29-01-2002 05:23									#391
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2223 to John.

knowhow2, congratulations on capturing the HSA. Nothing else to report.

	30-01-2002 04:48									#392
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2223 to knowhow2.

Had a computer freezup 90% the way through my turn; Grrrrr

Nothing significant to report.

Knowhow2, at the moment, I think I would be hurt worse by falling sea levels from the shade (particularly by landlocking my ports, but also by wasting my sea terraforming) than by the current extent of rising sea levels - only a few things at risk at the moment - another 4 or 5 turns and I'll be cool with the sea level after the current shift.

I suppose that there will be more increases and probably by greater amounts; I will probably be interested then. But maybe not then either; I think I'm starting to get a handle on how to manage those things.

	30-01-2002 14:57									#393
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turn 2223 to darius

...another UoP base has fallen.

this is however costing me copters and needles (not to mention those fungus-pops allover the place...... )

	30-01-2002 22:12									#394
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Hey, guys, I have a question about the rules for this game.

I have built a needlejet colony pod, which on my next turn will (re)-build a base on that small island off my west coast between my continent and Yang's. I will then drop several garrison units there to defend it. On the turn after that, some of those drop units will then drop into my base on Yang's mainland (they can't reach in one drop without stopping on the island first). My question is: Is it allowed for a unit to do multiple drops (base to base to base to base etc.) all in one turn? In my SP games, I don't allow myself to do that because it "seems" like a cheat. What about in MP games in general, and this game in particular? I'll direct Googlie's attention here to get his input.

Now a strategy quetion. My newly upgraded fusion chopper in my former Cyborg base is itching to go out and kill some Hive missiles and maybe even a planet buster. I don't have units there to take over any bases, I just want to polish off some enemy missiles. Any reason why I shouldn't turn my chopper crew loose?

I have the turn and will play it this evening.

	30-01-2002 22:44									#395
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In both the 'Poly Tourney rules and the Forum Wars rules, right clicking for multiple drops in the same turn is forbidden in MP play

(for some reason the link on p1 of this thread to the original one, where I would prolly have posted suggested rules, doesn't work, so I can'r see what was agreed - I'd think it's a no-no, though)

G.

	30-01-2002 23:33									#396
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OK, right-clicking is not allowed. What I'm talking about is when you drop into a base, and you still have a full movement point available and you're in a base, so you can click "I" and drop again. Is that the same thing? Now that I've written it down, I think it's the same thing.

	30-01-2002 23:57									#397
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I've always thought the multiple drop was prohibited in general (and also in this game, despite Googlie's somewhat liberal take on the stockpile energy thing), but that being said, I've never even been able to figure out exactly how you're supposed to do the multiple drops at all . From time to time I try right clicking on a drop unit, using the keyboard shortcut, etc, but I've never been able to get that parachute a second time; I thought maybe it had been fixed by a patch or something. Apparently it has instead exceeded my devious imagination . So how do you do it anyway ?

If you build some Air Transports, you could probably execute a drop manouver after arrival with drop units that were passengers on the transport; while not the quickest method, it should get the drop units over there before Yang clobbers them with missiles in the new base at the halfway point if that is what you are worried about. Another (hairbrained?) scheme might be to build an Airbase there instead of a regular base - perhaps Yang wouldn't bother hitting that with missiles and I believe that air drops can be initiated from an airbase. With the mighty drone industry, you could send in a big enough squadron of drop superformers to build the airbase in the initial turn (I believe that drop formers can drop and terraform on the same turn). That would be the landing zone for the above Air Transports and the launching pad for the drop troops. NJ fusion (non-elite) transports get 2 turns of 5 tiles and choppers 4 per turn for 4(?) turns - the passenger has to get off the turn before the crash if you take them to the limit and don't have a base to land in

