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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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tuckson,
" Who the heck made up the a"bandonware "thing"? There is no such thing as "abandonware" for free though. Just like any other thing that is protected by copyrights (like books and songs and stuff like that) the law states certain period for which the right is at force (sorry if this sounds funny, but I'm no native english speaker, so lawyer's english is not one of my strong points). At least over here in Holland it does."
Theoretically speaking yes, but in practice many games are abandoned due to a number of reasons, so there are websites that host these games to be downloaded for free.
Dan,
" My personal view on the situation (hey, you asked) is that anytime I hear someone on a forum proclaim (usually proudly, I might add) that they are going to pirate one of our games, I add them to my ignore list and move on. Nothing I can say will change their minds."
I beg to differ. There are many different reasons why people want to pirate or even advocate piracy.
- Those who have no money. This is the group you can't do anything about.
- Those who just want to test the programs, no harm done here. Why can a consumer test drive a car but not test use a program? I am not talking about a demo or beta software here, I am talking about a full version.
- Those who do it out of spite or revenge against shoddy games they bought before. Don't forget you can only return purchases in some countries. Take me for example the last 10 games I bought only two I found worth playing. That's roughly USD320 I lost to shoddy games. Not that I wasn't careful either I read reviews, but reviews often fail me. The person who wrote the review for Starfleet Command hasn't really played the boardgame. The Sims, lets not talk about The Sims. I am not saying I pirate software as a revenge, but there are those who do. You need to make them see that it is wrong to lump every developer into the same camp.
- Those who just want to play a game before it is officially released in their countries.
- What about those who pre-ordered a game on a promised feature which gets cancelled later? Suppose that some players pre-ordered Civ 3 in Hong Kong (no mandatory return laws) for MP games just to find out that there's no MP, and that they may have to pay extra? How should this grieviance be redressed?
Jason Beaudoin,
" To put things into perspective, I ask you this: Why does it cost me only about 25 dollars CDN to buy a multi-millioin dollar Hollywood movie on DVD, and 80 dollars CDN to buy a computer game?"
A few reasons. First is there are many venues through which movies can make money. First of all there are cinemas. Then there is DVD. The studios can also lease the movies to be shown on TV. Last but not least there is merchandising.
An important distinction should be made between "cost" and "value." How many times you watch a DVD? 10 times? That's about 20 hours worth of entertainment. How many games of Civ 2 have you played? Hundreds of hours easily.
smellymummy,
Bootlegged CDs are a concern, but my perspective is humans are basically honest and good. Most people will gladly pay for something if they think they are getting their money's worth.
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tuckson
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin
To put things into perspective, I ask you this: Why does it cost me only about 25 dollars CDN to buy a multi-millioin dollar Hollywood movie on DVD, and 80 dollars CDN to buy a computer game? If you say it's because of the lack of audience for computer games, well then, are you trying to attract more players by selling at extremely high prices?
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Well, consider for example that the making of Civ3 lasts for several years now. The efforts for making a neat game lies on an bit a higher level than that of making a music cd (and yes, I like music too, so I'm not out here to crush on that).
So it's kind of logical that games are a bit more expensive.
I think of all commercially available software, games are pretty nice priced, compared to (again for example) Office suites or operating systems or whatever you want. Even for some shareware, prices often reach hights for above the financial possibilities of the avarage PC user.
If you want a cheap game, buy yourself a commercial variant of minesweeper.
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OneFootInTheGrave
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Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:15
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When people who have no money dl the game it at least gives the game a wider audience... those people would never have bought the game at all, and when those people get the money, they will most likely buy the games they loved, and continue to purchase the games. In this case i think that piracy is good and that it makes the medium (games) available to much wider audience.
Personally at the time when i did no thave money i played Civ 1 from a friends copy, the same happened with civ 2 ... however later i have bought Civ1 , civ 2, ctp and ctp II. and of course I will buy Civ III, no doubt about that. So if there was no Civ 1 that was pirated by law.. the games idustry would have one less fanatic that buys its games, so would Firaxis.
