turn was closing, I saw at least two enemy jets in your territory. One of the killed one of your formers.
John, my former at Shanghai needs new orders.
My fleet should be ready to depart from Craftman's Keep in three turns. After one turn en route, it will arrive at Sea Collective and the fun will begin. John, if you wish to participate by contributing a unit or two, that would be cool. I think the most useful configuration at this point woud be a AAA best armor garrison to hold the base after I capture it. Drop ability is not necessary, as I cannot drop into sea bases. (Might be useful later though, in the land invasion phase.) Another probe would be handy, too. Whatever you bring to Craftsman's Keep in the next three turns, I'll bring them along.
Hey, here's as idea.  We could all slow our research (allocate 0% to labs) so as not to discover any new techs until after I clean out the Hive. We could then later switch to new techs without penalty, and discover a whole new crop of techs that the Hive does not have on the next turn. What do you think?
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johndmuller
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Capitol Hill, Colony of DC
Feb 2001
time: 00:15
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Darius,
Your may or may not have possibilities; mainly, I would need to know what techs the Hive has that we don't, perhaps you could let me know that before I take my turn (in case you didn't know, reopening an already played turn doesn't trigger any future cheating warnings unless you save and we play from that reopened turn). Your proposal suggests that the Hive already has the techs, but you didn't actually spell that out.
I see a couple of possible downsides to the plan. First, it is presumably too late for knowhow2 to implement your idea since I think his next tech comes in this year so Superconductor will be gotten before he could stop it. My tech is scheduled a year later, it is to be Presentient Algs and I could theoretically follow that plan if the Hive already has that tech, although I don't know whether I would get substantially more Econ out of it given the way the game penalizes those radical shifts in allocation (that's the other potential drawback) - I'll check it out though and see if it is worth it - I might be able to put some psych to good use, I was thinking that I could afford to switch to demo now that I have mostly clean units (perhaps the psych would give me one fewer drone to make up for losing those 10 free mins which are nice when you need a rec comm right away as I do currently). If the Hive doesn't have Presentient, it doesn't hurt for me to get it and even if they do, we would be forgoing 4 or more turns of researching which whould get us well on the way to another tech (which the Hive could have available to be stolen by then if they've already got what we are workinig on). If you can tell me what additional techs they have and what they might get from the other AI's and what they are all working on, that would be most helpful.
Thanks,
John
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johndmuller
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Capitol Hill, Colony of DC
Feb 2001
time: 00:15
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2195
Sorry it took me so long, between Thanksgiving travel and rearranging my research/economy, it took quite a while.
Well, I hadn't read Darius' latest post before my move, and being convinced that it was a good idea, I slowed my research to 10% (econ is better at 80-10-10 than at 90-10-0). 
It will still give me a tech in just a few years, so I will have to revisit it anyway, perhaps to rethink altogether if Darius' new version seems to make more sense. Meanwhile, I'm going down the official Democracy road at last, so my economy will have to be a little different at least, but I may be able to pop-boom a little this way.
Darius, I've got a probe and the drop shell scheduled to arrive at Craftsman Keep next turn; I'll convert and turn them over to you as soon as I can (presumably by the following turn at latest). Interestingly, don't seem to get the p-drones when in one of your bases.
Last edited by johndmuller on 23-11-2001 at 12:36
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johndmuller
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Capitol Hill, Colony of DC
Feb 2001
time: 00:15
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2196
I cut off my research so as not to finish Presentient - waiting for Robin Hood Darius to liberate those techs from the Hive. Are you really going to get 3? I thought you were worried that the sea base already had the interlocks. Well as long as you get Presentient, it will give me a free tech - if you keep me informed as to what the AI has, I can presumably research something that won't cause unwanted stealing complications. Meanwhile, I'm going to get spoiled with all the income from 90% econ.
I delivered a Drop 3A Plasma Guard (although it changed the name) to Craftsman Keep, a probe is almost there (next turn).
Last edited by johndmuller on 24-11-2001 at 10:43
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johndmuller
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Capitol Hill, Colony of DC
Feb 2001
time: 00:15
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2197
Darius, I turned over the probe unit at Craftsman Keep; good luck on the expedition. Yes, that is a Drop Transport, I used it to bring over the probe; it's sort of useful - some things are too expensive to build drop shell versions of and then upgrade, and it is easier for moving already built units - but the rover base is a waste - it only gets 1 turn anyway; I'm going to experiment with an infantry version  next. I was hoping that a probe would be able to get a move after the drop that way, but apparently only non-probe units get to do that.
I'm holding off on techs until the dust settles on the Hive tech raid, although I think I would like SilkSteel when it arrives so as to be able to build better garrisons as soon as possible. So, Knowhow2, just offer me the maps until further notice.
Viz-a-viz the Consciousness, I have ideas about their Northern bases such as Pi Complex, which is more or less within my range. Once I had a foothold there, I could supply garrison units at some of their other bases as knowhow2 conquers them - I do not as yet have any navy to speak of, so I would be pretty limited as far as helping with their sea bases - I suppose I could make drop amphib units, but they might be expensive and would need support too. Knowhow2, if you want to send some of that Yang-sized airforce up to Cote d'Or and/or 3rd World Trading Co. I could focus more on the necessary ground units to take/occupy the land part of Cyborg territory while you took care of the northern Cyborgs defenders.
