16-09-2001 04:03									#31
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

move them 2 spaces only.Hit "w" and then command+n when you are done with other units.

	16-09-2001 07:59									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

isnt that cheating, like leaving your planes hanging in mid air ...

do many players actually do this?? I hope not

	16-09-2001 08:43									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

..only the ones that know about it

Any serious,"fair" mp game will have fairly long list of pre-game conditions.

j/k about the poll

	16-09-2001 12:46									#34
	Increase Your PM Length

its sad that the game allows so many "loopholes" to ber exploited by those in the know !!! I gues in twelve months (maybe less) aCHEAT Thread wil lbe posted for Civ 3 , as people find all the hidden BUGS and exploit them,,,,,

	16-09-2001 14:43									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Thanks again SG... One request is can you also please log what your building in each city (and why) and when you rush buy!! I noticed you rush built the temple in Carthage in 3300BC but didnt mention it as such.... Didnt help tha ti too was inbibing in the red wine will trying to learn

	17-09-2001 01:43									#36
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Raz ... no city improvements except a Temple in Cartage. The other cities were building Settlers after a warrior for Martial Law ... as well as one Horseman for exploration and Barb protection. After Trade ... Caravans as well.

The early goals are expansion and food caravans to build wonders. In addition one settler was dedicated to road construction... helps move the caravans.

Rush buying was usually done on an incremental basis.

------------

SG(2)

	17-09-2001 12:11									#37
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just to clarify, Raz, to make our limited funds go as far as possible our normal caravan/settler rushing is as follows:

1. Select Caravan, hit end of turn
2. Switch to Warrior, buy, switch back to Caravan, hit end of turn
3. Switch to Phalanx, buy, switch back to Caravan, hit end of turn
4. Curse not yet having writing, wait until row 4 is started
5. Switch to Settler, buy, (if needed switch to Caravan), hit end of turn
6. Finally, buy the last row for the Caravan (unless production is >=5)

	17-09-2001 14:38									#38
	Suffering from ads?

2950 Malaca established. 8 turns/tech.
2800 Currency discovered, Monarchy next. Caralis established. 10 turns/tech. Hut contains a chariot (supported by Malaca). This is my lucky day ! Malaca's production changed to settlers.
2650 Map Making from hut. 13 turns/tech.
2600 Oops! Not paying attention. Carthage's 2nd worker moved from grass to forest. Utica's worker moved to silk.
2550 Carthage's 2nd worker moved back to grass.
2500 Carthage builds settlers. Production changed to warriors.
2450 Utica builds horsemen. Production switched to settlers.
2350 Malaca's 2nd worker moved to forest, settler next turn.
2300 Malaca builds settler.
2250 Carthage builds warriors.
2200 Monarchy discovered (one turn late ), Pottery next. 12 turns/tech.
2150 Hut contains 25 gold.
2100 Panormus established. No extra unhappies yet. 10 turns/tech. Carthage's production changed to trireme. Revolution!
2050 Monarchy . Caralis's workers moved to forest. Caralis builds horsemen, production changed to settlers. Warrior moved from Carthage to Panormus to guard against pirates.
2000 Utica: 2nd worker moved to ocean, since we have surplus shield production. Caralis: rushbuy 15 shields toward settler production.

Attachment: dv_b2000.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	17-09-2001 14:50									#39
	Remove this text

