21-09-2001 17:38									#31
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I have a game (non-civ) that is translated from English to Swedish via German.
Somethings are totally ununderstandable. (It was a German translation company that did all translations from english, and they started with the German translation.)

	21-09-2001 17:45									#32
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The best translations from anglo to ..??.. are made by native speakers themselves.
I think I'd recognize it immediately if a dutch translation was made by a ... german?/english? person. And I think I would be very annoyed and angry too.

	21-09-2001 17:49									#33
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No, the best translations are made by a team of people born to the Original language that have learnt the language to translate to, and people born to the language to translate to that have learnt the original language.

	21-09-2001 17:56									#34
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In CTP I (and even II, the buggers !!) they couldn't get a lot dutch citynames right. That's blunt stupidity and ignorance.

	21-09-2001 18:18									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Vrank Prins What about marketing reasons. In Europa there are more people speaking german (germany, belgium, luxemburg, switzerland, austria, poland, about 108 million) than english (UK + Ireland, about 70 million) and french (france, belgium, luxemburg and zwitserland about 65 million).

What I meant was: why ONLY put ONE language on the cd (the translation) when it is pretty easy to make a CD with 2+ languages instead. When making a game with several languages more people will buy the game. This means when shipping the game they could take the most used languages (English, German and French) + the local language

quote: Originally posted by Vrank Prins What if you could help to make a good translation of the game you love and be able to add a your native languagepatch to the game ?? I would go for that !! When I started playing CIV-II years ago, I sometimes needed the german text to understand what the english text was about. Besides, I deleted all the french textfiles from the game once I had the game installed on my harddisk.

Me? help to make a good translation of the game??? NO WAY, I'm against translation to other languages than the most common languages (english, german, french). The only thing I am for a translation is for kids stuff...But for nothing else, ok if a danish company makes a game I surely want to see that one translated...into english

	21-09-2001 18:19									#36
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Yikes, civ in portuguese... No thanks, keep Mao Tse Tung and the rest of the gang talking english please.

Que raio de piada é que teria o Civ3 com aquela malta toda a falar português?

	21-09-2001 18:25									#37
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Why not make it Ido only?
That is a world language, isn't it.

	21-09-2001 19:05									#38
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Well, I had a lot of fun with Civ2 in Portuguese... I think that when the game is translated into your native language, the insults from other players become a lot more personal...

Sure, I did not have the famous "consequences, schmonsequences..." thing, but the translation helps to create a deeper sense of immersion.

But I would prefer Civ3 in English, for a good and simple reason that has not been mentioned yet on this thread: MODS. I´m pretty sure that, soon after Civ3 is released, a lot of mods will come up on the net, modifying and tweaking various aspects of the gameplay, and those modifications mostly deal with the text files. Since English is the official internet language, of course those mods will require Civ3 in English (unless you want to translate all the modified text files to your native language everytime you download a new mod... ). So I think that English is the way to go.

quote: Que raio de piada é que teria o Civ3 com aquela malta toda a falar português?

Suponho que seria no mínimo estranho ver os Babilônios a falar inglês...

	21-09-2001 23:04									#39
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quote: That's like saying "James Bond is fine in Duch, as long as Rutger Hauer does the voiceover". Nah, I don't think so.

Certainly not, I do not like voice-overs, but subtitles are a very good solution. Books of some writers I prefer in the original english, others like Jack Vance I cannot understand in english, but I enjoy translated.

Kompreneble mi scias ke la angla ne estas la internacia lingvo, sed bedaurinde la usonanoj gajnis la lingvan batalon. Ne estas la plej bona solvo, sed samkiel vindozo ghi solvas la nunan problemojn, do ni devas travivi chi tiun situacion.

Kats in t plat is natuurlijk allemachtig mooie::
Wiej schrievt 50 joar veyr Christus. Gallie is hilndal inn"omn de Romeinn. Hilndal? Bo nee! Een d"orpken met opsternoate Galliers d"ot aait nog teagnb"orseln. De Romeinse legioensoldoatn in de umlignde kaampemeantn Haemencum, Laudanum, Taemetrum en Aquarium hebt der niks te v"olle an...

	22-09-2001 00:00									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Tventano Certainly not, I do not like voice-overs, but subtitles are a very good solution.

Yes, but only if they are done right. The most stupid thing is when the original actor makes a joke and the subtitle people just don't understand it and translate it word by word.

(btw: You (=Tventano) are from Enschede? Isn't that the city which had the involuntary firework party?)

Normally i have the choice of buying import games at a local game store here in switzerland, but they are VERY expensive and Civ 3 probably won't be a cheap game anyway.

Another solution for the Civ 3 language problem could be warez. I did that before: Just download the warez version, buy the local version and then exchange files. Once i even managed to download just an english demo of the game and patch the german retail version with it's sound and text files.

AHH, i want Civ 3 NOW!