Knowhow2, wouldn't a few SAM choppers help your defense against the air raids? Where are you being attacted and do you know from where the attackers are coming?
I could use infiltration data about Pi Complex and Iota Station and as much of that whole area as you all can see through the base windows or whatever sources, particularly the road leading west from Pi Complex to that sensor as I would likely start along there. If it is wide open, I could drop some units there and start a buildup, or at least get my own infiltration.
Last edited by johndmuller on 25-11-2001 at 13:02
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Darius
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Connecticut, USA
Mar 2000
time: 00:15
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Do you guys know exactly how the security interlocks work? I have been assuming that after you probe an AI base, it would have interlocks starting on the next turn. Hence my previous comments. But something I read in Vel's guide last night suggested (but did not come out and say) that the interlock might be put up immediately, within the same turn. I can't remember ever trying multiple probes at the same base within the same turn, so I don't know for sure. Do either of you know?
John, I'vd copied my map of Cyborg territory, attached below. (You can see this anyway, no?) In addition to the map, I have the following intelligence on the two bases you requested.
Pi Complex
Population 6
Producing Maritime Control Center, to complete in 19 turns
Chaos Infantry 8-1-1 Disciplined (+)
Missile Artillery (6)-1-1 Disciplined (+)
Iota Station
Population 3 (Currently running at -1 nutrient)
Producing Drop Chaos Squad Mk3, to complete in 5 turns
AAA Chaos infantry 8-<3>-1 Disciplined (+)
Trained 3-Pulse Garrison 1-3p-1 Hardened (+)
Transport Foil
Sorry about the reload. While capturing the screen for the attached file, my display got messed up and I had to reload.
I got Silksteel and offered it to both of you. I can't remember what we were supposed to choose next. I picked Applied Relativity, because I love the Suppercollider. Let me know if you have a better plan.
Operation "Robin Hood" has commenced. Two transports are enroute, with destroyer escort and under air cover, and should arrive at Sea Collective next turn.
2198 to John.
Last edited by Darius on 28-11-2001 at 06:29
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johndmuller
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Capitol Hill, Colony of DC
Feb 2001
time: 00:15
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2198
Regarding the interlocks, I think I read a recent thread that described the interlocks pretty well. I don't know if it was in the thread or not, but I think that the interlocks are activated after the first time anyone steals tech from the particular base. The interlocks don't make it impossible to steal tech, they just lower the odds from very likely to midling, so you should save your best probes for then, using the lesser morale ones for the first time(s). BTW, we could harden each others bases that way if we wanted to spend the time and make sure that we had techs to steal in the one faction and wanted the techs in the other faction (like knowhow2 right does now - feel free to steal the techs from me at my southern or western bases before you accept the trade offers).
I can see the map pretty much as much as you can, except I can't see into the bases to see what troops are there, etc., nor can I see the base map where one could see 3rd (or 4th) party units if they were there - just a little bit of extra intel; none of us can see the indigenous troops outside the bases unless we have units in the neighborhood. Sorry for the tampering warning from my turn - I had to reboot - system resources bottomed out and I couldn't see most of the graphics, even after closing everything else - don't know whether it was just leaving the computer on too long without rebooting or that dreaded bitmap file; I usually run the game on NT, should have taken the resource degradation problem on regular Windows more seriously when I saw it was a bit pokey. Knowhow2 is going to think we are both cheating .
Darius, if you offered SilkSteel to me, it must have been before your crash as I didn't get the offer; please reoffer it. I don't have a tech chart with me, but one thing we need to think about is getting the Orbital Defense Pods as quickly as possible especially after PBs are available as our friends will no doubt be building and using the PBs. That suggests we go after all the prereqs of ODPs.
Last edited by johndmuller on 28-11-2001 at 01:24
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johndmuller
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Capitol Hill, Colony of DC
Feb 2001
time: 00:15
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2199
Sorry it took so long; the switch to Fusion required a lot of MM, but now I'm cool with all that new tech. I am now researching Biomachinery (mostly due to a dyslexic misclick) after which (next turn or the one after) I will research something more useful.
Darius, I guess everything worked out very well probe-wise; what happened?
Knowhow2, after a few turns prototyping SilkSteel and Chaos, I should be ready to launch a minimal invasion of Pi Complex - estimated 4 or 5 years. Once I have that beachhead, I can funnel troops through there to your later conquests. To get started, I could use your help in recon and taking out any random units lurking in the bush. Given that they don't have any defense in the base to speak of (especially if the units there are not fusion, it might be best if you don't attack them there as it will only stimulate them building AAA units. Perhaps a cleanout just before my attack if their turn is before yours (i.e. between our turns) so that they don't have time to rebuild before my turn comes around - Does someone know whether the Borgs come before or after knowhow2 in the turn order?
Last edited by johndmuller on 29-11-2001 at 02:41
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16-11-2001 20:30
unit in my territory? 
) trained, police, amphi - I need them all. 
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