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Oligarf
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What I would like to see are customizable wonders. I mean, you can give a wonder a name, a icon or so, and give it it's special ability. It depends on the ability that is given how long it should take to build.
Wonders become civ-specific, that is more realistic. The ability used should be used by only one civ and should be attached to a specific advance.
Would Russians really build the Statue of Liberty????? They could build something with the same ability but with another name.
So for the Dutch I would propose:
- The Big Barn -Pyramids-
- The VOC (United East-Indian Trading Company) -Adam Smith's Trading Company-
- The Deltaworks -an aquaduct in every city-
- Tasman's Journey -Magellan's Journey-
- Laurens Janszoon Coster Printing Press -a library in every city-
- De Witt's Deal -a marketplace in every city-
Cheerio
Oligarf
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Admiral PJ
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Southeast England , UK
Dec 2000
time: 05:15
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The following is a list of the wonders i've put in to my Civ2 TOT scenario pack (as yet unreleased)
Its less American central, with things like the Houses of Parliament replacing statue liberty (its just a big statue for gods sake  though seriously it should make citizens happy , maybe it could be replaced with something like the shakespeares Theatre) . The parliament stops allowing any new governments(govs are changed in name and tech requirements too) when great democracy is discovered, which normally isn't till about the 1950's or later.
note: i've changed a lot of sciences and they need different links etc so they may look strange here.
Its written in the rules.txt game format, so reads:
Wonder name, Cost x 10, unsupported, Required Tech Advance
Anchor Butter Frozen SeaTrade,50, 0, Rfg,
Tower of Babel, 20, 0, PT,
Great Mosque of Islam(Mecca), 40, 0, Chi, ; was crusades should be with chivalry anyhow
Computer Password Breaker, 50, 0, E2, ; Royal Lighthouses Charter
Academy of Socrates, 40, 0, Phi,
Holy Bible, 50, 0, X3,
Great Wall, 40, 0, X7, ; Jellini's Fusion Shield,60, 0, FP,
The Great Colosseum (Gladiator), 40, 0, Csc,
Great TransOceanic Canal, 50, 0, Exp,
Global Industries Inc.Corp, 40, 0, Cmp,
Royal Inquisition, 60, 0, MT, ;Michelangelo's Chapel
Great Pyramids, 30, 0, Cst, ;asttronomy or Polytheism or Construction
Columbuses New World Colony, 40, 0, Nav,
The Olympic Games, 30, 0, The, ;shakespeares?
Emperor Napoleons Millitary, 60, 0, Gun, ; needs Conscription - building Arc de Triumph too big? Refitting Re-moleculiser Works
Florence Nightingales Hospital, 40, 0, Med,
National Space Agency, 50, 0, SFl, ; Newtons College
Thatchers Privatisation, 60, 0, Fun,
Einstein's Relativity Theory, 40, 0, Ato, ; need scientific theory
Houses of Parliament , 50, 0, Eco,
Eiffel Tower, 40, 0, SE, ; might be better as ohuse of parliament
Full Voting Franchise, 70, 0, Cmn,
Continental Diesel Railroad, 70, 0, Cmb,
Manhattan Project, 70, 0, NF,
United Nations, 70, 0, Fun,
Time-Space Navigator Project, 90, 0, Feu, ; needs Time Eng
A. I. Mind Centre, 70, 0, Cmp,
SETI Contact Program, 80, 0, FP, ; or Fusion Free Power plant?
These correspond to the Civ2 wonders of the following (also includes expiry sciences whereupon the wonder becomes useless)
Pyramids
SE, ; Hanging Gardens
nil, ; Colossus
Sup, ; Lighthouse ; APJ now WW2 Decoding Computer
E1, ; Great Library
Ind, ; Oracle - old religion reduction
Inv, ; Great Wall put slighty later
U1, ; Sun Tzu's War Academy ends with Breech loader
nil, ; King Richard's Crusade
Env, ; Marco Polo's Embassy
Cmn, ; Michelangelo
X6, ; Copernicus Pyramids
Stl, ; Magellan - Expiry change Steel transporters changes trade etc
nil, ; Shakespeare
Mob, ; Leonardo Da Vinci's Workshop APJ may be unwise to use this, if want to use non mechs on ancient world
Rad, ; Bach out of date with tv etc
nil, ; Newton - Nuclear fissions stops it (einsteins theories cancel it out)
FP, ; Smith's Trading Co. Thatchers privatisation, FP gives 'free' energy so services like electricity etc don't need privatisation??? economy messed up,need to find other system
nil, ; Darwin
Dem, ; Statue of Liberty - fundamentalists like anti communists etc stop gov changing quickly..
FP, ; Eiffel Tower
nil, ; Women's Suffrage lots of terrorism criminals soruns out
FP, ; Hoover Dam
nil, ; Manhattan Project -expire with uranium ban?
