22-09-2001 05:44									#1
	New website, LotR, etc... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hi,
Though I'm not doing Civ2 scenarios anymore, what with Civ3 coming out soon and all, I have a new website that could be useful for any Civ-type game. You can find it here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...30&pagenumber=1

You can also find a forum thread about it here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...24&pagenumber=1

The gist is, its a website of maps that show economic features, trade, roads, vegegation, culture, religion, and other data, but not maps of just political boundaries, since those are a dime a dozen.

Anyways, I have a problem in that the site its on right now is actually my work website, and it can't stay there for long. I was wondering if there was a chance the Scenario League or Leaguers could help out? Any ideas, at least? And of course, any maps to add? JB, if you don't have some Spanish maps to add, then you're letting down the Spanish civilization in a big way .

PS- Actually it isn't true that I'm completely done with Civ2 - there is a current effort by several people to make a massively overhauled ToT version of Lord of the Rings that I've been advising on. Its sooo much better than the original! We could really use help to get it across the finish line, and soon there'll be a call for playtesters. Its pretty close to finishing, but a lot of event work is needed, not to mention the playtesting. We want to have it done with some weeks to spare before Civ3 comes out (I'm assuming end of October for that game's release), so that doesn't leave much time. Surprisingly, LotR may actually work better in ToT than Civ3, mainly because of the multi-level feature.

PPS- John, I just noticed on another thread that you've stopped working on Boot 2. I'm gonna have to go over to your house and open up a can of whoop-ass - don't tell me I made that map for nothing!

	23-09-2001 02:13									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Harlan, a while ago Captain Nemo mentioned that you had made him a map of Russia for Red Front 2.0. Seeing as Captain Nemo appears to have given up on Civ, could you release the map?

Last edited by Case on 23-09-2001 at 02:24

	23-09-2001 02:52									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Case,
Yep, you're right. Sigh, add to the pile of uncompleted projects. I'm very disappointed Nemo never finished an update of Red Front. In early 2000, I worked a long time on a completely revised map, which I think is much better, if I do say so myself! I went to great lengths to determine exact city sizes at the time, location of railroads, industry, and so on.

Here are some screenshots of it:





I include the area around Stalingrad, cos I thought that was the area that needed most work.

I guess Nemo never found the energy to redo all the events, and then playtest, which would have taken a long time. Are you interested in carrying on the good work, or do you just want the raw map? Let me know what you want, and I'll send you some files.

What's the story with Nemo - has he given up on all civ-type games, or just Civ2?

	23-09-2001 16:13									#4
	AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That is one brilliant website! And I think I can help!

How long do you think you can keep the website online? I´m currently working on a new maps-only civ2/civ3 website myself (well, a replacement for my current one). I only have an empty and outdated "preview" online here: http://gene.wins.uva.nl/~jvermeir/civ2mm
The only thing worth looking at now is the links section.

I´ll have a section housing over 600 civ2 maps etc. if I get around to adding them all with description screenshot and rating to my database. Your site would fit perfectly on my website...
And the good thing is, my site will most likely get hosted at Apolyton. I´ve talked to Dan about this already. I can get it hosted when it´s up and running. That may take some time yet, but I´ll probably launch the site when the first batch of maps is in the database (anyone wanna help?)

It won´t exactly be a low-key site (or hopefully not anyway), but I could perhaps have your site be a "hidden" section, and prevent search-engines from indexing it etc.

P.S. I suggest adding the <META name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow"> in the head of all pages to prevent search engines from adding that page to their index, and to prevent them from following the links on that page.

	23-09-2001 21:56									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hi Mercator,
Looks like you like the website?

Actually, I don't need to worry about hosting anymore. Something has been worked out, though I shouldn't say what just yet. Once that goes through, secrecy need not be such a big issue. Though I still will follow your tip to prevent search engines from finding it. Once I'm at the new site, its fine if other civ-sites link to it, but I don't want the wider outside world finding it.

By the way, your site looks about a 1000 times better than mine. I love the font and the look.

Another way you could help is if you have any scanned maps that fall under the site's mandate. I'd be very surprised if a serious map fan like you didn't.

	24-09-2001 01:24									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Harlan, could you please just send me the map? Send it to: nick_dowling@hotmail.com
I don't have any reason for needing the map, I just like to collect Civ related stuff

	24-09-2001 01:54									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Case,
I just sent you the map, and the terrain files that go with it. Of course you'll lose the city info and everything else, with just the .mp file. I'm bummed no one wants to take this on. Does anyone else at least want the map so it can be posted on a website?

Oh well. Some distant day I'd like to do an Eastern Front scenario for Civ3 (assuming the game is good!), and that map can be the starting point for that.

	24-09-2001 03:40									#8
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I'll take the map and the .SAV file and whatever else you'd like to include. It will be posted on the Cradle of Civilization.

