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Melios
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I've been wondering this since the original Civ: Why Abraham Lincoln as the default leader? Why not Thomas Jefferson, who wrote most of the Declaration of Independence?
I also am a bit confused on why Civ2's default American female leader was Eleanor Roosevelt.
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jsw363
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quote:
Originally posted by saracen31
Ummm...Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd president of the US. |
Umm.... I hope that this is a joke.
About the Lincoln debate, well I would prefer Washington, but Lincoln's a close second. Yep, there hasn't ever been a female president and no woman has had a significant impact on US history, so they had to choose someone... (And just so I dont get a bunch of angry feminist e-mails, there have been some female leaders, but no female has ever really commanded the nation)Guess Eleanor was the best they could do.
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quote:
Originally posted by static
Abe Lincoln, George Washington, or F.D.R., all would make great choices, but Washington probably will be a great leader.
Eleanor Roosevelt was the female leader because during the late years of WW2 she played a major in running America as F.D.R.'s health was failing. For a while 'in a way' she was the president. |
Maybe a lot of you don't know that Mrs. Roosevelt was one of the reason that the Black flyer had a change to fight during WW II to show how good they could be.
It is now a matter of records that they while flying cover for our Bomber, they never aloud one Bomber to be shot down by the German Air Force. No other Fighter Command can claim that.
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jsw363
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Locutus-
You're right. So sorry. Guess my US history isn't as good as I thought it was. I think I was thinking of Franklin, who everyone thinks was preseident, but never was. Anyways, mea culpa.
As for:
- Hillary Clinton
- Madelaine Albright
- Janet Reno
- Susan B Anthony
- Rosa Parks
- Elizabeth Cady Stanton
- Amelia Earhart
- Mary Stone
All of them were brilliant women, but I just don't think that there's a convincing argument to be made that any of them had a significant impact on the history of the United States.
Clinton was only elected to public office after she achieved fame (or infamy) because of her husband's presidency. Her futile attempt at health care reform might have been significant had it not failed.
Albright was Secretary of State for four years and really didn't make any important policy decisions. She hasn't held elected office and didn't formulate a clear foreign policy for the US in the Post Cold War.
Reno's highest elected office was State Attorney of Florida (not super impressive) and has yet to really have a significant impact on much of the American legal system besides her dealings with a certain Cuban boy and a failed impeachment attempt, certainly NOT defining moments in US history.
Anthony and Cady Stanton are at least reasonable possibilities, but they really only were concerned with one issue, women's sufferage. Yes, this was important in the history of teh US, but I think that there have been MANY other leaders with a much more significant impact than these two.
Parks did help to spawn the civil rights movement, but was more of an icon than a leader. I think that Dr. King is a much better example of a civil rights leader.
Earheart was little more than a pilot (Correct me if I'm wrong) Certainly a brave and intriguing woman, but hardly a leader.
Haven't even heard of Stone, so can't refute that one... 
I don't mean to diminish any of these women's accomplishments; all are incredible people. I just don't think that any of them are really American leaders. Parks and Anthony perhaps, but they still don't convince me.
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quote:
Originally posted by UberKruX
Reagan  |
Reagan did some good and some bad in my view.
Stoping the spread of Communism in Central America, our Congress did not want to stop it. Cutting Taxes.
Bad; Removing the retirement age on Federal working from 70 to whatever, Firing the Aircraft Controller, making Federal Employee paid for Medicare without allowing it to be a tax deduction. Cap our paid for 2 year w/o a raise.
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d_dudy
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i've seen poles taken that said historians believe lincoln to be the greatest president ever. because he kept the country together in such bad times and did some really gutsy leadership things by stretching the constitution when he arrested maruland democrats.
washington should be a great military leader.
reagen would be great for a ww3 scenario. us vs ussr
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jsw363
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Reagan was a GREAT president. I think that his decision to fire the air traffic controllers was a GOOD one. That single decision shifted the balance of power between labor and management forever. It allowed companies to fire workers, adapt to the information revolution and then hire more workers. As a result millions of jobs were eliminated, BUT also millions of jobs were created, helping thrust America into the economic expansion of the 90's.
