12-08-2001 21:53									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well, Ralf, the way I see it is, if you release an expansion pack anyway, you might as well change the number of cultures, etc too, so I don't see that as a major problem myself. Besides, there's no necessity for the # of civs per culture or per ability to be equal - in fact, that not even the case now.

But even when you don't do this: an individual vote in a poll doesn't count all that much in the overall score (presuming enough people vote) so if individual votes aren't balanced out that doesn't mean the overall result isn't either (and vice versa). Even if Firaxis would decide which civs would be put in an expansion pack merely on basis of this poll (which would be really cool but really unlikely as well), they'd still look at the entire list and select not just the civs with the most points, but those that fit into the existing system as well.

Of course, if people want to change their vote with your point in mind, they're welcome to do so. I don't see how the whole 'structure' of this poll could be adapted for this purpose though.

	12-08-2001 21:56									#32
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I seem to have entered Vikings twice.

Vikings -7, Hebrew +7.

	12-08-2001 22:06									#33
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Hmm, Markos just beat me to it. He makes good points too: weightening is done automatically and this thread is about what we want and not what would be best.

LOL Markos, a Greek only expansion pack, I guess you'd like that wouldn't you? I added the Minoans and Macedonians because they weren't Greek. Okay, Macedonia is a controversial issue and at least partially a matter of personal opinion but the Greeks only colonized Crete after the Minoan downfall (the Minoans had their own religion, language, alphabeth, etc, they were very different from the Greeks). Anyway, it were just examples, I also included the Moghul and 1 or 2 other Indian civs while I left other major Indian civs out.

	12-08-2001 22:23									#34
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

i hate to get off-topic, but history is not about personal opinion when there are so many facts
of course minoans were a lot different from the greeks of the 5th century but linear b was an early greek dialect, found also on mycenae and pylos....

anyway, lets leave it here, back to voting

	12-08-2001 22:41									#35
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Locutus Arator, I gave all your civs 10 points as well. I agree, but even if the number of custom civs is unlimited (which remains to be seen), it's still possible that Firaxis might bring out an expansion pack to make some of the fan-made civs 'official'. It's a good idea to see what civs people want in any case.

Locutus, I allocated my 160 points in my original post differently than 10/civ after I read your post and realized that's what you wanted us to do.

	12-08-2001 23:20									#36
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My votes:


Vikings 20
Celts 10
Arabs 5
Dakota/Souix 10
Incas 10
Mayas 10
Bantu 10
Polynisian 10
Slavs 10
Turks 5
Ethiopian 10
Indus Valley people 10
Sumerians 20
Hebrews 10
Spanish 5
Mongol 5

	13-08-2001 00:25									#37
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Locutus ADG, Hehe, you still don't know the Civ3 civs by heart? You heretic! Anyway, as I said, because of this you still have 15 points to spend if you'd like to... I don't see a real reason for negative points: what reason could there possibly be to not include certain civs (other than them not being significant enough to deserve a place)?

Oh yeah, forgot about those 15 points, shouldn't I just say:

6. Australian - 15 + 5
7. Spanish - 15 + 5
8. Apache - 12 + 5

The thing about the negative points was actually just ment as a joke (but I realized it didn't sound jokish ) In my oppinion I think there should be as many civs as posible, so if there's a fight between 2+ civs, just take 'em all

	13-08-2001 00:44									#38
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well, updated the overall ranking again, now all votes up to heraitoi22 are included.

Lenius,
You voted for Ottoman Turks. I wasn't sure whether to put that under Turks, Ottomans or literally Ottoman Turks. For now I put them under Turks (since that is the noun), let me know if you want this changed.

Odin,
You voted for Dakota/Sioux. As you (should) know the points for this will go to Dakota.