Rince

	22-09-2001 01:38									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Earthling7 Talk to me in Twents, pleeze...

As oe dat geerne hef dan wol ik dat wa doon, moar wat möt ik zeg'n dan? (kiek aans ok es noar mien signature)

quote: allinnig as ieje met goat brommers kiek'n

Zeg eh, hènig an 'n betjen, ie onmeunig döle weendbuul! Zo ene bin ik nich, erst moar es wat better lear'n ken'n, dan kiek'n wie wa wat wot!

Joa, Tventano, Asterix in 't plat bint inderdoad allemachtig good, dat moch ik geerne les'n!
(Hmm, Tweants skrief'n is 'n stuk moeilijker dan spreak'n, wee hat dat dacht?)

Yep, Rince, our hometown of Enschede is the only city in world where you can oversee the entire city by standing on a beer crate (Well, actually I myself officially live in Hengelo, a town that neighbours Enschede, but I usually spend most of the day in Enschede so I kind of regard it my hometown as well)

	22-09-2001 02:26									#42
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Kompreneble mi scias ke la angla ne estas la internacia lingvo, sed bedaurinde la usonanoj gajnis la lingvan batalon. Ne estas la plej bona solvo, sed samkiel vindozo ghi solvas la nunan problemojn, do ni devas travivi chi tiun situacion.

...Esperanto? Or is it Ido? My Esperanto is VERY rusty, and bad, and I know that Ido is similar...

	22-09-2001 11:29									#43
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I'm sure we can all agree that most of us here, native English speakers or not, prefer the English language version. But then...we all command English with some degree of skill. But what of those not so fortunate? In Europe they are the - believe it or not - the majority. Most non-native English speakers would find it difficult, if not impossible, to get through the manual (which is essential in a game as complex as civ). Surely other language versions are warranted, but not to a degree that in those countries you cannot buy the English version - that is just plain ridiculous.

I, for one, would hate to be stuck with a Danish version, just because the English one is not available.

Asmodean

	22-09-2001 12:06									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Asmodean Surely other language versions are warranted, but not to a degree that in those countries you cannot buy the English version - that is just plain ridiculous.

AMEN

	22-09-2001 13:09									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Asmodean (btw: You (=Tventano) are from Enschede? Isn't that the city which had th

Yes I am living in Enschede, the fire works disaster happened on saterday the 13th of May 2000 twenty before four in the afternoon. Every citizen of Enschede still knows exactly where he was and what he was doing that day. Just like, I can imagine all New-Yorkers will remember for a long time there they were on the 11th of September.

quote: Originally posted by Daoloth ...Esperanto? Or is it Ido? My Esperanto is VERY rusty, and bad, and I kn

Esperanto, I do speak that language over twenty years, and used it in the past a lot for traveling. There are still books and magazines printed, and also on the Internet there is some info about Esperanto. Ido, Valap"uk and thousands of other ideas are long dead. Esperanto (Internacia Lingvo=International Language) is the ideal solution for the language problem, english is a suboptimal solution which is the current choice, just like we choose Windows and other Microsoft products just because of good marketing.

quote: Originally posted by Locutus Joa, Tventano, Asterix in 't plat bint inderdoad allemachtig good, dat moch ik geerne les'n! (Hmm, Tweants skrief'n is 'n stuk moeilijker dan spreak'n, wee hat dat dacht?)

Writing in Twents is quite difficult, especially if you ar enot used to it. The Asterix is for sale in any bookshop in Twente, so just pick it up. The only way to read it is by pronouncing it in your head, otherwise it is not really possible.

	22-09-2001 13:28									#46
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Ido is easier then Esperanto, but they are quite equal from what I know. I've to learn them in the future. As it is right I only know a few words. Still I think there should be an option to play civ on Ido. That way I would be able to learn Ido from the game.

	22-09-2001 16:09									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Rince Another solution for the Civ 3 language problem could be warez. I did that before: Just download the warez version, buy the local version and then exchange files. Once i even managed to download just an english demo of the game and patch the german retail version with it's sound and text files.

That is a solution in some cases, but in games where there's a lot of movies it's just not posible

And is that really the point of the gamedevelopers, to have people go to the store to buy the game, go home and install the game, go online to waste many hours to download a warez version of a game you have just bought...If this is they point then those developers are just as stupid as those who runs the city I live in (and they are real stupid...)

	22-09-2001 16:15									#48
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quote: Originally posted by ADG That is a solution in some cases, but in games where there's a lot of movies it's just not posible

Have we seen any of those movies and heard any speaking people.
IIRC Firaxis said that such things became boring as it always was the same, and they maybe have no movies. And with only text strings I see no reason why not include all languages on the same disc. But I guess that is Infogames thing to decide.

