10-09-2001 23:17									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Mergle Well, I never play multiplayer (I simply don't have the time), but this scenario has got me very worried. The point (as many are sa

Mergle, I think I miss your point

But I guess that you are worried about other features to be skipped.

	10-09-2001 23:50									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Leonidas The more I hear about this game, the more worried I become.

me too

	11-09-2001 01:45									#153
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quote: If it is more then just a rumour where is the Firaxis PR person to confirm it?

If you were a PR person what is more important to end a rumor that has the potential to cost your company thousands or dollars or confirm a rumor that has the potential to cost your company thousands of dollars?

I would say if this rumor was false we would have already heard something to that effect.

	11-09-2001 01:59									#154
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I do not use multiplayer for Civ. I have been waiting for Civ3 for years now. I want it October 16th. If they delay the release over this issue because everyone was yapping about it, I will be very very angry. I will get revenge most foul.

Do NOT screw this up for those of us who cannot wait any longer for Civ3. You WILL rue the day.

	11-09-2001 02:58									#155
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Unfornately we will have to wait to Oct 30 not Oct 16..

	11-09-2001 04:23									#156
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October 30? I just lost 2 weeks of my life!

	11-09-2001 05:06									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Hoot October 30? I just lost 2 weeks of my life!

From the shock, or just another 2 weeks wasted?

	11-09-2001 05:47									#158
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Good point, Osweld, probably a combination. Let's see, how much time have I wasted reading the redundancies and agreements of opinion? 2 weeks + an hour or so.....

My gut reaction upon hearing that there would be no mp upon release was a common one, and I admit to feeling let down by Firaxis/Infogrames, but the more I think about it, the less I care.

We have no PROOF that the rumor is true, nothing concrete saying anyone at Firaxis feels they are releasing it prematurely, and no way of knowing if we will have to pay twice for sp and mp. Its all speculation, and until we know more, why should we worry?

I probably only played about 5-10% of my Civ2 time MP (may explain my low level of play), so if Civ3 is only SP to start, fine. They're going to get my money, however they want to go about it. I've bought crappy expansions for games far less interesting and engaging than the civ series, so why get uptight when they ask for it? The system is in place, we collectively as consumers have allowed it. I don't feel I should hold Firaxis et al. to a higher standard just because I have been more eagerly awaiting their product than all those RTS games that siphon money from my account. Only my opinion, and the first I've shared here in a year or so. Let me know if I should make it another year...

	11-09-2001 05:55									#159
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A full working day has passed and not a single refutation of this rumour by Firaxis. You mean to say that not a single person from Firaxis has poked their nose in this forum for at least 5 minutes today and does not know about what is being discussed here?

That does not include emails that were probably sent to the company about this very issue. So Firaxis must be aware of it.

It was a sneaky thing to do though - to not tell the fans that MP would not be in the fall release of the game. Basically, none of us would have found out about it until AFTER we bought the game

I'll bet people would have been steamed about it at that point. At least now we have been forwarned, if only by accident by the PR person through an email. I sure hope she doesn't lose her job over this.

With that said, I will buy the game, but I think I'll wait until I find out what others have to say about it, and what the reviews say.

I thought this was going to be a special game; apparently everyone thinks so except the publisher. . . It looks like they want to cash in on Sid's name and make a bundle before Christmas before people wise up and realize there are problems with the game.

I hope I'm wrong - boy I hope I'm wrong. . .

	11-09-2001 06:59									#160
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If this is true then I have lost *all* respect for Firaxis as a game development company. This is a shameless abuse of loyal customers. Multiplayer has been an industry standard feature of strategy games since 1998. When I heard Firaxis was going to redefine the industry standard with civ 3 I had no idea that it meant shamelessly abusing customers. What is next? Does Firaxis intend to charge extra for sound?

I have already cancelled shipment on my pre-order and absolutely will *not* buy this game until multiplayer is included out of the box for no additional charge.

If hope this is not true and that firaxis is not attempting to abuse their loyal customer base.

The marketing department really blew this one.

Looks like it is time to start helping out the people working on FreeCiv.

	11-09-2001 07:24									#161
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Do not lose respect for firaxis! They have no responsibility. They are just lowly developers being pushed around by their big pimp, infogrames. you can **** infogrames right in the ass for all i care, but don't be pissed at firaxis. all they want is a game that they and the gaming community can enjoy. Oh yeah, I almost forgot: they also want money. But its not their fault.

	11-09-2001 07:37									#162
	I will NOT buy Civ 3 Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Surprise surprise..
The consumer gets jammed for their patience yet again.

I will not buy Civ 3 - it seems far to suspiciously like CTP all over again.

Yet another company who will never see another buck from my wallet.
Firaxis.. your poor business decisions will crush you.

	11-09-2001 09:07									#163
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quote: Originally posted by isaac brock Do not lose respect for firaxis! They have no responsibility. snip

I disagree. This had to be on the table before any deals were inked. Firaxis should have stood up for their fans and refused. Developers can only be as good as the features their marketing department will let them include.

No multiplayer in Civ III? Ridiculous. What year is it? 1996? Civnet was fine. Civ II Gold was weasely because networked games were common then. Civ III Gold Network Edition is totally absurd, shame on everyone involved. SMAC was good, but I probably would not have purchased it in the first place if it had not been developed by Firaxis.

