25-08-2001 13:51									#1
	A complementary peaceful trigger for "Golden age" is needed. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The way I heard it, golden ages will be triggered by a civ-specific unit winning a battle. Thats OK, but I want an complementary peaceful trigger as well. If I am at peace with everyone, minding my own business, I dont want to be forced to pick an unprovoked fight (war without casus belli = less civ-points in Hall of fame, and less chance of achieving diplomatic victory), just to trigger that damn golden age. Any info, comments - any suggestions?

Also, in the Player Setup screen you have the option "Allow civ-specific abilities". Choosing "No" to this means no Civ-specific abilities table (obviously), but does it mean the exclusion of civ-specific units and golden age also?

Personally, I would like to keep the specific units and golden age, and only be given the choise of excluding the civ-specific abilities-table.

Last edited by Ralf on 25-08-2001 at 14:03

	25-08-2001 15:43									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well I reckon most sensible people would probably just go out of their way to kill a barbarian. When they see them approaching or landing, I can just see human players with hordes of special units dashing down to kill them. This is going to be a pain for the Americans, who will get the special unit very late which will make it difficult for them to find such barbarians to kill. Yeah, some special event should trigger it, perhaps acquiring a certain number of mini wonders or something in particular for that civ...

	25-08-2001 15:49									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Perhaps something dependent on the number of luxuries/resources that you have access to. Perhaps if you have access to 6 or more luxuries, for example (an amount that would require significant expansion, trade/diplomacy or conquest), then that should trigger a golden age!

	25-08-2001 15:51									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Donīt know if that has been mentioned before, but canīt you simply attack the Barbs if you are in peace with the other civs?

	25-08-2001 17:42									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Like they said, there are always barbarians. But maybe a diplomatic or economic method might be nice too, like having peace with every nation in the world, or having trade routes stretch across the globe, that sort of thing. Of course, if you where to use one of these methods before you get your special unit, you won't be able to get another golden age.

	25-08-2001 17:58									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

And that's why I set barbarians nice and high. "Villages only?" Bleh. That's for WIMPS. "Raging Hordes" all the way for me. Is that another Barbarian ship ready to do battle? Goody, goody, time to send over the special units....

	25-08-2001 19:11									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Wouldn't it have more sense to have the golden age trigger once you have built x number of special units.

The Nuclear Age would still be ushered in even if Fat Man and Litle Boy weren't used against Japan.

	25-08-2001 23:58									#8
	Remove this text

Defeating a barbarian with a special unit does not trigger a golden age. You must defeat another civ.

	26-08-2001 01:49									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Pembleton Defeating a barbarian with a special unit does not trigger a golden age. You must defeat another civ.

How do you know that. All firaxis said is that a golden age is triggered when you first win a battle with a special unit. No mention of who against at all...

	26-08-2001 02:22									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

a firaxis member said that somewhere before Provost, I was disappointed too. I mean, is this Civ 3 or Barbarism 3?

	26-08-2001 02:26									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

This is not Civ 3 OR Barbarism 3. It's
Build-a-Nuke-For-Every-City-You-Do-Not-Control-and-Nuke-Them-All-In-One-Turn 3!

	26-08-2001 02:30									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Pembleton Defeating a barbarian with a special unit does not trigger a golden age. You must defeat another civ.

A small correction: It was pointed out elsewhere that it's defeating an enemy with an elite unit -- not a civ-specific unit -- that triggers a golden age. So it can be any unit that's achieved elite status (i.e., more than veteran).

I don't know the answer on the barbarian / other-civ issue...

	26-08-2001 02:34									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"This is not Civ 3 OR Barbarism 3. It's
Build-a-Nuke-For-Every-City-You-Do-Not-Control-and-Nuke-Them-All-In-One-Turn 3"
LOL

I wish someone could back me up on the barbarian/other civ issue, I seem to recall some firaxis member talking about it in an interview of some sort.

	26-08-2001 02:40									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: It was pointed out elsewhere that it's defeating an enemy with an elite unit -- not a civ-specific unit -- that triggers a golden age.

Taken from the Civ 3 website developer update:
Golden ages only occur once, last twenty game turns, and are triggered when any one of your civ-specific units wins its first combat against another civ.


It says a win against another civ... I don't think barbarians are considered a civ... but I could be wrong.

	26-08-2001 03:16									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I am a bit behind the times, what specifically does the golden age give. I presume its increased culture/economy/military/science or something?

	26-08-2001 03:22									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by shum00 Taken from the Civ 3 website developer update: Golden ages only occur once, last twenty game turns, and are triggered when any one of your civ-specific units wins its first combat against another civ.

Oops, I stand corrected! I must have been thinking of Great Leaders...

	26-08-2001 10:54									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch I am a bit behind the times, what specifically does the golden age give. I presume its increased culture/economy/military/science or something?

Click and read: http://civ.strategy-gaming.com/civ3...l#golden%20ages
"During a "golden age", all worked tiles in your empire contribute one additional trade and shield per turn".

	26-08-2001 12:25									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

When a Panzer unit wins his first battle does that mean that the Second World War was the German Golden Age?

