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El hidalgo
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For those who know about Chinese history, was there really a "rider" unit? Anyone else besides me wish they had gone with the Boxer (pic: http://teachpol.tcnj.edu/amer_pol_h...umbnail257.html) or some other unit instead? Even though the Boxer could hardly have been said to usher in a golden age....
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RobC
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Viking
Chinese special unit could have been an inexpensive worker unit... |
...which would virtually guarantee that China could never have a golden age (when was the last time you saw a settler/worker win a battle?)
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El hidalgo
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quote:
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Who knows and who cares? It is a game, for Christs sake, lets make it fun and stop nitpicking little things. We will not know how it works until we see the whole game working in unison...you can't just an oilpainting from a square milimetre of canvas now, can you? It's whinge, whinge, whinge with some of you, and for no good reason either  |
OK, how would you feel if instead of archers we had the clown unit, who hurls coconut cream pies at the enemy? Is it unthinkable that a phony unit could mar your enjoyment of the game even a little? (And no, the rider, if it is indeed a phony unit as I suspect, won't put me off that much, not as much as a clown).
If the rider is a phony unit, that is; it doesn't ring true to me, but then I admit to my ignorance of Chinese military history.
Not whinging, just discussing. If anyone knows more about the subject, I'd be glad to hear. But it sounds to me, and forgive me if it seems rude to say so, that you are just whining about whining. If you really don't care, why bother to reply to this thread at all?
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yin26
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This space reserved for Darkstar.
Apr 1999
time: 14:15
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I will give it my best shot in the Civs section...
[EDIT: The thread is here.]
Last edited by yin26 on 06-09-2001 at 05:54
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Lung
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of my princess Anastasia!
Mar 1999
time: 15:15
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quote:
Originally posted by El hidalgo
OK, how would you feel if instead of archers we had the clown unit, who hurls coconut cream pies at the enemy? |
So, who's going to make the "Clown Civ" scenario, huh?  You know, King Bozo of the Circus Clowns. The special unit could be the "pie-chucker", which, instead of having bonuses in attack, defence, or movement, instead lowers opposing units' defence ratings! Think of the endless possibilities!!!
Sounds;
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Whoopie-cushions
nose-horns
water squirts
Graphics
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movement with big floppy feet
attack with cream pies
etc
Buildings
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pie factory (in lieu factory)
circus (in lieu colliseum)
Just think of the diplomacy! You know - you go to speak to King Bozo, and he arrives to stupid clown music. When you actually speak to him, he squirts you with water from a flower on his chest, then shakes you hand in apology, only to find he's got a buzzer in his hand
The possiblities are endless!!!
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monkspider
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banned
Aug 2001
time: 23:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Lung
So, who's going to make the "Clown Civ" scenario, huh? You know, King Bozo of the Circus Clowns. The special unit could be the "pie-chucker", which, instead of having bonuses in attack, defence, or movement, instead lowers opposing units' defence ratings! Think of the endless possibilities!!!
Sounds;
----------
Whoopie-cushions
nose-horns
water squirts
Graphics
-----------
movement with big floppy feet
attack with cream pies
etc
Buildings
-----------
pie factory (in lieu factory)
circus (in lieu colliseum)
Just think of the diplomacy! You know - you go to speak to King Bozo, and he arrives to stupid clown music. When you actually speak to him, he squirts you with water from a flower on his chest, then shakes you hand in apology, only to find he's got a buzzer in his hand
The possiblities are endless!!! |
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Edward
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Since the Mongols are gone, a mounted special unit seems ok for the Chinese. As an ignorant pop-culture-raised American, I would have liked the "rider" to have a cool Asian-sounding name (however inaccurate), be wielding a bow, and have multicolored samurai-esque armor.
I'd love to have a super worker be my special unit, even if I don't get a Golden Age. My Civ2 settlers and engineers can never work quickly enough.
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YefeiPi
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Canada
Jul 2001
time: 00:15
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Hell ya, I'm disappointed. There are better suited units out there for China than riders. However, China is the earliest nation to excel at horse riding, so I mean even if Firaxis made a mistake, it's not too much of one.
hell, besides, maybe I will enjoy kicking other civ's asses with my riders!