Arator,
You didn't read my post very carefully, now did you? First you missed the 160 points thingie (which is not too bad) and now you overlook the paragraph that explains how to change your vote (which is much worse). I wanted you to post your changes in a new post, not edit your existing post. In this case it's okay since you originally didn't assign any points and I can thus easily see the changes but this does mean extra work for me (and this is very time-consuming already). Anyway, I'll change your vote in the next update.

Markos,
I agree it's off-topic and will leave it alone but one thing I do want to say: history is often defined as 'the interpretation of the past'. The word 'interpretation' does leave a lot of room for personal opinions, esp. when weighing facts against each other and filling in the gaps between the facts.

	13-08-2001 01:09									#39
	Suffering from ads?

Locutus,
you couldn't be without a great project, couldn't you.
When you got finished with the Oracle of Civs, (undertaken by paiktis22 but taken over by you) you have started the Apolytoners Suffrage...

Now I felt it's time for me to take part in this great project, and help you finish it , so I'll give you my list.

Vikings - 20
Mongols -20
Incas -15
Phoenicians -15
Arabs -15
Aborigines - 13
Vietnamese - 12
Olmecs -12
Trojans -11
Siamese -10
Eskimos - 9
Neanderthalians - 8

	13-08-2001 01:29									#40
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Uh, Neanderthalians?

I think that is *wee* bit out of the timeframe.

	13-08-2001 01:32									#41
	Increase Your PM Length

Locutus, you discovered a new purpose in life, haven't you?

Well here’s my contributions to this great piece of work...

1. Mongols
2. Spanish
3. Ottoman Turks
4. Arabs
5. Viking
6. Incas
7. Carthaginians
8. Ethiopians
9. Ghanaians

	13-08-2001 02:17									#42
	Support Apolyton

my suggestion, all civs below 20 points:

Dutch
Mongol
Viking
Inca
Celtic
Maya
Spanish
Portugese

	13-08-2001 03:26									#43
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Spanish - 20
Celts - 20
Viking - 10
Turks - 10
Mongol - 10
Phoenicia - 10
Assyrian - 10
Australian - 10
Canadian - 10
Polish - 10
Brazil - 10
Mexico - 10
Huns - 5
Portugal - 5

	13-08-2001 03:34									#44
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Arator -
Please vote for Hebrew. If you vote for Israelis your points are simply lost.

---

Now... Can I give all my votes to one civ?

	13-08-2001 03:49									#45
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I updated the ranking again, this time up to Colon's vote.

ADG,
I updated your votes. Yeah, a smily or two would have been in order

Gramphos,
Ah yes, I great projects And I'm already planning the next one too: the Apolyton Program In any case, your Caravans are gratefully accepted

BTW, finally someone votes for Siam! Is it me or is it just plain weird that many people vote for Khmer but non for Siam while the two are very similiar in many ways (the Siam perhaps even slightly more important historically than the Khmer)? I wonder if it could be related to that Tomb Raider movie? I haven't seen it but I understand Ankor Wat features in it, this may have given the Khmer their 15 minutes of (well-deserved) fame...
Your choice for Neanderthalers is a little odd (what Stefu said), though I suppose it's not forbidden or anything. What would you use as city names though, to my knowlegde Neanderthalers were nomads? Heck, did they even have (spoken) language?

Colon,
Well, I told you not to worry about me, that I'd find a new purpose...
For you goes the same as Lenius, you voted for Ottoman Turks. I'm not sure whether I should interpret that as Turks, Ottomans or even literally Ottoman Turks. Like with Lenius, I gave those points to the Turks, let me know if you want it changed...
Also, you gave me 9 civs but didn't give them any points, so I gave each civ 17 points. This means you still have 7 points left. Let me know if you still have a purpose for these points or if you want to distribute your points differently...
Oh, by 'Ghanaians' I presume you mean Ghanese (i.e. from Ghana)?

Eli,
I instituted the maximum of 20 points per civ specifically with you in mind You can vote for only 1 civ if you want to, but you can't give more than 20 points to it. So you can give your 20 points to the Hebrew and be done with it...