1950 Carthage: worker moved to forest.
1900 Malaca: rushbuy one shield so we can build a settler in 4 more turns. Panormus: rushbuy 2 shields so we can build a horsemen in 4 turns. Carthage: rushbuy 5 shields so we can build a trireme in 4 more turns.
1850 Barb uprising: two horses and a leader.
1800 Barb horse dies attacking my valiant warrior in Caralis . Rushbuild a phalanx in Utica in an attempt to capture the barb leader.
1750 Barb horse kills my warrior, weakens to yellow. Panormus: move worker to forest. Utica: move worker to silk. Utica builds phalanx.
1700 Barb horse and leader move away. Grrr. Pottery discovered, trade next. Malaca builds settlers, Carthage builds trireme (change production to temple), Panormus builds horsemen. Caralis: move worker to forest.
1650 Leptis Parva established. Carthage: switch production to warriors, we don't need a temple yet.
1600 Barb horse dies attacking my phalanx. Caralis goes into disorder . Barb leader captured .
1550 Carthage builds warrior, change production to settlers.
1500 Rushbuy some shields toward future caravans.
1400 Cartenna established. Malaca: move worker to forest. Join settlers to Carthage: size 3.
1350 Trade discovered, Masonry next. Malaca: move 2nd worker to ocean, rushbuild caravan. Rushbuild settlers, change production to caravans in Carthage, Utica, Panormus.
1300 Caralis builds settlers, Malaca builds dye caravan. Rushbuild caravans in Utica, Panormus; move workers to ocean in Carthage, Utica, Panormus.
1250 Carthage, Utica, Panormus build dye caravans. Change production in Carthage to Hanging Gardens, use caravans to rush it; move workers (except in Carthage) to maximize shields. Rusicade established. Leptis Parva: rushbuy one shield.
1200 Carthage completes Hanging Gardens.
1050 Masonry discovered, Construction next. Aztecs start Colossus.

Edited for minor grammar & line break problems.

Attachment: dv_b1500.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

Last edited by DaveV on 17-09-2001 at 20:45

	17-09-2001 14:51									#40
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Now I know why the Gits split their 2000-1000 BC files: "file too big to attach."

Attachment: dv_b1000.zip
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	17-09-2001 23:03									#41
	one more willing to compare Increase the size of your Attachments

If the SGs and Dave compare their games, why shouldn't I have a try?
Short log:
3950: hut gives horsey + Carthage close to whale
3700: Alphabet (Utica meanwhile)
2450: Malaca (+ hut = 50g)
2200: Monarchy discovered
2150: Hut = MapMaking
2100: telephone rings and La Fayette forgets to switch to Revolution
1900: Caralis (+ don't forget to switch this time)
1850: Monarchy chosen
1600: Panormus
1550: Leptis
1500: Trade
1000: HG to be completed next turn

	18-09-2001 10:56									#42
	1 AD Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Shorter log (1000 BC- 1 AD)
950BC: HG
725: Marco
425: Switch to Republic

Demographics at 1 AD:
Pop.: 1,240,000 (6 cities)
PNB: 142 M$
Prod.: 44Mt

	18-09-2001 11:53									#43
	Why I did it Remove this text

I suppose that the SGs' idea is to compare 'playing styles'.
Therefore I had better explain why I did what I did:

1) Having SG in 950BC and living on a rather tiny island, I decided to build Marco instead of sending fragile triremes over the ocean.
2) Having Marco in 700BC, I traded a few useful techs and many maps. Those maps showed that the other civs also were 'island civs' quite far away. I decided to choose the 'isolated Republican way' (hello Mr Bush!), which means to grow swiftly and peacefully
with internal trade and WLTPD.
3) I switched to Republic in 425BC.
IMHO this is a difficult point that I don't master yet: if you switch too soon, you lose those 'support shields' and need a high luxury rate; if you switch too late, well, it's just too late (and Dave has already finished his game meanwhile ).
4) Growing in Republic is like climbing a staircase, step by step: prepare, then grow with WLTPD, then prepare next step,...
5) Step #1 was growing my fat city to size 8 and the other 5 cities to size 5-6-7. I am almost ready for step #2 in 1AD. Step #2 should be growing my fat city to size 12, the other 5 to size 8, and creating 2 baby-cities in the southwestern part of the island (since 8 cities is OK without 'red faces' under Republic).

	18-09-2001 19:19									#44
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hi La Fayette,

Your game looks good - I think that you will be able to go as far as 10 cities on a large map (this is a large map) without hitting the red faces, but it does depend upon how large your other cities have grown ...

We are more or less determined to continue in a hybrid fashion with a sleaze along the river system and two protected 3/4 special cities .. we shall see.

	19-09-2001 00:06									#45
	Hi La Fayette & SG[1]! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Colossus/Marco ... obtain some maps...then we know where to trade or where to send the Ironclads ... probably both

SG(2)

	19-09-2001 01:07									#46
	Support Apolyton

I decided to try a similar strat as LaFayette. Just build five cities. I decided not to build any wonders either.
I'm just messing about with this game but it might be an interesting comparison.