	22-09-2001 16:33									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos Have we seen any of those movies and heard any speaking people. IIRC Firaxis said that such things became boring as it always was the same, and they maybe have no movies. And with only text strings I see no reason why not include all languages on the same disc. But I guess that is Infogames thing to decide.

Hey, when they don't take any movies in there wont be any problems with including more languages than just the local lanuage...but I'd say, IF they put in some movies let the movies be english...

	22-09-2001 16:34									#50
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When do we hear something about this from FIRAXIS people. Did they choose the wrong path and now they're to scared to know what to say

	22-09-2001 16:41									#51
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quote: Originally posted by ADG When do we hear something about this from FIRAXIS people. Did they choose the wrong path and now they're to scared to know what to say

I think it is up to Infogames to decide this sort of things, but Firaxis could tell us if there are any speech in the game.

	22-09-2001 16:54									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos I think it is up to Infogames to decide this sort of things

That may be true, but would Firaxis not know about that? I'm sure they signed a contract or something, and if not, Sid should be interested in what happens to his creation.

	22-09-2001 17:37									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Earthling7 That may be true, but would Firaxis not know about that? I'm sure they signed a contract or something, and if not, Sid should be interested in what happens to his creation.

Maybe, but I think that the publisher decides things as how many versions of the game to make, and if the game shall be ported to different platforms and so on. I don't think Firaxis has anything with the translation to do except creating the tools required to translate the game.

	22-09-2001 19:05									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Tventano Kompreneble mi scias ke la angla ne estas la internacia lingvo, sed bedaurinde la usonanoj gajnis la lingvan batalon. Ne estas la plej bona solvo, sed samkiel vindozo ghi solvas la nunan problemojn, do ni devas travivi chi tiun situacion.

Al Firaxis:
Vi povas gajni uzantojn se vi tradukas la ludon al Esperanto. Estas KVAR personoj cxi tie kiu parolas Esperanton. Se ni acxetas gxin, vi havus du cent dolarojn de ni. Por traduki la ludon, oni povas fari gxin por cxirkaux tridek dolaroj. Vi gajnas monon!

Tiel, TRADUKU CIVILIZACION III AL LA LINGVO INTERNACIA!

	23-09-2001 00:03									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Earthling7 That may be true, but would Firaxis not know about that? I'm sure they signed a contract or something, and if not, Sid should be interested in what happens to his creation.

I believe FIRAXIS should at least know what happens to the game when it will be released

	23-09-2001 05:38									#56
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Everybody knows English. Can't say the same about these other languages.

English, it's the unofficial official language of the world.

Bræsh unçer öijiô pòx nÿsk Civilization III auf Ünglisch!

	23-09-2001 06:19									#57
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quote: Most non-native English speakers would find it difficult, if not impossible, to get through the manual (which is essential in a game as complex as civ).

Sure, but I think that the local publisher would translate the manual, even if in a shoddy way... At least that is what a local publisher did here in Brazil when SMAC was released. The game was in English, but the manual was translated into Portuguese. It was a baaad translation, but anyway...

quote: I think that the publisher decides things as how many versions of the game to make, and if the game shall be ported to different platforms and so on.

True. When SMAC was about to be released, I sent an e-mail to Firaxis asking about a Portuguese version, and they answered me that I should write to Electronic Arts in order to get information about versions and such things, since the publisher was actually responsible for those issues.

Well, I sent an e-mail to Infogrames asking them the same question regarding Civ3, and guess what...? No answer at all. Three weeks. I suppose I'll have to wait and see...

	23-09-2001 18:07									#58
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quote: Originale skribita de JellyDonut Vi povas gajni uzantojn se vi tradukas la ludon al Esperanto. Estas KVAR personoj cxi tie kiu parolas Esperanton. Se ni acxetas gxin, vi havus du cent dolarojn de ni. Por traduki la ludon, oni povas fari gxin por cxirkaux tridek dolaroj. Vi gajnas monon!

Cxu vi pretas fari tiun laboron kantraux nur tridek dolaroj? Laux mi estas suficxe da laboro, versxajne oni bezonas pli ol unu tago!

Cetere, kial neniu preparis tradukon de CivII en la Internacia Lingvo? Mi vidis tradukojn al kelkaj naciaj lingvoj...

	23-09-2001 19:17									#59
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Please, Firaxis, no bad translations

Here in Norway we've had the manual ONLY in Norwegian for Fallout and The Settlers II. (those are the ones i can recall now) Speaking of confusion. (let's see. the button should be here somewhere )

Nemesis of the North

	23-09-2001 19:33									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Nemesis of the North Please, Firaxis, no bad translations

IMO the best way to assure no bad translations is to not translate at all. Maybe the editor will provide some language-editing tool, for those of you who'd like to change the insults available in negotiations for something a little more familiar... but don't mention their mothers.
BTW, Firaxis hasn't said anything about this that I can recall, so probably the only language available will be english.
More time to focus on the really important stuff e quem não perceber inglês que se lixe.