06-09-2001 19:31									#1
	Civilization III preview in Finnish gaming magazine Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The Finnish gaming magazine "Pelit" (Finnish for "games") had a three-page Civ III preview in their September edition. Here are some nice tidbits o' information from the preview (based on the reporters' test game):

- A people with lower Culture value is more easily oppressable in diplomacy.

- Citizens of Republics and Democracies do not like the slaving of Workers and Settlers.

- One resource square is enough for your whole empire, as long as the road network from the square to your capitol is intact.

- There is a "histographic" way of victory - the civilization with most impact to world history wins in the endgame.

- The fate of multiplayer is still unknown, and it is highly possible that multiplayer gaming is added via a patch or add-on disk.

- The computer does not cheat, except when playing on the "Deity" difficulty level.

	06-09-2001 19:37									#2
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wow
history impact win? so that you cannot sit back and be a sissy the whole game throughout?
sounds hmmmm....interesting....

	06-09-2001 19:38									#3
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The computer doews not cheat whooooo.. that is a major improvement.. what is the diffenece in difficulty levels? making the AI to have different strategies? ... surely interesting

no multiplayer at the beginning... I guess many will be disappointed. but better no than a CTP 2 one.

	06-09-2001 19:41									#4
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quote: The fate of multiplayer is still unknown, and it is highly possible that multiplayer gaming is added via a patch or add-on disk.

But I bet the box has already been printed: "World's most amazing MP experience out of the box!"

Deja-vu?

	06-09-2001 19:47									#5
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Also included in the preview was this shot of the game's European DVD case cover art:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/patrik.laiho/civcover.jpg

Edit: Image uploaded to my home page instead of attaching

	06-09-2001 19:53									#6
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 But I bet the box has already been printed: "World's most amazing MP experience out of the box!" Deja-vu?

really out of the box

Seriously, I think is a bit early to assume MP is delayed: you can fit it into CD until last minute before Going Gold.
I can't see how a magazine can know that, if not for Firaxis officially announcing main trouble on MP
Yin, did you take a vacation in Finland, recently?

"History impact" victory doesn't appear on Setup Screen as Firaxis showed early. My bet: it is the very same of Culture victory, under another name.

	06-09-2001 19:53									#7
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That cover art is totally different to the cover art I have seen before.

But this also seems to suggest that slavery is a concept in Civ3...interesting...

	06-09-2001 19:54									#8
	Re: Civilization III preview in Finnish gaming magazine Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Patriqvium - Citizens of Republics and Democracies do not like the slaving of Workers and Settlers.

Quite interesting. So, if i change to demcrocay while commanding a bunch of foreign workers, my native citizens will become unhappy, too?

quote: - The fate of multiplayer is still unknown, and it is highly possible that multiplayer gaming is added via a patch or add-on disk.

To cite civ3.com: 'It has always been challenging to make multiplayer really fun in turn-based games and we're looking at new ways of approaching that.'

How about out-of-the-box multiplayer support? Wouldnīt that be a new way?

quote: - The computer does not cheat, except when playing on the "Deity" difficulty level.

Or at least the reporter didnīt notice it.

	06-09-2001 20:04									#9
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ProvostH, lockstep: As someone once pointed out, slavery can be performed by capturing foreign workers and settlers with your military units. The interesting thing about it is that other civs will react to slavery according to their government type: A Despotism could not be less interested about it, while a Democracy may cancel your nice profitable trade deal.

Some other eavesdrops:

- Great Leaders may be used to hurry a city's construction project - very nice when you're building a wonder

- Captured cities will be negative to the conqueror until a peace treaty is signed - after that their loyalty will increase, but almost never to the level of a single-nationality city.

- You may perform small-scale ethnic cleansing by choosing which population unit is used when building Settlers of Workers.

	06-09-2001 20:13									#10
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Patriqvium, you donīt withhold any tidbits anymore, do you?

	06-09-2001 20:19									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Patriqvium Some other eavesdrops: - Great Leaders may be used to hurry a city's construction project - very nice when you're building a wonder - Captured cities will be negative to the conqueror until a peace treaty is signed - after that their loyalty will increase, but almost never to the level of a single-nationality city. - You may perform small-scale ethnic cleansing by choosing which population unit is used when building Settlers of Workers.

If confirmed, some of these news make me feel the game less "conservative", hence more interesting to me

Come on Firaxis, give yourself a favour: make a (limited) build of Civ III the week before the game launch, put it in download area and let us applaude your efforts.

Don't call it a demo, by no means: call it an AS IS build

	06-09-2001 20:25									#12
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Well, I just finished reading the preview for the second time. Here's everything I got out from it:

- You will see mountain squares from longer distances than other squares. Also, the LOS of an unit located on a mountain square is better than usual.

- Computer players seem to have better reasons for starting wars. "Plain insanity" and "we don't simply like you" do not belong to the category "good reasons".

	06-09-2001 22:01									#13
	Re: Civilization III preview in Finnish gaming magazine Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Patriqvium - A people with lower Culture value is more easily oppressable in diplomacy.

quote: - Citizens of Republics and Democracies do not like the slaving of Workers and Settlers.

What do they mean by "slaving"? DO they mean bribing? Or will we be able to Ŧcaptureŧ units we beat in battle just like in colonization? Update me please

quote: - One resource square is enough for your whole empire, as long as the road network from the square to your capitol is intact.

Talking about GUARDING your resources then Mayhem

quote: - There is a "histographic" way of victory - the civilization with most impact to world history wins in the endgame.