Regarding the proposed air raids - Go to it ! The main negative, aside from all the colateral damage to civilians, is that the AI will likely put AAA defenders in there afterwards, which will make it harder to steamroll them if/when we feel tough enough to try that on Yang. I've been picking off stuff that Santi puts in the base across from 3rd World and she hasn't built AAA in there yet, but maybe she doesn't have it - Aki certainly did it when knowhow2 took out the initial defenders. Anyway, as for Yang, I'd much rather you took out those missiles, as they make it really hard to start off a base, especially when he follows them up with drop troops. If there is a base that you think is worth trying to take and hold, I've got some drop garrisons over there, but I think it would be hard to hang onto anything in Yangland at this stage. Perhaps we need to kill off all of his defenders in the next tier of bases (or maybe the next 2 tiers) to keep him from reinforcing sooner than we can get more air power in to zap the reinforcements. On the other hand, I have a tendency to overestimate the AI sometimes.

Last edited by johndmuller on 31-01-2002 at 00:14

	31-01-2002 00:23									#398
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quote: So how do you do it anyway?

Well, it's prohibited, so I don't think I should tell you.

OK, theoretically if you drop into your own base and, while the unit is still blinking, hit the "I" key, it can drop again. And again, and again. Hence, the cheating part: if you have enough bases close enough together, you can circumnavigate the globe in a single turn.

	31-01-2002 04:04									#399
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well if its against the rules ist against the rules.....

but then again,,, I was the one trying to gas everyone (well not us) so chetaing isn't quite within my sphere of morale......


with plain lanuage- go for it!

	31-01-2002 07:18									#400
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No, it's cheating.

I destroyed 5 Hive missiles this turn.

According to plan, I established a base on that island and dropped 5 units into it enroute to Hiveland.

Turn to John.

	31-01-2002 07:33									#401
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I think that the "I" key may be allowed for multiple drops, base to base.

What's prohibited is the right-click mouse key, where if you drop into any uninhabited square, the "I" won't work, but a right click will let you move the unit 8 more tiles and so on.

A good rule of thumb is: if the unit is blinking (assuming you have the "whole unit blinks" preference turned on) then the move is legal. Or if the "action" command from the menu activayes the unit after a drop, it is legal.

G.

	31-01-2002 23:07									#402
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2224 to Governor Knowhow2 - Nothing exciting to report.

I noticed that Yang has Photon Wave; is anyone in a position to steal it? We all have all the techs that any of us have, correct? We're coming up on new-tech time again; I'm thinking about these techs:
-A- Centauri Genetics (Locusts)
-B- NanoMiniaturization boosted via researching Monopole Magnets with Darius (Hovertank, path to Hab Domes)
-C- Probability Mechanics assuming we steal Photon Wave (Tachyon Field, Prob. Armor)
-D- Planetary Econ (Hybrid Forests, path to Quantum)
There may well be other good ones, I didn't look too closely. I'm leaning towards B for me, A for knowhow2 and C for Darius. Your ideas please ?

Darius, would you please move the (newly unemployed) former at (57,37) to (60,36) for yet another Borehole. Thanks.

Please let me know when the missile count drops to a safe level .

Not that I really want to do the double drop, but I dropped a garrison onto a former stack in the open, where it was flashing, but it wouldn't drop again. Next turn I will probably be dropping a unit or two into bases and will try it yet again. Either this doesn't work the same for everyone (I'm running the SMAX from the Planetary Pack, but as far as I know they are all the same) or else I am missing something; please give me a detailed version of the method (like you were taking a user through a debugging session on the phone). Does the 'entire unit flashes' preference need to be set to a particular mode ?

	01-02-2002 02:53									#403
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turn 2224 to darius

Universal Translator done..... two free techs. offered to you both.

cent gen and cent psi

will concentrate on putting the UoP out of their misery.

	01-02-2002 07:41									#404
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I have been offering all techs to both of you every turn.

Regarding Yang's missiles, I will have to bring my chopper back to base to heal for a while, then maybe I can go on another run. But first, knowhow2 will have to send me the correct turn.

The multiple drop will not work if you drop into the open. It only works if you drop into a base. The debugging session is therefore as follows: 1. Drop into a base. 2. Do it again. (I don't know if the "entire unit flashes" preference is important. I don't even know what it does; I've never fooled with that one.)