	24-09-2001 04:05									#9
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Thanks

	24-09-2001 19:34									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Jay Bee reporting for duty, Sire

	24-09-2001 20:36									#11
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Harlan Hi Mercator, Looks like you like the website?

I just maps!

quote: Actually, I don't need to worry about hosting anymore.

Great, I´m sure I´ll add a link to the site.

quote: By the way, your site looks about a 1000 times better than mine. I love the font and the look.

Thanks! I´ve been working on it off and on from the summer of 2000. The front looks quite a bit different now (in the version that will become the real site). I´m working hard on it.

quote: Another way you could help is if you have any scanned maps that fall under the site's mandate. I'd be very surprised if a serious map fan like you didn't.

If only... I do love maps, but since I don´t have a scanner I rely mostly on Internet sources. And even more, apart from a "normal" Atlas from 1989 or something I don´t even have any special map sources. The images on your site do make me think about getting one, though.
But there are several historical periods and geographical regions I´m especially interested in, and those are most often only represented by just a handfull of maps. And to get a giant Atlas of hundreds of guilders for just those few maps... But then again, maybe I´m just cheap Maybe I should ask one for my birthday or something.

Oh yes, send me that map too, please. Do you have any other maps? Does anyone else have other (new) civ2 maps?

I WANT MAPS! I want my site to become the one-stop civ2 (and civ3) map source, so send over those maps!

	25-09-2001 03:30									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Okay,
William and Mercator I'll send you that map. William I don't see the point of sending the sav. file though, since its not an actual playable game - just a half completed thing.

Mercator, buy yourself a scanner! They have very good ones for less than $100 here in the US. You don't need to buy expensive books either. I got most of my stuff from the library. They even have a nice interlibrary loan program, so I can get my hands on just about any book in the world if I really want it (though it costs $2 for each, and can take months to come in). If you're cheap, that's a good cheap way to get your hands on tons of maps, and put them on your or my website.

JB, thanks in advance for the help. Iberia is a real weak point on the site - I only have two Iberia-focused maps now, and one of those only shows roads.

	01-11-2002 19:04									#13
	Re: New website, LotR, etc... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Harlan PS- Actually it isn't true that I'm completely done with Civ2 - there is a current effort by several people to make a massively overhauled ToT version of Lord of the Rings that I've been advising on. Its sooo much better than the original! We could really use help to get it across the finish line, and soon there'll be a call for playtesters. Its pretty close to finishing, but a lot of event work is needed, not to mention the playtesting. We want to have it done with some weeks to spare before Civ3 comes out (I'm assuming end of October for that game's release), so that doesn't leave much time. Surprisingly, LotR may actually work better in ToT than Civ3, mainly because of the multi-level feature.

Anybody knows what happened with this project? It was so promising...

	01-11-2002 21:33									#14
	Suffering from ads?

It was. After we added first 2 and then a third underground map, somehow a glitch developed in which units became blocked by their own civs zones of control. Perhaps in all the modification done by four people, on four computers and passed back and forth many times by email, something weird happened to the file. Anyway, you could say it was "lost in the Mines of Moria".

	01-11-2002 23:47									#15
	Support Apolyton

Are all the files still there somewhere? I could try and use my "hex-editing powers" to try and "solve" it. It would probably take a long time (seeing as I'm studying too, and working on a dozen other Civ2 things, it seems)... But at least that would be better than throwing it all away.

	01-11-2002 23:57									#16
	Support Apolyton

Absolutely. You're welcome to give it a shot. But why do I get the feeling you're trying to avoid finishing the ToT sprite editor?

	02-11-2002 02:31									#17
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Not at all... I can't say no, that's my biggest problem. I love hex-editing, programming, map making, and website building... But most of my time is spent surfing Apolyton and "graduating".

I really don't (shouldn't!) have much time during the week. But once I've started Civ2-"work", I can't stop, so I have to plan carefully (which I don't do)...

Apart from that, I have yet to figure out the unitXX.spr and resource.spr files, so before that there's not too much I can do about it.

The LotR scenario will most likely lie around collecting dust on my harddrive for a while, but that's happening now too (except not on my harddrive).

	02-11-2002 04:14									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Mercator Not at all... I can't say no, that's my biggest problem. I love hex-editing, programming, map making, and website building... But most of my time is spent surfing Apolyton and "graduating". I really don't (shouldn't!) have much time during the week. But once I've started Civ2-"work", I can't stop, so I have to plan carefully (which I don't do)...

Same here. When I start to program my utility, I can not stop. And now I must do a project in order to end my degree..

If you want some goods civ3 maps, you can visit el mencey (a member of the spanish gang) homepage:

http://perso.wanadoo.es/civ3maps/

quote: Originally posted by Harlan JB, thanks in advance for the help. Iberia is a real weak point on the site - I only have two Iberia-focused maps now, and one of those only shows roads.