SFl, ; United Nations
nil, ; Apollo
nil, ; SETI
nil, ; Cure for Cancer
email : peter@artpac.demon.co.uk
(for info on getting my scenario which this came from -Civ2:tot version only right now)
Admiral PJ - riding the unicorn
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Oligarf
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NOT, I can't sing.
Hunebeds are nice, (I'm from Drenthe), our only wonder before the Golden Age.
But what about my Wonder Customizer?
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Admiral PJ
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Southeast England , UK
Dec 2000
time: 05:15
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I don't see any reason why civ shouldn't go into the future, it just needs the futuristic bits to be done well, unlike the Civ:TOT and CTP games.
The old civ games had the alpha centauri ship launching at 2000 which seemed ok, though even that is pretty unrealistic in that timescale.
On the realistic side of things it would take the world till about 2100 in another couple generations to possibly consider world unity in the game another endgame winner(diplomatic win?)
We could do with some more futuristic government choices, such as Feudalist Industrial State(read empire).
The important thing is for gameplay, and futuristic millitary units would help extend the endgame (when you've discovered all the stealth bomber units etc things can be repetitive)
Good futuristic and beliavable things could be - laser artillery weapons(maybe spacebased for anti satellite attack, not surface bombardment), android robot workers, android soldiers(not that far in the future i think), more outerspace planetary colonisation, asteroid attacks.
WONDERS:
Even something like an Area51 UFO capture research lab wonder would be fun and creative. (even if there aren't aliens involved , though I think they probably are)
How about alien contact (wonder?) being an endgame? maybe in another scenario - but it would be immensely important for the human race (and maybe the aliens too .
PJ
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Oligarf
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Cause they actually are sweet little rabbits.
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Oligarf
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I meant: 'Don't fly on those Americans' of course
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Takeshi
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Canada
Jun 1999
time: 00:15
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As for that "modern japanese" wonder that was raised a few posts ago, how about Kansai's floating airport? Ok, so it isn't really floating but as far as I know it's sitting on the biggest man-made island in the world and survived the Kobe quake, which is certainly no mean feat.
http://tlc.discovery.com/tlcpages/s...res_kansai.html
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Fresno
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Europa
Sep 2001
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Locutus
I think the Wonder lists in all Civ games so far have been way too western-centric, there've been way too little Asian, African, Oceanian and Native American wonders. Below is a list of wonders I once made for a CtP mod that I never finished, I tried to include as many different nations as possible (that's why there's only 1 Greek wonder FE; only 'civs' like the Chinese and Indians have more, simply because they were never really a single civ). Because I can't imagine anyone knows all the wonders on this list, I also collected some info on them |
Wow, what a list. To be honest, there are even a few I didn't knew (yes, only a few - why do you think my avatar is a
professor? ). You've included nearly all the Wonders I asked for in this thread. I agree, there are too many western Wonders in the game, but that's because there are only a few non-European civs included. What happened with the Arabs, the Khmer, the Fenicians, the Incas, the Ottomans and many others?
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Fresno
Conclusion: you were threatening your fellow-Europeans... What a shame! 
Serious now:
You are right, the most advanced civilization is currently the Western one. But you can't exclude so many Asian and African civs and Wonders as in Civ2. The civilizations I mentioned just deserve to be included. Civ is about history. For example: for centuries the Muslim world was far more advanced as the Western one. But there isn't a single Muslim tribe in Civ2! |
Hehehe, I am a masochist, I suppose...
I 100%, categorically agree with you. I was just pointing out why it is the case that we all tend to have a European bias in all things historical. It doesn't make the bias right at all! I think, as the world gets smaller, that bias will become less and we will begin to see a more global concept of history.
I do think that they should have included a Muslim/Arab/Ottoman civ as one of the main civs, with Sulayman as the leader. The Caliphate was, after all, one of the greatest empires ever, and certainly dominated at one time. Its omission seems rather incomprehensible. I would rather see them as opposed to the Persians or the Iroquois. Certainly their impact on the world has been far greater.
Cheers
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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:15
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Well, I think that the designers should include many non-Western civs/wonders/etc especially because of all the bias. They should do (cq have done) what they did with Civ1 and Civ2: not only entertain but also educate. I mean, I bet 50% of the Civ2 audience had never heard of the Carthaginians before and had never considered the Persians as a major civilization, to name just 2 examples. I think they should have continued this line in Civ3 and take it a step further: include at least one Muslim (Arab, Turkish), South East Asian (Thai, Khmer) and sub-Saharan (Mali, Ghana, Zimbabwe but not the tiny and insignificant Zulu) civ and a bunch of non-Western wonders from my above list (or other non-Westerns wonders, there are plenty more).
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21-09-2001 21:49
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