	01-02-2002 11:02									#405
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Darius, there are modern Aerospace Facilities at Pi Complex if you want to heal faster. If the pickens are that easy, maybe I'll send over a couple more choppers to join in the fun; the Spartans always have high morale troops in their bases that make me wonder if I brought enough firepower.

As to the multiple drops, I'm sure I have tried to do step 2 after step 1 in a base before without success. I can imagine that there are different ways to accomplish this via menus, keyboard entries, left handed mice, etc.; I thought maybe I happened to do it in a way that blocked the double drop (the way that the Firaxis QA people apparently used), and that some other sequence allowed it. As for telephone debugging, I meant meticulous instructions to people who will find every possible way to misinterpret you such as - debugger: "hit enter"; customer: "I will, but my boss gets annoyed when I play with the handicapped doors".

In case you are relying on this being at the end of the thread.


Says Darius: "knowhow2 will have to send me the correct turn .

	01-02-2002 14:16									#406
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resent! resent!

	01-02-2002 22:08									#407
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John, I knew that was what you meant about debugging; I was just too tired to deal with it last night. Sorry. I've got the right turn now and tonight I'll try some tests (like dropping back and forth between my originating base and target base) and will let you know.

The Hive missiles were easy pickings the first time because there was just one defender without AAA. I believe that a AAA garrison is under construction there now, and will probably be complete by the time I retreat and heal. However, if I open the turn and there are still only missiles and a PB there, I just might suicide the chopper to take out the PB.

	02-02-2002 06:58									#408
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Well, I tried to do a double drop and couldn't do it. Maybe it only works if you drop into an original base (I tried it at a captured Hive base), or maybe only if the base has an aerospace complex, or maybe it only works on Tuesdays.

The Hive base "The Hive" has a 5AAA defender there now and my chopper was heavily damaged already, so I pulled back to recuperate. Meanwhile, I took heavy missile damage at the sea base I captured from the Hive a while back, probably because I tried to get a transport with a probe over to the mainland to steal tech, but ended up stranding the transport outside, drawing heavy fire. However, I got several drop troops over to the Hive mainland, and subverted another.

Turn to John.

	02-02-2002 12:41									#409
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2225 to Governor Knowhow2

Darius, I sent a missile over to you at Psi Consensus, but I didn't turn it over to you because it will create pacifist drones and you didn't seem to have quite enough spare drone control to handle it. Its not a great missile (the best I can build in Wealth), but I figured you could use it to kill or at least soften up the Hive's AAA before you send in your choppers. Let me know when you want me to turn over control. Alternatively, I could do the missile attack for you - it looks like the Hive goes before me and after you so that unless they coordinate their reinforcements somehow among their factions it would work out OK (except for any judgement calls that might have to be made) - if you want to use that method, just tell me when launch it.

Darius, after my turn was over, I watched as the Spartans did something to Psi Consensus (Perhaps shell it with their nearby ship); I don't know what damage occurred (a number of explosions and I saw various units displayed); if the missile is still there but is badly damaged, I'll move it out to get repaired, otherwise I'll leave it there; if it was killed instead, let me know. The Spartans also sent some planes over to your Mainland's NW Coast, near the western corner and killed a probeship of mine (which I suppose is why I saw the action) and a transport of yours; the planes are each still there for revenge if you have some SAM, 2 tiles removed from shore.

Knowhow2, I didn't take the tech this time because I have new tech coming up next turn and the slight delay should save some unnecessary additional tech costs. Please give me all the techs again this very next turn, including the new one your going to get; I can take them later in my turn after I have started my new tech and the tech cost has been established.

	02-02-2002 19:37									#410
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turn to darius

cent Psi... forgot to offer it to you after I received it, Darius, next turn.

took another UoP base

	03-02-2002 20:51									#411
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knowhow2, in case you missed my email, you sent me the wrong turn again. Please send me the Drone or Domai turn, not the Lal turn.

	04-02-2002 16:32									#412
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resent today, sorry

	05-02-2002 06:57									#413
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I got a global warming message. Sea level rising 200 meters in 20 years.

