07-09-2000 00:28									#61
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Here are the key years for King level. Lower levels are left as an exercise for the reader .

-3850 * -925 * 460_ * 1330 * 1715 * 1853 * 1913 * 1973
-3650 * -825 * 540_ * 1370 * 1735 * 1857 * 1917 * 1977
-3450 * -725 * 620_ * 1410 * 1752 * 1861 * 1921 * 1981
-3250 * -625 * 700_ * 1450 * 1760 * 1865 * 1925 * 1985
-3050 * -525 * 780_ * 1490 * 1768 * 1869 * 1929 * 1989
-2850 * -425 * 860_ * 1515 * 1776 * 1873 * 1933 * 1993
-2650 * -325 * 940_ * 1535 * 1784 * 1877 * 1937 * 1997
-2450 * -225 * 1010 * 1555 * 1792 * 1881 * 1941 * 2001
-2250 * -125 * 1050 * 1575 * 1800 * 1885 * 1945 * 2005
-2050 * -25_ * 1090 * 1595 * 1808 * 1889 * 1949 * 2009
-1850 * 60__ * 1130 * 1615 * 1816 * 1893 * 1953 * 2013
-1650 * 140_ * 1170 * 1635 * 1824 * 1897 * 1957 * 2017
-1450 * 220_ * 1210 * 1655 * 1832 * 1901 * 1961 * 2021
-1250 * 300_ * 1250 * 1675 * 1840 * 1905 * 1965
-1050 * 380_ * 1290 * 1695 * 1848 * 1909 * 1969

Note to anyone who wasn't paying attention: King difficulty level only!!!
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited September 15, 2000).]

	07-09-2000 01:25									#62
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Davey-Dave - are you sure it goes 1986 -> 2000???

	08-09-2000 07:15									#64
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sorry I am stupid..

Does the SoL nullify these years and allow a revolution any turn?

	08-09-2000 08:35									#65
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yes.

	13-09-2000 01:59									#66
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DaveV

I have two observations on your list for King level. There appears to be a hiatus between year 1515 and 1635. Also, should the revolution year advance from 1792 to 1800 and then jump to 1818?

My observations are based only on mathematics and not on playtesting. Did you playtest your numbers?

	14-09-2000 17:57									#67
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Sigh. I should have known better than to take this on. I've updated the table, but I suspect I've made yet another error because my dates don't jibe with those reported by Smash. So speak up, anybody, if you see any mistakes...

	15-09-2000 05:30									#68
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Dave, your mistake is from 1695-1705. It SHOULD be 1715 instead of 1705, as those turns are still a revolution every 20 years in game terms.

	15-09-2000 06:12									#69
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I wonder if exceptions occur when you are lucky enough to get a government advance from a hut in a oedo year. In one of the earlier OCC comparison games, I got Monarchy from a hut in the year 725 BC and when I revolted, was not granted Monarchy in that year!

I haven't come across this anomaly in other games.

	15-09-2000 09:43									#70
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That's because you got the advance during the play fase of the turn. New governments are established in the beginning fase of the turn after it has processed all your cities, but before you start moving your units.

	15-09-2000 09:59									#71
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Thanks, Paul. Therefore if you get a government advance (Monarchy, Republic or Democracy) by exchange or popping a hut during a oedo year, wait four turns before revolting!

	15-09-2000 14:22									#72
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Surely, tonic, you mean 3 turns not four - if I have grasped this thing correctly the ideal is to discover the government tech in an 'oedo year' and accept the offer of a change of government on the spot. Failing that sort of micromanagement of science or discovery by hut, conquest, trade etc you should hold your Revolution in the turn preceeding the oedo year.

Someone please correct me if I have got the wrong end of the stick - again!

Good civin'

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"

	15-09-2000 16:37									#73
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SG1 - you're right. To put it very precisely, the revolt should come before the start of your turn on the oedo year. I say it this way because I discovered (to my relief) that you can revolt during another player's turn in MP.

SandMonkey - thanks for the correction. I've updated the king table yet again, but the numbers still don't match Smash's report ...

	17-09-2000 01:49									#74
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Dave, according to what Smash said, your chart is dead on.

quote: Originally posted by Smash on 09-04-2000 09:53 PM He did,1903 came and went without a change.Change happened in 1906 indicating revolt should have been done in 1901.

	17-09-2000 08:51									#75
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Yes a mistake my end could have happened easily.It probably was 1905.This looks good now.

	18-09-2000 00:06									#76
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Does this work with techs you get from huts as well (or in negotiation with other civs)? And, if so, since that is basically an instant revolution in the middle of a turn, can it work with the SoL on the turns indicated as another way to circumvent that annoying senate not wanting to go to war but not losing a turn to anarchy?