3950 - archers from hut
3850 - Carthage
3800 - researching alpha, 6 turns
3650 - alpa from hut
3500 - Utica founded, lost archer to hut barbs
2950 - carthage builds settlers
2700 archers from hut, malaca founded
2300 - Utica settlers
2250 - Carthage settlers
2150 - Caralis founded
2100 - Monarchy
2050 - change to monarchy
1800 - Panormus
1600 - Currency
1600 - Malaca settlers
1550 - Utica settlers
1450 - Carthage settlers
1150 - Masonry
1100 - CAralis settlers
900 - panormus settlers
850 - trade
450 - all cities have temples, carthage and utica have marketplaces
375 - got republic
325 - republic, panormus/carthage trade route. luxuries at 20%. pop is 600,000
50 bc - all cities have three trade routes, marketplaces, temples and connected by roads.
20 ad - all five cities wltked to size seven
60 - construction
360 - aqueduct and colleseum bought in all cities
500 - all cities size 12
600 - wheel, most cities build libraries
680 - invention
700 - romans attack killing two settlers
740 - democracy
780 -democracy
880 - roman city bribed, take mathmatics
900 - medicine
1000 - peace with romans, university
1060 - sanitation
1200 - all cities bought sewers and courts
1380 - five cities, pop = 10 million
1440 - astronomy
1520 - chemisty
1540 - gunpowder
1570 - pottery
1580 - traded with souix. got bridge, nav and poly
1600 - seafaring
1620 - phyzics
1650 - steam engine
1680 - railroad
1710 - industrialization
640 - engineering
1720 - romans take a city
1740 - magnetism
1740 - bribe it back
1750 - romans take it back
1756 - explozives and get city back
1764 - destroy dead buffolo
1768 - metallurgy
1770 - romans attack utica reduce size by two
1772 - two caravans to tenochtitlan
1774 - russians take yutica and indus, i bribe it back and take chivilry
1778 - refining
1784 - electricity
1790 - refrigeration
1794 - romans take yutica, i destroy it
1798 - get conscription and feudalism from siouz, research combustion
1806 - steel
1814 - electronics

	19-09-2001 01:10									#47
	Increase the size of your Attachments

i forgot to take regular saves. heres my latest.

Attachment: comparison.sav
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	19-09-2001 22:45									#48
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Makeo I decided to try a similar strat as LaFayette. Just build five cities. I decided not to build any wonders either. I'm just messing about with this game but it might be an interesting comparison.

IMHO you are not messing about that much.
All of us know that it is not really easy to play at deity level without happiness wonders (although we, scenario players, get accustomed to it ).

I notice that you have played until electronics, which leads to a question to the 'thread starters':

Gits, my friends, are we supposed to land on AC?


(La Fayette not at all willing to laugh at the SGs, but willing to play nicely along with their guidelines)

	20-09-2001 00:37									#49
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette Gits, my friends, are we supposed to land on AC?

I don't think we know the answer to that question. We are waiting for the game's events to point us in the right direction

-----------------

SG(2)

	20-09-2001 01:29									#50
	Got spare money?

This game shows us why Civ is indeed great.We can watch different paths to glory unfold with the different players.There is no one way to win and I'm seeing that allready.

	20-09-2001 03:10									#51
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I have played this game to the end, winning both by AC with a max spaceship and by conquest. I have attached saves for b150 and a640. At a640, I decided that conquest was the best challenge, and will post some saves as the SG game progresses. After conquest, I restored the a640 save and finished the game by spaceship. An island is easily defended, and there is enough production capacity to win by SS.
It is interesting to see that significant mileposts have occurred at about the same time in everyone's game. One difference is in how many cities are started, and when. I like to fill my territory with cities that have the potential to grow, but I keep them small initially to keep unrest under control.
Another difference is that I like to build as many wonders as I can. Because a large island has good defense, I did not build great-wall which I normally get. To grow, you can't get too involved with wars.

	20-09-2001 03:12									#52
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

lets see if I can attach the zip file of saves

Attachment: ge-a640.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	20-09-2001 04:45									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

...and here is my effort to 1AD.A completely different approach.I got 1 advanced tribe with a pheasant and whale.That city made a big difference as it was able to build numerous settlers.4 or 5 cities were born of that one.I also went went after Map Making as my non Monarchy pre-req.An early trireme revealed some whales and other lands.I "missed" Marco's and am kinda regretting it now.
Barbs were a major pain early.Horses were busy and gold was drained several times but I held fledgling settlements.I narrowly won a trireme battle vs a barb trireme and became a vet.That almost never happens for me.