There's not too much damage from the Spartan ship near Psi Consensus, but I can't do anything about it until my chopper recovers.

Turn to John.

	05-02-2002 22:43									#414
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2226 to Governor Knowhow2

Finished and offered you each Adaptive Econ. (I'm building the Planetary Energy Grid.)

I'm now researching Photon/Wave Mech. We will need Probability Mechanics, NanoMetallurgy, NanoMiniaturization and Matter Compression before we can build Super Tensile Solids, which will let us build the Space Elevator and Hab Domes.

Knowhow2, it would help if you would say somewhere (like in the thread) what tech you are now researching when you change so that those of us who also start a new tech right after you do can make an informed decision about what to research next since the game makes you choose before your turn starts and therefore you cannot yet see for yourself what the others have done. (You could also tell us your intentions beforehand, although the game doesn't necessarily offer the right stuff.) BTW, where are you headed now?

Darius, I moved an arty unit into Psi Consensus to defend against and punish the Spartan warship and let the other units heal (remember there is an Aerospace Complex in Pi Complex); I also gave you a probe unit in Psi Consensus .

	06-02-2002 03:29									#415
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turn to darius

currently researching will to power, not really sure why but I think I want the Dream Twister.

The UoP is falling fast and hard.

	06-02-2002 06:46									#416
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Turn to John.

John, thanks for the probe.

	06-02-2002 21:49									#417
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2227 to Knowhow2.

Knowhow2, you got Field Modulation, from the Datalinks, I suppose.

Darius, Col. Santiago seized Manufacturing Warrens with a Mind Control Probe .
I think I saw her flipping you off too afterwards .

	07-02-2002 03:13									#418
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well yes.

turn to darius

	07-02-2002 22:07									#419
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That was my staging area to invade the Hive. I had a bunch of drop garrisons there, just waiting for the choppers. Oh well. Now I can concentrate on building for a while, then design a better invasion force.

2228 to John.

	08-02-2002 05:32									#420
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2228

Nothing major occurred in my turn - I'll have the Planetary Energy Grid next turn and I'm trying to build up an invasion force to take on the Spartans, as soon as I figure out what I need to take and where to put it while I'm getting ready. Hopefully we can suppress the western division of Yang's Air Force when I move in on Sparta.

Knowhow2, You're really rolling over Zak; good show; please refraim from burning his books - we're supposed to be the good guys and he's just one of the innocents duped by the Chairman. Wow! - I just realized that the Will to Power you're getting this turn is going to be great for me (because of the Cloning Vats)!! Please send it right away!!! I gotta have it!!!! Please Please!!!!! I do so those Elite troops!!!!!!

If you are looking for ideas on what to research next, I would suggest researching one of the techs that Darius or I are researching (Monopole Magnets or Photon/Wave Mechanics, both scheduled to finish in 2 or 3 years), preferably the one of us who will finish last (although that shouldn't matter), and when we give them to you, you will be in a position to possibly research something on the road to Super Tensile Solids in case we are not offered the right stuff. If we are offered the right stuff, you can then research whatever else turns you on (you do seem to be trying to shine up to Dierdra with all those green techs you're doing; too bad its Santiago and Aki who are in the game though ).

Darius, I got rid of that pesky Spartan boat by Psi Consensus and I stationed another chopper over on that continent to help you with Yang's PB, etc. and I'll send some more air power over shortly. I notice that he's building a bunch more missiles too. If you don't have something else in mind, why don't you start an Aerospace Complex in Psi Consensus; I'll give you the ec's to rush it; just make sure that the 1st 10 mins are booked to it so it only costs 2ec/min to rush the rest of it. Once we have that, we won't have to waste so many turns healing in between attacks.

The Spartans have renamed your former base ("Manufacturing Warrens") to "Training Camp"; is it you or Yang who is going to get ticked off over that? The Spartan air force took a lot of cheap shots just offshore from Spanner Works (if I got the name right), formers, crawlers, stuff like that. Do you need some SAM units to help out over there?