	13-08-2001 03:50									#46
	Re: Expansion Pack Civs: One more thread... (Let's do this right) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hebrew 20
Arab 20
Spanish 20
Mongol 20
Incas 20
Turks 20
Ethiopian 20
Aborigines 20

	13-08-2001 03:55									#47
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Spanish - 20
Arabs - 20
Turks - 20
Phoenicians - 20
Incas - 15
Mongols - 15
Portuguese - 15
Dutch - 15
Carthaginians - 10
Etruscans - 10

	13-08-2001 04:02									#48
	Got spare money?

Spanish
Portuguese
Arabs
Hebrew
Turks
Serbs
Mongols

	13-08-2001 04:05									#49
	Tired of ads?

Great! I've been looking for an excuse to post my wish list of civs

Arabs - 15
Carthaginians - 15
Inca - 15
Mali - 15
Mongols - 15
Spanish - 15
Turks - 15
Vikings - 15
Dutch - 10
Khmer - 10
Poles - 10
Byzantines - 5
Hebrews - 5

	13-08-2001 04:10									#50
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Hebrews - 20
Nigeria - 10
Scots - 10
Siamese - 10
Eskimos - 10
Ottomans - 10
Neanderthalians - 10
Hopi - 10
Hawaiian - 10
Navaho - 10
Yankee - 10
Native American - 10
Boer - 10
Hmong - 10
Tunguz - 10

	13-08-2001 04:14									#51
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ok eli

20 hebrew

	13-08-2001 04:18									#52
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You're a dirty - Hebrew - spammer, Eli! (but I you for it )

	13-08-2001 04:25									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Arator - Please vote for Hebrew. If you vote for Israelis your points are simply lost.

Why are they lost? Surely Locutus understands that Hebrews and Israelis are the SAME TRIBE! I'm just saying that I prefer the name "Israelis" to "Hebrews". Don't you?

	13-08-2001 04:30									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Bob Dornan

Are you THE Bob Dornan of Orange County? As in CONGRESSMAN BOB DORNAN?

If so, it is an honor to have join our company of Civ fanatics.

If not, it is still an honor. LOL.

	13-08-2001 04:32									#55
	Get a bigger avatar today!

1. Mongol - 20
2. Carthage - 20
3. Turkish - 20
4. Khmer - 20
5. Inca - 20
6. Assyrian - 20
7. Byzantines - 20
8. Maya - 20

	13-08-2001 04:37									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Arator Why are they lost? Surely Locutus understands that Hebrews and Israelis are the SAME TRIBE! I'm just saying that I prefer the name "Israelis" to "Hebrews". Don't you?

Of course I prefer Israeli rather than Hebrew, but Locutus said that he will take them as two different tribes. And if we need to choose between them, just see how many voted Hebrew and how many Israeli.

	13-08-2001 04:42									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

We should have dones this AGES ago!

My votes (all 20 points):

Vikings
Mongols
Arabs
Celts
Mayans
Phoenicians
Inca
Ethiopians

	13-08-2001 04:54									#58
	Got spare money?

1) Hebrew 20
2) Spanish 15
3) Inka 5
4) Mongol 15
5) Carthagians 15
6) Turks 10
7) Arabs 15
8) Assyrians 5
9) Huns 10
10) Viking 15
11) Maya 5
12) Byzantines 15
13) Nigeria 5
14) Kazakh 5
15) Slavic 5

	13-08-2001 04:58									#59
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Any one who gives the Celts 20 Points oh and/or the Welsh I will buy you a beer (If I ever meet you)

C'MON THE CELTS!!!

	13-08-2001 05:03									#60
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Incas 20
Arabs 20
Carthaginians 20
Vikings 15
Mayas 10
Khmer 10
Siamese 10
Koreans 10
Ethiopians 10
Phoenicians 10
Turks 10
Polish 10
Songhai 5