The next millinium will be spent trying to get out and about.I want to make contact and find some huts.I have contact with 2,but they have nothing to offer.The Sioux will most likely be receiving caravans in the next 1000 years but they are kinda close.I need some better boats.

lo-lights
Monarchy-2250bc
Collosus-1350bc
Republic-525bc
Mich's-525bc
Cope's-200bc

Attachment: consul rabid rodent.sav.zip
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

Last edited by Smash on 20-09-2001 at 06:51

	20-09-2001 17:07									#54
	good game Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Smash .I need some better boats. lo-lights Monarchy-2250bc Collosus-1350bc Republic-525bc Mich's-525bc Cope's-200bc

your game demonstrates very clearly the power of Colossus:
IIRC you have 8 trade routes established BC, and the value of each trade route is 3, which means 3*8 = 24.
I have 15 trade routes, and the value of each is 1, which means 1*15 = 15.
When I think of the one time bonuses that surely went with establishing those trade routes, I feel like whining.

(La Fayette, banned from first class trading ...and also in need of better boats)

	20-09-2001 19:12									#55
	Inflate your Upload Space

975 Leptis Parva builds settlers.
925 Cartenna builds settlers, change production to horsemen. Carthage: buy 5 shields toward caravan.
900 Malaca builds dye caravan. Rushbuild caravans in Utica, Panormus.
875 Caralis builds settlers. Panormus, Utica, Carthage build dye caravans; Carthage changes production to Colossus. Caravans added to wonder production. Americans start Pyramids.
850 Rusicade builds settlers. Construction discovered, Seafaring next. Carthage builds Colossus (Aztecs change to Lighthouse); production changed to temple. Gades established.
825 Carthage: rushbuild temple, add settlers (size 5). Aztecs change to Great Libarary.
800 Carthage completes temple, switch to colosseum.
775 Rushbuy two shields toward caravan in Utica. Vikings start Lighthouse.

Attachment: dv_b750.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

Last edited by DaveV on 20-09-2001 at 19:20

	20-09-2001 19:13									#56
	Tired of ads?

725 Cartenna builds settlers. Seafaring discovered, Writing next. Gades builds warriors, horsemen next. Babylonians start Pyramids.
700 Rusicade: rushbuild two shields, change worker to forest.
675 Leptis Parva builds settlers. Malaca builds wine caravan. Rusucurru, Girba established. Need Elvis in Panormus, Malaca, Utica. Change production in Malaca to warriors.
650 Wine Malaca->Carthage, 16. Gades: buy two shields toward horsemen.
625 Sioux demand Map Making. Consequences, schmonsequences. Sioux declare war. Carthage: Add two settlers (size 7), rushbuild marketplace. Malaca builds warriors, change production to caravan. Luxuries to 20% to keep Carthage celebrating. Sioux start Lighthouse; Vikings have nearly completed Lighthouse.
600 Rusicade builds settlers; Panormus, Utica build caravans, Carthage builds marketplace, Gades builds horsemen. Writing discovered, Literacy next. Carthage: add settler (size 8), change production to Library. Salt (D) Panormus->Carthage, 44. Wool Utica->Carthage, 32. Caralis: buy 4 shields toward settlers. Sioux will make peace for 50 gold. I laugh, they declare war.
575 Vikings build Lighthouse in Trondheim. Sioux abandon Lighthouse. Carthage: rushbuild library. Girba builds warriors, switch to horsemen. Sioux demand Constructuion, declare war. Rushbuild warriors in Panormus. Babylonians have nearly completed Pyramids.
550 Caralis builds settlers; Utica, Panormus build warriors, switch to caravans; Carthage builds library, change production to colosseum.
525 Babylonians build Pyramids in Ur; Babylonians, Americans change projects to Great Wall. Literacy discovered, Philosophy next. Girba: rushbuy two shields toward horsemen.
500 Rusicade builds warriors, switch to settlers. Rusucurru builds horsemen, switches to warriors. Rushbuy one shield toward settlers in Leptis Parva.

