02-09-2001 07:28									#1
	What is Civ 3 combat going to be like??? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Guys one of the major reasons im still skeptical about Civ 3 is combat sequence.

Will it be the same old crap like Civ2, one unit vs one unit! Boring, simple, and incedibly annoying!

Or is it going to be stacks of armys, crashing into another stack. Void of that unit vs unit crap. 5 units fight at the same time vs 5 other units. May the best unit win? Kinda like in Call to Power

Hopefully you have an answer
thanks

	02-09-2001 11:06									#2
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wow. someone get this man some glasses.

goto civ3.com, or search this site for the term "armies".

	02-09-2001 14:09									#3
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but what if you don't have an army, but have 3 or 4 unit in the same square and you're attacked, how does it work then ?

	02-09-2001 14:53									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy but what if you don't have an army, but have 3 or 4 unit in the same square and you're attacked, how does it work then ?

Then they attack/defend as indevidual units who just happen to stand on the same square, I guess. One at the time. Or perhaps the whole unorganized unit-stack gets wiped out if the strongest defender looses out (like in Civ-2). If one also can move around unorganized unit-stacks collectively, I dont know.

Frankly, the info on both unorganized and organized unit-stacks (organized = armies) have been rather confusing and contradictive so far, with lots of blank spots. First they talked about army-stacks where the appropriate defender/attacker-unit did his duty until he was wounded. Then he automatically step backwards, and his shoulder-body promptly steps forward to continue the work. All in an automatic sequential matter.
Then suddenly armys could only contain max 3-4 units, and they all "pool their hitpoints". If they still talks about the same idea, and how non-army stacks works, I dont know. Even hitpoints and firepower/era-classification for each civ-specific special unit is held under secrecy. Beats me why.

	02-09-2001 15:40									#5
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I'm wondering if units can still be damaged since we have seen no damage bars like those in civ2. And how does hitpoints work if you cannot be damaged?
Eventhough the damage system might be slightly unrealistic I thought it worked out great in civ2. This ment that you could always win a battle if you had enough troops.
Now I fear its out, and the single pikeman will once again hold the city against swarms of attackers!

But still I wonder, cause how will the bombarding attacks of artillery work if they can't damage but only destroy enemies?

Has anyone got a resonable explanation?

	02-09-2001 16:10									#6
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Sorry I just noticed: There are damage bars! You can even see how many hitpoints each unit has!
Knights look like 5 or 6 if the round one on top counts.

	02-09-2001 16:56									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf Even hitpoints and firepower/era-classification for each civ-specific special unit is held under secrecy. Beats me why.

I canīt prove it but I guess that

• the number of hitpoints now depends on the unitīs experience level (regular unit 3 hitpoints, veteran 4, elite 5),
  
• Firaxis has simply got rid of firepoints, tweaking attack and defense values instead.

	02-09-2001 18:02									#8
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quote: Originally posted by lockstep I canīt prove it but I guess that the number of hitpoints now depends on the unitīs experience level (regular unit 3 hitpoints, veteran 4, elite 5), Firaxis has simply got rid of firepoints, tweaking attack and defense values instead.

On the screenshoots it looks like the knight has 6 hitpoints, the spearmen and other infantry have 4 or 5, the workers have 1, and the both ships have 6.
I think you're right when you guess that veteran and elite units have more hitpoints, but I think it would be to big a coincidence if both ships were elite. So each type of unit probably has its own basic amount of hitpoints, one hitpoint is added to this amount if the unit is veteran, and two if it's elite. Hopefully this explains the workers single hitpoint aswell.

	02-09-2001 18:52									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf Or perhaps the whole unorganized unit-stack gets wiped out if the strongest defender looses out (like in Civ-2).

You seem to have missed this.

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis There is no collateral damage in Civ III, so stacks are not wiped out after a loss.

It was actually a newsitem.

	02-09-2001 19:53									#10
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See, there is still no clear answer to my question. So this issue is still up in the air. Whether combat will be stacked like in CTP or single unit like in Civ2. I too have read countless confliction about stacking combat and the old Civ2 model. I wish this Question could be answered!

quote: wow. someone get this man some glasses.

who needs them now

	02-09-2001 20:00									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Saddam See, there is still no clear answer to my question. So this issue is still up in the air. Whether combat will be stacked like in CTP or single unit like in Civ2. I too have read countless confliction about stacking combat and the old Civ2 model. I wish this Question could be answered!

Exactly what do you mean by stacked as in CTP?
Armies is a sort of stack, and in combats they act as the best soldier fight first, when wounded to a maximum level it steps back and the next soldier fights.

	02-09-2001 20:06									#12
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In Call to Power you can have a stack of 9 tanks, and attack a stack of 9 Machine gunners. Ok you then go to a combat screen and all 9 tanks fight the 9 machine gunners at the same time. Thus, the best units win, whilst fighting at the same time. If one unit gets destroyed, he simply doubles up.

In Civ2, combat was unit vs unit. You could have a stack of 9 warriors, inside a city is 4 phalanx. You attack one bye one, throwing single warriors at the city.

	02-09-2001 20:11									#13
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Then I think it will be a combination. I don't remember X right now, but I think that there is a maximum of X units in an army, and I don't think there is a combat screen. The soldiers fight one by one, but retreat when they are almost killed and hand over the fighting to the next unit.

	02-09-2001 20:14									#14
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Well, because of PBEM.....Its definately worth buying.


Well Im off to church, smell ya later