Since we don;t know how Ŧimpactŧ is being calculated

quote: - The fate of multiplayer is still unknown, and it is highly possible that multiplayer gaming is added via a patch or add-on disk.

Looks to me like they run out of time.

quote: - The computer does not cheat, except when playing on the "Deity" difficulty level.

The moment the AI doesn;t cheat is the moment the Pope will become protestant

	06-09-2001 22:05									#14
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So when they plain don't likeme, they'll come UP with a "better" reason...

WOW! Excellent new info here! From nationality of populations to slavery to a better AI... I didn't any more excitement while I await this game!

	06-09-2001 22:06									#15
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Surely "slaving" is a mistranslation of some sort, or else we are looking at the existence of a slavery system of some sort in Civ 3!

	06-09-2001 22:08									#16
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Also, i think we can agree that the histiographic victory is one that can only be reached with no one winning by any other means by a certain date.

	06-09-2001 22:19									#17
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I love these! Especially some addressing of slavery!

Of course, ancients would capture a whole city, and enslave most of the population, and build wonders with them. It appears you could do this in Civ3, but it would take centuries.

But you can workers and settlers, tell them to , although neighbouring civs may about your human rights violations.

AI doesn't cheat except in Deity?

quote: - You will see mountain squares from longer distances than other squares. Also, the LOS of an unit located on a mountain square is better than usual.

This is the only one I think is kind of hokey. I mean, can you really "see" 400 miles, normally, so 600 miles when you're on a mountain? More likely a unit in mountainous terrain will be harder to detect, and have less of an idea of what units are nearby.

Thanks Patriq for the info! Far more than tidbits!

	06-09-2001 22:19									#18
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Also, i think we can agree that the histiographic victory is one that can only be reached with no one winning by any other means by a certain date.

So could it just be the good old powergraph?

But it said Ŧimpact on the worldŧ whereas the powergraph was the cumulative poewr and achievements of your civ ALONE (albeit in relation with other civs).

	06-09-2001 22:47									#19
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If the AI really doesn't cheat then is there no longer an excuse to explain why you lost at emperor difficulty I love that

I think that historical importance will indeed only happen when no other means of winning is achieved(so if you turn all ways of wining of will a game always end like that) maybe it is the civ with the highest civ score that wins.

	06-09-2001 23:04									#20
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No cheating AI until Deity...
...handeling information...
...reading again...
...text has not changed...
...write reply..


They must have improved the AI very mush to do that, or they have lowered the hardness of the levels (I hope not).

	06-09-2001 23:37									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Patriqvium Also included in the preview was this shot of the game's European DVD case cover art: http://www.kolumbus.fi/patrik.laiho/civcover.jpg

DVD case? What about the big chunky manual I expected?

	06-09-2001 23:52									#22
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My question is why they're not putting all this info on the Civ 3 website - throw us a bone, Firaxis!

Great ideas about slavery, and seeing mountains from further in the distance. Great that there's a longer line of site when on top of a mountain. I wonder if we'll be able to build listening posts or watch towers on mountains to detect enemies from further off...

	06-09-2001 23:55									#23
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quote: Originally posted by lockstep DVD case? What about the big chunky manual I expected?

Well, at least it lives up in our dream. I'll have to mis-use my school's large capacity laser printers to chunk out those goddamned .pdf:s...

	06-09-2001 23:58									#24
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I'm a bit perplexed though, isn't this the first we have heard of an institution of slavery existing in the game? Do we know anything else about it, or how it will work?

	06-09-2001 23:59									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Patriqvium - There is a "histographic" way of victory - the civilization with most impact to world history wins in the endgame.

What happens if you "accidently" fulfils a victory-condition that you have choosen possible, but dont want? I hope one can choose: "No thanks, I know that I have choosen this one as an possible victory-condition, but now I rather take my chances with this yet unfilled victory-condition instead".

quote: Originally posted by Lockstep DVD case? What about the big chunky manual I expected?

Maybe above is twice as thick as standard-size? Probably not. Oh well - I guess we have to wait for that collectors edition. But will the same thin DVD-case game-manual be added?

	07-09-2001 00:03									#26
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider I'm a bit perplexed though, isn't this the first we have heard of an institution of slavery existing in the game? Do we know anything else about it, or how it will work?

This is exactly what I am wondering about too, monkspider.

	07-09-2001 00:05									#27
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider I'm a bit perplexed though, isn't this the first we have heard of an institution of slavery existing in the game? Do we know anything else about it, or how it will work?

I think that the idea of capturing settlers and workers and using them as "free" work force was mentioned earlier... but I don't have the slightest idea where that happened. (btw, Mad Viking, thanks for your hilarious explanation )

	07-09-2001 00:27									#28
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Maybe the difference is that now your CIV Score is not based mostly on the current conditions, but instead on some kind of average over time. In CIV II you could bump up your happiness for the last turns and improve your score.

	07-09-2001 00:29									#29
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Hmmm, if you assume that the AI is generally stupid, why would anyone not play at the deity level since it doesn't 'cheat' at the emperor level or lower. In Civ2, it has to 'cheat' on all levels in order to provide some sort of challenge. Without 'cheating', the AI cannot be that good, esp since they appeared to hire just as many artists as programmers.

	07-09-2001 01:07									#30
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Regarding the AI having no cheats except on Diety. I remember when I first got Civ2, I saw an interview with Sid Meier where he proudly proclaimed that the AI didn't cheat at all, except when it came to Trireme movement. I remember it well, because of many times in later years I would curse their cheating ways and think about the sheer chutspah of making that statement. So beware of the hype on that point, the track record from the man himself isn't good.