30-08-2001 20:45									#1
	Does anyone remember MOOCE? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

MOOCE = Master Of Orion Common Experience. This was apparently a standardized method for comparing games. It seems to have involved recording progress in your game at regular intervals.

I say "apparently" and "seems to" because I never did this. I've seen references to it on old websites, but no details. I was a fanatical MOO player in my pre-internet days, so just played the game on my own and missed out on any community activities. I've started playing the game again after reading some discussions at Apolyton, and would be interested in starting up like MOOCE.

Does anyone remember how MOOCE worked?

	31-08-2001 16:46									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Never heard of it, sorry.

	12-09-2001 02:44									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hi,

Well, it was a save game file (1st turn) that people would download and play. Then there was a reporting scheme to follow: for exemple , explore this system, colonized that one, discovered fusion cells, ... That way you could compare your results with others.

It was nothing multiplayer. It was just a way to report what happenned in your game and see other people experience.

I've played the game, but I was too lazy to follow the reporting guidelines. It was a bit tedious to report and to read other reports.

I don't have the reporting scheme that was developped. To start a MOOCE you would have to redevellop that.

Rhuffin

	20-09-2001 22:42									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

A follow-up of my previous post. I did a little research and a little remenberring since.

MOOCE was initialized by Richard Taillon back in 1995 (the URL was http://step.polymtl.ca/~ritz/mooce.html, but don't rush it's been dead for quite a while).

To quote the MOO FAQ v2.8

"The idea behind MOOCE is simply to have many MOO addicts play the same
game and compare notes on what happened. To do this, we define a
simple way to record MOO events (lists), and some reports you have to
fill out each 10 years of your game.

Some games will be lost, other will be won. BOTH loosing and winning
games are important. It may help those less experienced MOO players to
see what the experience ones do to win, and where they diverge from
others.

This is done simply for the FUN of it! It is NOT a competition, and NO
winner will be selected. Since the caliber of the game is HARD, some
players will have difficulty completing it. That particular level was
selected to give a reasonable challenge for experience players.

REQUIREMENTS OF MOOCE

You will need Master Of Orion version 1.3, a pad of paper and a
pencil. You will also need to fill out the MOOCE Game report.

MOOCE was created (and is administered ) by: ritz@step.polymtl.ca"

(end of quote)

Most of the discussion around the subject occured in the comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic USENET group.

You can find several post on the subject with a google search:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=MOOCE

The following URL links to a post describing the MOOCE guidelines for reporting what happened in your game.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=M...ub.cc.ukans.edu

From what I remenber, only the first MOOCE games was released. The second one (MOOCE2) was not seen. I was unable to find the saved game file that was the basis of MOOCE1.

That concludes my internet archeological study of the day ;-)

	30-01-2002 07:07									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Would anyone be interested in a sort of MOOCE here?

I have found comparison games in Civ2 (OCC in particular) both instructive and fun (because of the communal aspect). I would surmise from the presence of more random events in MoO1 that results would tend to vary somewhat even for two equally skilled players!

As I am still learning the game, I am interested in the instructive aspects ie learning by example from a specific starting position. If those more experienced do not feel it beneath them, I'd suggest an initial comparison game at my level ie Average, large universe of five races.

If there is interest, I wonder if we could canvasss opinions on the minimum requirements for the (important) log. Of course there is the need to balance critical info with the time and chore involved. The OCC model in Civ2 might be a useful starting point.

	30-01-2002 18:47									#6
	Tired of ads?

I always play small universes, so I have a chance of finishing in a reasonable amount of time. As far as difficulty goes, I wouldn't mind playing an average game, as long as we used one of the more difficult races (Mrrshans/Alkaris/Bulrathi). Playing as Klackons or Humans is worth another difficulty level, IMO.

I would see a minimum log as including all techs discovered, with dates and sources (trades, artifact planets, steals, or research). A record of planets colonized/captured and dates would also probably be mandatory. Nice but probably not required: ship designs, diplomatic interactions, battle results.

The most useful thing for comparison purposes is to save games at set intervals. Opening a save game gives you a lot of information on spying, research, ship design, resource allocation, etc. Writing about saved games makes me wonder about a MoO succession game...

By the way, it is possible to disable random events. You have to remember to turn them off each time you load up the game, or an event will trigger right away. You have to type RANDOM while holding the Alt key, I think.

	30-01-2002 23:03									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

ALT EVENTS will stop random events, you will need to do it everytime you load the game, same as ALT GALAXY.

	31-01-2002 11:38									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think DaveV has provided a promising starting point:

1. Medium universe of 4(?) races with
Hard level for any advantageous race, or
Average level for (Mrrshans/Alkaris/Bulrathi)

2. Random events disabled

3. Log should include
.All techs discovered
.Dates and sources (trades, artifact planets, steals, or research).
.Record of planets colonized/captured and dates

4. Game saved say every 30-40 years.

Comments please from all interested.

I'm not sure what others think about the smallest universe playable. I haven't played on a Small universe (only Medium and Large) but will go with any consensus on this. The point on manageable brevity is well-taken though.

	31-01-2002 12:21									#9
	Remove this text

Hard, small Klackons the only way to go, 4 or 5 players, is my normal game. Probably played 8 or 900 games at that setting.

	31-01-2002 18:13									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Rhuffin A follow-up of my previous post. I did a little research and a little remenberring since. MOOCE was initialized by Richard Taillon back in 1995 MOOCE was created (and is administered ) by: ritz@step.polymtl.ca"

Why wont somebody try to clear some questions about MOOCE with Richard Taillon at the mail above, or at this one: richard_taillon@yahoo.com ?

	06-02-2002 05:13									#11
	Support Apolyton

Everyone happy with vmxa1's suggested universe (on top of DaveV's basics) for the initial go?

Some ground rules would also need to be agreed on I guess. One set that comes to mind would be the validity of "cheats" arising from bugs in version 1.3 ie the change of direction when retreating from a planet and the single-move from a planet with a Stargate to one without.

	06-02-2002 18:41									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I've seized the bull by the horns and started a new thread for a comparison game.