Attachment: dv_b500.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

Last edited by DaveV on 20-09-2001 at 19:19

	20-09-2001 19:16									#57
	Inflate your Upload Space

475 Cartenna builds settlers. Girba builds horsemen, switch to settlers.
450 Gades builds explorers, switch to settlers. Ruscurru builds warriors, switch to settlers.
425 Malaca builds dye caravan. Philosophy, The Wheel discovered; Engineering next. Rusucurru: change production to warriors to garrison future city. Change taxes to 10/70/20 - science is outpacing infrastructure.
400 Babylonians change project to Great Library. Leptis Parva builds settlers, change to horsemen. Rushbuild aqueduct in Carthage, switch back to colosseum (complete in 3 turns). Dye Malaca->Carthage, 22. Rusucurru builds warriors, switch to settlers. Change taxes to 40/40/20. Rushbuy 10 shields in Utica and Panormus. Cartenna: move 2nd worker to bison, rushbuild one shield toward settlers.
375 Rushbuy 4 shields toward settlers in Rusicade.
350 Panormus builds dye caravan, Utica builds silk caravan. Silk (D) Utica->Carthage, 96; Dye Panormus->Carthage, 32. Caralis: rushbuy 3 shields toward settlers.
325 Carthage builds colosseum, switch to granary. Change taxes to 40/50/10. Rushbuy 5 shields toward caravan in Utica, Panormus. Vikings start Oracle.
300 Engineering discovered, Medicine next. Leptis Magna established. Carthage: rushbuy 33 shields toward granary. Rushbuy 5 shields toward caravan in Utica, Panormus, Malaca.
275 Pliny reports: Carthage first in happiness, Sioux 3rd. Girba, Rusicade build settlers. Aztecs demand trade, I am not intimidated. Peace with Aztecs. Give Aztecs trade for Republic. No map exchange. Rushbuy 5 shields in Utica, Panormus. Rushbuild granary in Carthage.
250 Gades, Cartenna, Caralis build settlers. Malaca builds food caravan. Carthage builds granary, switch to aqueduct. Rushbuild 5 shields toward caravan in Panormus. Change taxes to 70/20/10. Hire Elvis in Utica.

Attachment: dv_b250.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	20-09-2001 19:17									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

225 Carthage: rushbuild aqueduct. Carthago Nova, Oea established.
200 Rusucurru builds settlers. Panormus builds food caravan. Carthage builds aqueduct, switch to harbor. Food Malaca->Carthage, Panormus->Carthage. Cartenna builds warriors, assigned to Oea. Change taxes to 60/20/20.
175 Malaca, Utica build food caravans. Tingis, Rusaddit established. Food Utica->Carthage. Rushbuy 35 shields toward caravan in Panormus. Leptis Parva builds horsemen, switch to settlers. Carthage size 9.
150 Food Malaca->Carthage. Carthage size 10. Change taxes to 10/70/20. Alalia established.
125 Panormus builds food caravan. Carthage size 11. Leptis Magna builds horsemen; switch to settlers. Selinus established. Rushbuy 19 shields toward harbor in Carthage. Rushbuy 3 shields toward settlers in Girba. Sioux destroy Selinus .
100 Aztecs ask us to withdraw our horsemen; we comply. Medicine discovered, Sanitation next. Hut: advanced tribe (Himera). Carthage size 12. We slay the invading Sioux.
75 Aztecs refuse to share maps.
50 Babylon builds Great Library. Boston builds Great Wall. Carthage builds harbor, switch to city walls. Akragas established. Rushbuy 15 shields toward caravan in Utica.
25 Aztecs demonstrate the wonders of Banking. Tenochtitlan builds Marco Polo's Embassy. Gades builds settlers, switch to caravan. Theveste established. Change taxes to 70/10/20. Rushbuild horsemen in Cartenna.
1 Utica builds food caravan. Sanitation discovered, Banking next. Give Aztecs Sanitation for Banking, share maps. Carthago Nova, Oea, Cartenna build horsemen.

Attachment: dv_a1.zip
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

	21-09-2001 11:51									#59
	Remove this text

Hm, where have I seen this before?

Great thread!


Carolus

	21-09-2001 11:54									#60
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Except that I never destroyed a city...

Carolus