	18-09-2000 02:27									#77
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No.You can't have an "instant" revolution if you get government tech from a hut.

Yes.If the next turn is O,and the senate says "no war",then anarchy-attack-next turn new government.It worked for perfectly for me in a game.

	14-10-2000 03:50									#78
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I just discovered the GL thread and got lead to this one. Better late than never, I guess.

Just wanted to say how stunned I am that such a straightforward pattern was never noticed before and to extend my amazed congratulations to Oedo for 1) discovering it, and 2) sharing it.

I will most certainly keep this information close at hand for all future games!

	02-11-2000 18:33									#79
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***BUMP***

I was playing in a MP game the other night, and I had an embassy with my opponent. I noticed he went into revolt a few turns before a switch year. So obviously not everybody is aware of this yet, and I thought it was worth bumping!

------------------
Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

	07-11-2000 19:26									#80
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Hhhmm. What am I doing wrong? I had my copy of rah's helpful chart close to hand, monarchy came in, seemingly right on time, with the screen showing BC1650, an "O" year in the Oedo xxxo callender so I took the offer to change government. But my turn promptly ended without any screen appearing to announce my coronation. And I then had 3 years of anarchy with no tax income and no research taking place.

I was tired and maybe misread the screen somehow - or is it that the coronation always takes place the next year? If so you need to accept/initiate the change of gov.t on the year before the Oedo year. But, from recollection, you can get crowned during the same year you accept (which I have assumed, since reading Oedo's breakthrough, happened when, by coincidence, my research has given me the new form of gov.t in an Oedo year?

Looks like I'll have to experiment a couple of times in cheat mode to get the sequence of events right.

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited November 07, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited November 07, 2000).]</font>
[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited November 07, 2000).]

	07-11-2000 21:14									#81
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EST - If you're running version 2.42, the date on the screen is not to be trusted. At the beginning of your turn (when you're asked to change to a new government) it will show the date from your last turn. This appears to be fixed in MGE; I don't know about FW.

	08-11-2000 10:27									#82
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EastSideTrader, if you discouver Monarchy in the turn of Oedo's rev, then yes you can switch right away, but otherwise, rev after you have moved all of your units the turn before, hit done , and poof instant rev no disorder or lost science. This works for me everytime because when i first started doing it, i thought i could rev on the turn AFTER i moved my units, but this doesnt' work and then you wait three turns with anarchy

	08-11-2000 00:13									#83
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DaveV.

Yes, I have 2.42 so that's what happened. Amyway I'll probably experiment a bit to be sure I get it off pat. The period in anarchy didn't gripe me when I thought it was random. Thanks to oedo's gem it did when I screwed up this time.

Mercantile.

Thanks. Your point about before or after moving units is well worth noting.

	08-11-2000 23:22									#84
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According to what this is saying, the player moves last in an SP game? That is, that if you get offered the gov change in your own build segment of an Oedo year, take it as that's when it applies? I waited to the end of 1786 (Deity), then revolted -- instant change. Not clear on 2.42 year ID problem.

	09-11-2000 15:18									#85
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In v2.42 the year indicator on the right hand panel of the screen does not change to the current year until it is your turn to move. Thus the build queue events such as Wonder creation, temple creation and, critically, technical advances occur whilst the date indicator is one turn in retard. Thus, if you discover Monarchy whilst the date indicates 2100 BC take the offered Revolution because you are actually in 2050 BC (an 'O' for oedo) year.

I had assumed that it worked the same in MP!!! Fortunately I have not had to change governments in any of the Succession games thus far - else I would have had much egg on my face!! Thanks for that tip guys.



------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

	09-11-2000 16:15									#86
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To be a king in such a year - now what would I not cheerfully give for such a thing!

	09-11-2000 16:20									#87
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So an additional point must be, I suppose, that if you get, say, republic, from a trade route bonus that would happen during your turn and the 2.42 indicator would be accurate?

	13-11-2000 16:44									#88
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No, happened to me over the week-end.

Once the caravan fills the beaker box you then wait til the next build queue events stage before the advance registers. So you have to beware the 2.42 date in the same way as with advances completed by cities.

What I am not now sure about is the case of an advance gained by negotiation or theft during the turn phase of the game? Methinks an immediate acceptance of the offer to change gov.t may occur during the turn. If so it pays to keep a note of the date when going into negotiation because the date is not displayed by the negotiation screen.

	13-11-2000 18:45									#89
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Even though the date isn't shown on the negotiations screen, or when it asks if you want to change governments... Just minimize it, or move it out of the way so you see the date

	13-11-2000 23:09									#90
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LOL Ming, it took me two months to figure out how to do that, i was continually watching the clock before i would discover Monarchy as i could never see the damm date and then i would revolt after i said no and wait three turns I managed to figure it out eventually. Thanks to evolution of course.