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YefeiPi
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Canada
Jul 2001
time: 00:15
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quote:
If the mongols aren't in their horsepower can be shown through the chinese(who were influenced by mongols and are basically the same) in their rider unit, (super knight) , the eastern horse cavalry were powerful and conquered a large empire (Mongol Hordes) and the chinese had this too. |
Mongols are the same as Chinese? Ok...
China was one of the, if not THE earliest nation to excel at horseback riding, I'm sure way before mongols even existed.
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PGM
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Lisboa, Portugal
Aug 2001
time: 05:15
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One more thing, the Rider (4/4/3), despite the terrible name, is extremely powerful and surprisingly fast, which fits well the Chinese civ which is now Militaristic. From the movie we've all just seen, the Modern Armor also has a movement factor of 3, so this shows how important this knight can be in its proper period of time.
As someone pointed out, it can step out of a city where it was fortified, attack, and enter again. And let's not forget that the movement factor of 3 will be 9 (!) on road, so imagine the possibilities, as a couple of these babies patrol your borders. 
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Dida
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Chinese mounted troops and other type of troops are powerful. The reason they were not famous is because China is more famous for something else, not for its military might. But remember, Han Empire existed about the same time as Roman Empire, and was bigger in size and more culturely advanced. Also notice the Huns, who after being defeated by the Chinese migrate across Central Aisan and conquer much of the the eastern Europe. China being able to defeat such powerful mounted enemy means it's good on horse back too.
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Chow Yun Fat
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Hong Kong, China
Feb 2000
time: 05:15
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I will be posting some educated guess, not well-researched materials. So please take it with a BIG grain of salt.
And please make correction to my pinyin. I learnt my history in Chinese.
In the Chinese language, China means 'Central Empire'. The central part of China at pre-modern time is the 'pocket' of the Yellow River, (If I remember correctly, it's a flooding plain.) The land is good for farming but not very good for massive horse-breeding. Horses do not travel with ease in that area without roads.
The followings were depicted in quite a number of Chinese operas and novels, (but not in history books. Chinese official history did not usually record details of a battle). There were a lot of extraneous information added as favors. But I am quite certain that I had not quoted lores. (Nothing like Hercules, Merlin ,Siegfried, or people who can leap to the roof and fly [Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon]  )
1. Horses in Central part of China were usually used by the rich (as carriage to faraway places, for short travel, they use sedans), by the officials (as couriers), and by the generals (riding a horse is a kind of privledge). A small group of elites would also ride the horses to the battle but the effect was usually rather small.
Some may argue that in ancient China, war wagons were used often. But the number of infantry support far exceeded war wagons. In the "warring state" period, it were claimed that a certain general had buried 400,000 captives. At that time, a big state would have 1000 wagons (There should be some quote about this in the Sun Tzu or Wu Tzu. The learned please confirm)
2. Infantry with swords, scimitars, and polearm-like weapon were usually seen. (I had not recalled seeing Chinese battling with lance in any novels and operas.)
3. Bows were used but it had usually been used as cover fire (I'm not very sure of this). There were two famous (yet unofficial) description of use of bows and x-bows. Both in the 3 Kingdom period and with ZhugeLiang. (Borrowing arrows using straw boats [there're more than 100,000 arrows involved]) (The making of Chukonu [x-bow that fired multiple arrows]) There was a Chinese saying that 'Shoot the horse before shoot a man, Capture the leader before capture all the bandits'.
4. Pikes, not cavalry, were used as defensive weapons against barbarians cavalry charges (South Sung period, Vs the Liu empire and Kam empire)
5. Battle vs the 'barbarians' in the western deserts were also made mainly by infantry. (not even camels, try to see the movie Wulan made by Disney. )
All these long-winded paragraphs were to illustrate that
"Chinese was not famous in using horses in combat"
If I were to devise some kind of special units for Chinese, I will choose 'Yan-Hoi' (literally 'Man-Sea', translation probably being 'hordes of human'). Huge number of HP, so-so attack and defense, slow movement, requires 1 pop point to create.
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06-09-2001 01:00
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