Harlan, If I can help you, I'd do, but I am not a good mapmaker

BTW, I've enjoyed your scens too much. Thank you for all your work

	02-11-2002 04:18									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

So where's the site now? I tried the link in your thread, but it lead me nowhere. Which is a shame, because I'd have to see the site, since I might just have a huge pile of politcal, economic and other maps to provide, especially of Asia, and mostly of Persia and the Middle East. Well, most of them are in German anyway...

	02-11-2002 15:06									#20
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Stefan Härtel So where's the site now? I tried the link in your thread, but it lead me nowhere. Which is a shame, because I'd have to see the site, since I might just have a huge pile of politcal, economic and other maps to provide, especially of Asia, and mostly of Persia and the Middle East. Well, most of them are in German anyway...

Go to apolyton.net mainpage, click "civ 3 scenario haven", it's been there for a while (sometime around when this thread was originally started last year).

	02-11-2002 15:59									#21
	Remove this text

Oh. I just noticed. Whoops
I guess you can forget what I said.

	02-11-2002 17:20									#22
	Need help? Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by techumseh It was. After we added first 2 and then a third underground map, somehow a glitch developed in which units became blocked by their own civs zones of control. Perhaps in all the modification done by four people, on four computers and passed back and forth many times by email, something weird happened to the file. Anyway, you could say it was "lost in the Mines of Moria".

Hi,
Paul Cullivan (one of the four who worked on your LotR project) recently contacted me, telling me of this project. I'd love to see the finished game (being a huge fan of Harlan's original) -- but it looks like it may never see the light of day.
I might be able to help -- perhaps you could send me the files you have and I'll see if I can fix them.
Although my own Civ2 scenarios ("Moria", "Return of the King" (and the upcoming "Fellowship")) are for the standard Civ2 engine, I'd be curious to see how a LotR game would turn out using ToT.

	03-11-2002 04:28									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by yaroslav Same here. When I start to program my utility, I can not stop. And now I must do a project in order to end my degree..

Why can't we just make a living making free Civ utilities, maps, websites etc. Who needs a degree anyway?

quote: If you want some goods civ3 maps, you can visit el mencey (a member of the spanish gang) homepage: http://perso.wanadoo.es/civ3maps/

No Civ3 for me, thank you. (some nice maps though)

	03-11-2002 05:27									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Mercator Why can't we just make a living making free Civ utilities, maps, websites etc. Who needs a degree anyway?

Yes. And now microprose is no more... So, they will not hire us to do a new Civ2

quote: Originally posted by Mercator No Civ3 for me, thank you. (some nice maps though)

In fact, I love Civ2, and I think that is much better than Civ3. The reason for me to provide you with that link was this quote:

quote: Originally posted by Mercator ... I WANT MAPS! I want my site to become the one-stop civ2 (and civ3) map source, so send over those maps!

BTW, I have used extensively your map's hex-editing guide. Thank you

	03-11-2002 06:06									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by yaroslav In fact, I love Civ2, and I think that is much better than Civ3. The reason for me to provide you with that link was this quote: ...

Ah! But look at the date of that post. It was before Civ3 was even released. Back then I was still assuming I'd buy (and get addicted to) Civ3.

quote: BTW, I have used extensively your map's hex-editing guide. Thank you

My pleasure. That's why I love doing all this.

	11-03-2003 01:13									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

BUMP!

This is the thread on which the map for RF v2.0 was mentioned (see post 3 on page 1). Unfortunately all I can see are red X's.

Apparently Harlan sent it to Case, so maybe he still has it on his hard drive?

	11-03-2003 02:11									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hey, Harlan!
No, you don't know me, but I love your LotR scenario, and as long as we're on the topic:
Have you considered making the Ents into a domain 3 unit(as described by Darth Spoot and Blackclove on the Sleague page)? As an air unit, well, they work, but the invincibility doesn't make much sense, nor does the "running out of fuel" thing. As domain 3s with a move of 1, they'd be attackable, never run out of fuel, and by the time you managed to march them down to Minas Tirith like you were afraid of, the damned scenario would be nearly over anyway. They still wouldn't be able to occupy cities. If you gave 'em a move of two, they might eventually get to Tirith, yeah, but they'd also be able to attack twice per turn like fighters or ground units. I think D3s also ignore SAMs and SDIs, in case you feel the urge to add those in later versions. Assuming D3s exist in ToT....just a suggestion from a fan.

	11-03-2003 04:29									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

Interesting, but Harlan started this thread in 21-09-2001 20:44:44. I don't know if he's still around.

	11-03-2003 07:42									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Oh. Duh. Well, he'll, uh, probably hear my suggestion through, ah, the grapevine...or something. Heh, I feel dumb. Guess I'm not used to forums with threads that last this long. Thanks for telling me before I made another suggestion tho.