01-07-2002 01:13									#61
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Whoa. Get a life, dude.

	01-07-2002 01:18									#62
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GP, will you test these unexplored squares or not?
Don't come back without results. Bye

quote: Originally posted by GP I don't have civ anymore. I just post in the on topic to get post counts.

Why do you post so evident things?

	01-07-2002 12:57									#63
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Oh some good news.
The new formula looks better than the old one.

At my testing last year I saw also the thing now named as csc modificator but I tought it was also a rounding thing, but the tests were something boring and I was alone so I terminate the test. Brute force was the right phrase.

I will verify the new formula, but this will last some time. I use FW.

From experience I think partisans also pop up at unexplored tiles.

quote: In general attacker's Gue lowers the number of partisans. But in reverse it allows partisans to appear from cities of level 1 when defender has Gue only!

Maybe also a rounding thing.

	03-07-2002 02:34									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Thoddy but the tests were something boring and I was alone

I know that...

quote: Originally posted by Thoddy quote: In general attacker's Gue lowers the number of partisans. But in reverse it allows partisans to appear from cities of level 1 when defender has Gue only! Maybe also a rounding thing.

No, this flows directly from the formula:
(CityLevel-1)*2 > CityLevel*1 for CityLevel>3
but
(CityLevel-1)*2 < CityLevel*1 for CityLevel=1

I hope the formula is precise, no "rounding" errors.

	03-07-2002 21:38									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Thoddy From experience I think partisans also pop up at unexplored tiles.

I've never seen partisans pop out of a city for which the entire 21 tile area is not revealed. Has anybody else seen this? I presume they march into view or you find them right afterwards...

	08-07-2002 10:43									#66
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see included files.
test some hundreds times to get spreadsheets.

New: gouvernmentdistance (between defender and attacker)
(A Mon/Mon combination has the same gouvernmentdistance as a Dem/Dem combination.)

Looking at these spredsheets you can see a full linararity at citylevel 2 and also a full linearity at
Gouvernment distance 1.
All other rows and columns are affected by rounding??

If you compare the spreadsheets you can see they are almost the same.
Spreadsheet 2 is affected by a multiplication(*2) and spreadsheet 3 by an addition(+1)

Last edited by Thoddy on 08-07-2002 at 10:50

	08-07-2002 10:56									#67
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forgot the files

i got bad results trying to post the spreadsheets directly at the forum.

Attachment: partisan.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	09-07-2002 03:50									#68
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I wil take a look later.

quote: Originally posted by Thoddy New: gouvernmentdistance (between defender and attacker) (A Mon/Mon combination has the same gouvernmentdistance as a Dem/Dem combination.)

I thought this is not new: the result of your tests in 2001 says
abs(govindexD-govindexA)

	16-07-2002 03:34									#69
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I compared my and Thoddy's test results with my formula (see the attached file).
(I hope I understood well that Thoddy's original sheets were with no Conscription.)

I see that my test results correspond to the formula, but
Thoddy's Def. Gue/Att. no Gue sheet is completely different from the formula
and Thoddy's Def. Cmn+Gun sheet and Def. Gue/Att. Gue sheet are shifted by one column in comparison with the formula.

Attachment: partisan thoddy+slowthinker.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	16-07-2002 03:45									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Thoddy If you compare the spreadsheets you can see they are almost the same. Spreadsheet 2 is affected by a multiplication(*2) and spreadsheet 3 by an addition(+1)

Yes, this corresponds to the formula:
a multiplication corresponds to the TypeMultiplier (1 or 2)
an addition(+1) corresponds to BNP=CityLevel (-1 is ommited)

	16-07-2002 17:13									#71
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Thoddy,
I attach a savegame:
Defender Gue, attacker no Gue, City size 12, Anarchy vs. Democracy
Formula says 14 partisan and it IS 14 partisans on my computer (MGE). You have 12 partisans in the sheet.

Attachment: example- size 12, def.gue, gov distance 6.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	16-07-2002 17:45									#72
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A question you got different results when
def has Cmn+gun at citylevel 2?
difference is +1 at your test? Is this correct?

quote: Defender Gue, attacker no Gue, City size 12, Anarchy vs. Democracy- Formula says 14 partisan and it IS 14 partisans on my computer (MGE). You have 12 partisans in the sheet.

I see no difference at the sheet. Your result is empty at this position.
If Defender has Csc adds 2 if not 0, is this the reason?
I will test.

	16-07-2002 18:02									#73
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker I compared my and Thoddy's test results with my formula (see the attached file). (I hope I understood well that Thoddy's original sheets were with no Conscription.)

I add an additional row to every sheet :
Defender. Cmn+Gun
Defender has Csc adds 1 if not 0

Defender Gue
Defender has Csc adds 2 if not 0

Defender Gue Attacker Gue
Defender has Csc adds 1 to all (results)

	17-07-2002 03:00									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Thoddy A question you got different results when def has Cmn+gun at citylevel 2? difference is +1 at your test? Is this correct?

Yes. This was not clear from my sheet?
Read my post from 15-07-2002 23:34: Your Cmn+Gun with govt. distance 6 results are equal to the formula with govt. distance 5 etc.

quote: I see no difference at the sheet. Your result is empty at this position. If Defender has Csc adds 2 if not 0, is this the reason? I will test.

My result is empty because my test in partisan thoddy+slowthinker.zip was made after the sheet.
You have 12 in the cell D32, but the formula gives 14 (cell F32), my test gives 14 too. Please try the partisan thoddy+slowthinker.zip attachment too, the FW and MGE might work a different way...

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker I attach a savegame: Defender Gue, attacker no Gue, City size 12, Anarchy vs. Democracy Formula says 14 partisan and it IS 14 partisans on my computer (MGE). You have 12 partisans in the sheet.

I am sorry, the size of Berlin in the attachment (partisan thoddy+slowthinker.zip) is 36, but 12 (level 2) is the correct size. Please change the size to 12 before taking the city.

	18-07-2002 11:22									#75
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker Thoddy, I attach a savegame: Defender Gue, attacker no Gue, City size 12, Anarchy vs. Democracy Formula says 14 partisan and it IS 14 partisans on my computer (MGE). You have 12 partisans in the sheet.

I test it both results are correct. Seems there is an unknown factor. 12 from my file 14 from your file.
I made a scn. file from my tests. So you can check it with MGE.

First I test the scn with MGE. I got the same results as in FW 12 partisans.

so I made some other tests (only FW) to get a solution but it was not possible to me. Start on different map sizes change Kings(militaristic,agressive...), change civs(romans, French) but at fw all test has the same result-12 Partisans.
use a completely changed rules.txt from a scen nothing else happens.
Change year nothing else happens.

An idea- I disabled the tech from conquest option in my tests. I got this idea at night.

Another idea: Its a random factor stored into the save file at the beginning of every game.