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static
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Los Angeles, CA
Aug 2001
time: 05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by jsw363
Reagan was a GREAT president. I think that his decision to fire the air traffic controllers was a GOOD one. That single decision shifted the balance of power between labor and management forever. It allowed companies to fire workers, adapt to the information revolution and then hire more workers. As a result millions of jobs were eliminated, BUT also millions of jobs were created, helping thrust America into the economic expansion of the 90's. |
Reagan was a great man, but a so-so president. The nation's deficit skyrocketed under him, and his tax cut was all smoke and mirrors. However, he was good with foriegn affairs and helped bring about the end of the cold war.
Here's my top five presidents:
1. F.D.R. - Led the country out the economic ruin and of course his leadership during WW2.
2. Lincoln - Kept the country together during the civil war (much harder than it sounds).
3. Washington - His diplomacy and honesty was necessary for the U.S. when it started, especially with all politcal battles over state rights.
4. Cinton  - Yeah, I know what your thinking, but when he took office our nation was in a reccession, headed for a depression. His handling of the price of oil was amazing, really. With cheaper oil our industries surged back on their feet, and his administration was key for the expansion of the internet(No, Al Gore didn't invent it.  ). America had it greatest economic boom, by far, under his presidency. And you can't forget about him getting 'favors' from an intern while on the phone with senators.
5. Jefferson - Perhaps had the biggest impact on America than any other president, but most of it actually came before and during the formation of the U.S., and not while he was office.
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Christantine The Great
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Massachusetts
Jun 2000
time: 00:15
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Doubling the size of the US by buying land at rock bottom prices from a country that didn't want it anyway isn't that impressive...
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static
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Los Angeles, CA
Aug 2001
time: 05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Ugh! What a horrible President!
Clinton in the Top 5  . Funny, since the historians, who rank the Presidents (Republicans & Democrats) put him mid-pack. Yes, Reagan would be better, but still not that good. F.D.R might be the best. He was there when the US was at the beginning of its strongest era. Maybe Eisenhower would be good as well. |
Eisenhower  , He was perhaps our dumbest president ever, he makes G.W. Bush look like Einstein.
JFK was a good president, Apollo Program was his idea and many thought he was crazy at the time. Leadership during the Cuban missile crisis, and of course, banging Marilyn Monroe (I guess I have a one track mind).
Clinton was ranked mid-pack because is was still in office, 50 years from now I think they will rank him in the top five.
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Felch
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Germantown, Maryland
Sep 2001
time: 00:15
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It's funny how times change.
I'm an ancient studies major now, and one of the biggest bothers in terms of ancient historical documents is that all they do is praise the local ruler. So the first hand accounts are often things like, "The Great King Zybilogylisowagglethorp led an army of 100,000 mighty soldiers against his enemy, and, after a great slaughter, invented the Internet."
Point is, in modern times we've gone to the opposite extreme, at least according to static. Our leaders nowadays are just humdrum, run of the mill, nobodys. Although I don't consider Clinton that great it is interesting that he was considered so average.
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Kc7mxo
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Kansas City, Kansas
Jan 1970
time: 21:15
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***********
4. Cinton - Yeah, I know what your thinking, but when he took office our nation was in a reccession, headed for a depression. His handling of the price of oil was amazing, really. With cheaper oil our industries surged back on their feet, and his administration was key for the expansion of the internet(No, Al Gore didn't invent it. ). America had it greatest economic boom, by far, under his presidency. And you can't forget about him getting 'favors' from an intern while on the phone with senators.
************
Clinton as top 5 president? Thats rather a stretch don't you think.
Any economist can tell you that the president has very little effect on the economy. His handling of the oil crisis? Please.
Greatest economic boom. The economic boom was alrady gaining strength s he went in to office. He merely didn't do anything to hinder it. And the current reccession started before he left office. But it wasn't his fault either.
JFk would certainly belong higher up on the list if only for his more unifyiny abilities (thoguh he wasn't universally liked, not by a long shot). I think that in the great book of history clinton will go down next to taft, nothing special.
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08-09-2001 14:07
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