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I've seen many people complain that Marines are useless. One thing, they are not useless. Even though Howitzers do make amphiboius assaults seems pointless marines have a good defensive factor and pretty cheap to build. And consider this, Amphibious warfare comes alot earlier in the tech tree than Robotics so I use marines quite often for amphibious assaulting.
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Xin Yu
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Emeryville, CA, USA
Jan 1970
time: 21:12
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This is an interesting topic. Some aspects should be tested.
a)When marines attack from the ocean, will city walls be effective?
b)When marines attack from the ocean, will coastal fortress be effective?
c)When marines attack from the ocean and win, will the city population decrease?
Suppose the answers are all 'NO', then sometimes marines are better than other land units in attacking (because of no population decreasing); however, if you really can attack from the ocean, why not choose bomber, heli, or battleship?
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I don't think marines are effected by walls.
And besides fighter have a 4/2 attack/defense so they suck, bomber cost too much to build. And also carriers costs less than transports.
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johnmcd
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Edinburgh
Oct 1999
time: 05:12
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I once attacked Washington with 3 (three, count 'em) transports full of marines. I lost the lot on about three vet alpine troops. I was beginging to wonder if they were affected by both coastal fortress AND city walls. Nowadays I'll just pound a city to death with a battleship or whatever and send in a couple of marines to claim. You can't fight with them though IMHO.
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Bird
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South Orange, New Jersey
Jan 1970
time: 00:12
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I'm not so sure that city walls affect amphibious assaults by marines. Against the ai, I frequently use marines to take one or two cities on an island. This is particularly effective if you pick your target carefully and hit where defenses are weaker. But even with city walls, vet marines usually get the job done with a higher rate of success than I would expect if city walls worked, although you might want to have two transports rather than one, depending on the situation. Those are just my observations, not the results of any kind of study, though. The window of opportunity for marines might be small, but it's there.
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jpk
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Minneapolis
Feb 1999
time: 05:12
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About the only time I build a marine is if I have a city that really needs a unit becaue the AI is headed that way and I'm not sure whether an offensive or a defensive unit would be better for the situation. Marines are good at both.
Other than that, the only time I select a marine is when I am in the process of rush building howitzers or stealth fighters.
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johnmcd
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Edinburgh
Oct 1999
time: 05:12
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I must say it sounds like you play a very different game of civ to me smash. Probably a more interesting one. My idea of tactics in civ warfare is to build forty odd howies and drive through twenty enemy cities a turn.
Does anyone else give the AI railroad early to make sure you can conquer at the speed of light?
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diety level affects the random number which you and your opponent get in order to decide who gets the hit. to really find out if they are useful or not, you've got to try at MP
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Alien Infiltrate
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Jefferson Davis
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Huntsville,AL USA
Nov 1999
time: 05:12
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I think the smartest use of Marines is to build port facilities instead.
Alpine troops are better and you can make better amphibious assaults with veteran ships. If you haven't gotten to alpine troops yet THEN I could see building marines.
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MartinS
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Uppsala, Sweden
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Coastal fortresses DO affect marines attacking from the ocean. I have experienced it myself. I´m not sure about city walls though.
The best way to use marines, in my opinion, is to use them to defend cities near the enemy, because marines have got both high defense- and attack factors. If the enemy puts his units near your city, you can attack him before he attacks you.
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MartinS
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Uppsala, Sweden
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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But cavalry has only 3 in defence. Marines have 5. What if the enemy attacks you first?
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Jeff B
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Seattle, WA USA
Dec 1999
time: 05:12
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a)When marines attack from the ocean, will city walls be effective?
ANSWER: YES. Always. And at exactly the 3X factor they should, even at diety levels, though the "trend" of "luck" (eg, the computer resoulution of battle) may be against you in the short term at times.
b)When marines attack from the ocean, will coastal fortress be effective?
ANSWER: NO. Coastal Fortress has NO EFFECT during ANY land unit attack, including Marines attacking from a transport.
c)When marines attack from the ocean and win, will the city population decrease?
ANSWER: NO. Never, if atttacking a unit defending the city. But when no defenders are left, and a marine finally moves into and captures the city, that city's population will be reduced by one.
FURTHER NOTE: By the way, the computer can (and does) attack from the ocean with any of it's land combat units (not just marines). It can TAKE an unoccupied coastal city with any land unit but diplomat, spy, caravan, or freight (Dips and spies will bribe, though). For example, a computer civ's horseman will take an unoccupied one land unit ocean human city directly from a caravel, trireme, galleon, frigate, or transport. The human player is never allowed to do that! The human is forced to use a marine, paratrooper, or helicopter when the circumstances are reversed (or just incite a revolt).
GENERAL COMMENTS ABOUT MARINES:
1. Useful for attacking from transports... do not bother to build non-vet marines unless opponents are way behind in technology. if you build them, make them vets. At least, n don't attack cities with walls unless they are vets. A healthy vet marine has a 50-50 chance of winning agains a non-vet, non-fortified defending rifleman behind city walls.
2. Marines are severely hampered by movement. You need RRs to move and attack on land.
3. Marines generally do not merit production in great numbers... their usefulness is limited to a very limited number of circumstances, assuming you are aggressive and looking for bang for your buck.
4. If you do build marines, build them only with veteran status! That is critical for successful attacking (though usually not for defending... it is less cost-effective to build a bunch of "defensive" marines).
5. A semi-useful strategy is to put marines in a transport and use them to destroy enemy units along a coastline. The marine will recover from damage on subsequent turns (of course), and can attack again later. But this is not cost-effective if the enemy has a strong naval or air element nearby.
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Grishnakh
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Umea, Sweden
May 1999
time: 05:12
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A settler is a "non-offensive" unit, it has an attack value of zero, maybe that explains the difference?
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20-11-1999 10:11
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