Not including MP was a terrible, not to mention arrogant, marketing decision by the publisher, and it was stupid for Firaxis to go along with it. Infogames might benefit from this, but it will seriously damage the Firaxis brand.

I'm glad I got that email from Apolyton regarding this issue. I had no problem cancelling my order. I won't be buying Civ III, and will think twice before buying anything else developed by Sid and company. Besides, I've got Trade Wars now!

Ken

	11-09-2001 09:16									#164
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It sickens me to the point of explosive diarrhea to share a forum with a traitor like yourself.

	11-09-2001 09:26									#165
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Likewise, with blind Fanatics.

Look, they really dropped the ball here. Did they offer us something like Battle.net, or Ultima Online or Never Rest?. Did they create a huge, rich mutliplayer experience with rankings, ladder games, etc. ?

No.

They took us back to 1996.

	11-09-2001 09:32									#166
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Isaac: If I had already bought the game, I would wait for confirmation about MP. If it proves true (and if I had any interest in MP at all, which many do), I'd also cancel my pre-order.

However, knowing this industry the way I do (and knowing Firaxis the way I do), I haven't even ordered yet and WILL NOT order until and unless the game meets my apparently high expectations.

I don't think 'traitor' enters the discussion. Ideally the relationship between developer and fan is a symbiotic one...but Firaxis at least publically seems to say they can do this on their own. If the relationship is not a symbiotic one, it should at least be one of open communication and some kind of negotiation.

But when the relationship is being formed as top-down, take whatever we give you and like it kind of thing, the only recourse a fan has is to withold his money. This is not being a traitor. This is having some common sense.

	11-09-2001 09:34									#167
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After popping some immodiums, I understand your pain, brother. Unfortunately, I don't give two sh*ts about multiplayer, and it has been very difficult for me to have any compassion for MPers, but I've done my best. All I hope for is a sweetass single player experience. But I respect you and your multiplaying ways. I hope firaxis ends up working something out. Good luck with that.

	11-09-2001 09:37									#168
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Well I for one which I had the money to buy 10 copies. I commend Firaxis for having the courage to not waste time and resources on MP and instead try to make Civ3 the best SP game ever.

	11-09-2001 09:39									#169
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Thats my illegitimate love child, dennis. You tell those MPers whats what.

	11-09-2001 09:43									#170
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For people who don't play MP, I suppose it can be hard to understand, but MP is the future of gaming while SP, while an important part of TBS to be sure, is not the undisputed king it used to be. The Civ community has in large part stayed active through the MP community...for how many times can it be fun to beat the same silly AI?

The question here is not whether or not MP is an important sales point...clearly it is. The question is how will Firaxis handle this rumor, for surely the MP folks deserve at least to be told what's going on and why.

As I have said many, many times, most or all this chaos could be avoided through a straight-up explanation from Firaxis one way or the other. Another point that hasn't helped this is that Firaxis itself hyped up MP as new and exciting and never-before-seen, etc.

Now tell me: Why would any properly thinking group of individual hype something that they knew wouldn't make it into the box come release day? And if this is just an unfortuate change of plans for them, why not step up to the plate and do the civil thing, the good PR thing, and clear the air?

	11-09-2001 09:47									#171
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MP is not the future of gaming. I expect AI in games to grow by leaps and bounds over the next several years and hurt MP gaming.

	11-09-2001 09:49									#172
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I agree with Yin26 about the future of gaming being MP. Sp cannot compete once you start beating it on a regular basis.

I suspect the reason MP might not be available is the 'new' part of it which I think might include a website/server that simply won't be ready - which is outside the game and might not mean the game is being rushed out incomplete.

	11-09-2001 09:50									#173
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Also Firaxis never said MP would come out of the box. They only said they would give more details on it when Civ3 got closer to release.

	11-09-2001 09:50									#174
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quote: ...and hurt MP gaming.

Because we all know that good AI would be the death of MP gaming.

	11-09-2001 09:51									#175
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Thats the part that bugs me. either (and you may not want to read it because it is hugely optimistic) Firaxis is trying to blow us away by including a great MP after all OR they might be able to barely scrape up the multiplayer in time for release but they aren't sure, OR they are digging a deeper and deeper trench every day between them and MPers because they fear what may happen if they announce the truth. Of course, the last is very probable, but i believe the second one is at least possible too. No matter what though, firaxis should stop tippy-toeing past the issue and admit the truth.

	11-09-2001 09:53									#176
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quote: No matter what though, firaxis should stop tippy-toeing past the issue and admit the truth.

Precisely. I can also hope that the delay means they want something outstanding. I just hope they don't expect people to pay for MP.

	11-09-2001 10:00									#177
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or maybe everyone's complaining will incite them to make you pay for MP anyway, simply to piss yin off

	11-09-2001 10:01									#178
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LOL! Now THAT would truly be funny...

	11-09-2001 10:05									#179
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Well maybe Firaxis thought they wouldn't be able to delevier on thier promises of a innovative MP and decided to leak out an e-mail because they felt it might be the best way to weather the storm. That 's probaly what I would have done.

	11-09-2001 10:09									#180
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Actually, I think their "leaked e-mail" is just fueling the hatred. And I don't think they thought a professor would leak it to apolyton.