	26-08-2001 13:21									#19
	Put an end to popups!

quote: This is not Civ 3 OR Barbarism 3. It's Build-a-Nuke-For-Every-City-You-Do-Not-Control-and-Nuke-Them-All-In-One-Turn 3"

That would be Nukeism!

quote: When a Panzer unit wins his first battle does that mean that the Second World War was the German Golden Age?

Yes, Lord of the Mark has posted a similar thing somewhere, and I also think there would be better choices for the German Golden Age...

	26-08-2001 19:57									#20
	Got spare money?

Oh wait a minute, the panzer unit was first used in the First World War.
But that is also a weird Golden Age ...
After the Great War Germany had an economic crisis.

I think the 19th century was a Golden Age for the Germans. This is what I got from an encyclopedia:
Germany changed in that time from an unorganised agricultural country to a powerfull industrial nation, with many culture (music like Wagner, Strauss and Brahms, literature (like the progressive group writers 'Jung Deutschland' who supported emancipation of women and Jews) and Jugendstil-artists.
But what is an unit from that age?

	26-08-2001 21:08									#21
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Errrr... mistake there. The Armor (tank) unit was first used in WWI, but the panzer was an exclusively WWII German unit.

	26-08-2001 21:12									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Even worse!

	26-08-2001 21:17									#23
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Uhm, the gameplay doesn't follow real world history, there is no such thing as world war two (not as we know it, anyways) in a civ game.

	26-08-2001 22:12									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Osweld Uhm, the gameplay doesn't follow real world history, there is no such thing as world war two (not as we know it, anyways) in a civ game.

Good point. Have you guys ever managed to recreate both ww1, ww2 and the cold war in any Civ-2 main game? I was under the impression you needed to play a scenario for that.

	26-08-2001 23:51									#25
	Support Apolyton

If there is to be a pathway to achieve a golden age when you are at peace it should through culture. Not a set amount of cultural points you would have to reach because that would lead to having golden ages only in the latter parts of the game. Instead it should be by reaching an average of cultural points you are earning each turn. Lets say once you start earning 25 cultural points per turn. There should also be a special determining factor that will manipulate your average, time period. Since the farther you are along in the game the more cultural points you will be earning because of time passing. Even though you will have more turns passes later in the game the ratio of points per turn will have been changed because of all of your aged cultural improvements. In order to counteract this there will be a negative bonus for the more modernized your age is. If the time period is ancient you won't receive a NB (negative bonus), the middle ages you might receive a 5 NB, in the Renaissance you might receive a 10 NB, etc... Your average (cultural points divided by turns) will be decreased by subtracting the NB. Having this means that you would be able to achieve your golden age at any point in time in the game; of course you can only get one golden age per game, though.

	27-08-2001 03:56									#26
	Tired of ads?

Perhaps a good Golden age tactic would be to save it for when your losing a war having a lot of your cities taken(maybe if they've all revolted and gone to other civs)
You could keep a Special unit on the back lines or in combat but with a couple of defencive units to keep it intact, to use to trigger a Golden age.
The problems with this - if your civs wiped out and you can't do GA you'd have missed out -could have used it earlier.

Also, maybe its best not to get into too big a war too early before you can go Golden age, especially close enemy wars where your home is threatened. This is mainly as if other enemy civs are going GA in a war they'll probably win.

Having staggered Golden ages with GA civs of different eras is interesting, perhaps its best not to fight a civ with a GA in similar time to you, maybe attacking america as its GA can only happen late.

PJ Thawley - - tired and twisted

	27-08-2001 04:45									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

the best trigger in my opinion is to start a golden age when a civ builds its CSU...this would only slighty speed up a militaristic player's golden age and it wouldn't force a pacifist to goto war to start a golden age

	27-08-2001 07:00									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: the best trigger in my opinion is to start a golden age when a civ builds its CSU

The reason why I like my idea more (go to my previous post for more info) is because it will not depict history as much. It will enable there to be a different golden age time for each civ on every game. some may not even receive a golden age and rightfully so. prosperity is supposedly only supposed to be met when you are at peace. usually a golden age occurs during time periods of great prosperity. therefore having culture as the trigger would be more accurate. having the building of a CSU or winning of a battle with a CSU would make each civ have it's golden age at the same time period every game. this will eventually lead to a predictable and boring game. having the CSU being the trigger also takes away from rewriting history. why should the Greeks be limited/forded to a golden age in the ancient time period. the Greeks should be able to have their golden age in the modern times as well. who knows what could have happend/will happen if a few things in history were to be modified. the Greeks may not have even ever gone through a golden age. my point is that a civ should have it's the POSSIBILITY of it's golden age TO OCCUR AT ANY TIME PERIOD.

Sorry about the lack of organization in my post.

	27-08-2001 07:52									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It is a good idea to have a separate trigger for Golden Age other than the CSU win. My first idea is a set of criteria that a player can meet, with the possibility of different sets of conditions in various ages.

	27-08-2001 08:03									#30
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Errrr... mistake there. The Armor (tank) unit was first used in WWI, but the panzer was an exclusively WWII German unit.

Germany didn't use any tanks during WWI. Only the British and French had them during WWI.