And one more example of this... Half-life.. it came out while I still didn't have money... but after finishing it, I bought a copy for myself.. and afer two years, after I lost that one (and the game became corrupted) , i bought another one so I can play the mods... there you go this is how the games should be developed. Personally now.. when I work ther is no reason for me dl the games or pyrate in any other way, but before it made sense since i couldn't contribute to the company profits anyway... and because of that the industry will get my money for the rest of my like... if there was no piracy, most likely that i woulld have had some other hobby by the time I started working, as many of my other friends do. They were never charmed with games at the time they could allow themselves to be attracted.
I think pirating should be controlled so that only those who need it the most (cannot afford it, and similar) can actually be bothered to acquire it. Later on when you make money it is certainly easier (and if you have any morals better, still the emphasis is on easier  ) to go to the nearest shop and purchase the game.
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tuckson
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You still didn't have money when half-life came out?
And you stated that once you did get the money you bought civ1, civ2 AND CTP2? After years you still bought Civ1?
Oh please, give us a break...
I'm getting indigestion of those wimpy stories...
BE A GUY AND BUY THE STUFF OR DON'T PLAY ' EM, BUT AT LEAST SHOW SOME GUTS BY NOT PIRATING IT.
Blah...
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Adm.Naismith
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Milano - Italy
Oct 1999
time: 06:15
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I don't want to spend much time posting in a thread that probably never change the mind of anyone 
I just would like to note that the use of pirated copies for trial porpuse only is technical illegal, but not unethical, IMHO.
Any game producer can easily solve this point distributing at least a limited demo. Music shops let you listen at least first few seconds of any songs before you buy - no return policy if CD is not phisical damaged, but with music we don't have compatibility issue AFAIK, so that's fine. 
I have liked SMAC (no compatibility trouble), but SMACX demo constantly freeze on my PC: Firaxis can't help so I avoided to buy a piece of unusable sw (for me, I stress this) and considering we in Italy haven't a return/refund policy on sw for anything different from a damaged CD ROM, the Firaxis effort to give me a demo of SMACx helped both.
No angry customer is still better than a customer lost forever, IMO.
But Infogrames/Firaxis AFAIK chosed to avoid the demo opportunity/risk. I feel me free to consider alternatives for the only purpose to check game before a regular buy.
If some friends of mine can lend me his copy I'll use it to check, if not I'll look around.
Reviews and Apolyton forum can't give me info about compatibility with my hw/sw, of course. Too bad if an irregular copy will crash for its "cracked fault" and not for original Firaxis code problem 
I'll miss a game: I will have still my 60$ to spend for something useful. Good meals are usually very compatible with my hw 
Piracy is dead wrong, but customers can't be let out alone in the cold: you can't do this in any others commerce, so why SW developers and distributors should be able to do so? 
They deserve good money for a working products, nothing less but nothing more. 
And now I'm wondering if Dan Magaha is putting me too on the black list... 
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gerkenbr
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São Paulo - Brazil
Sep 2001
time: 02:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Executor
How many of the people here actually bought their copy of Windows or Office? Just wondering. |
I bought: MS EXCEL 4, Windows 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98.
Word 6, Excel 5, Office 95, Office 2000. (among others)
Piracy = STEAL, you can build as many excuses as you will.
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Wiglaf
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Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:15
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even as a hardened debator I find it difficult to dispute you point, gerkenbr. Be fearful, however, as within the next four days I plan to start a thread targeting the legality of washing clothes, commiting armed robbery, battery, assault, and sharpening pencils. We'll see who gets the last laugh after I'm through quoting common sense, the Constitution, the Supreme Court of America, local California laws, and area traffic cops. All your experiance in the field will be put to the test as you sweat over whether or not armed robbery is 'wrong' or 'right' pending circumstances. As a trick question, I'll ask whether or not 'hitting' someone is a mental or spiritual action. Wait and see!
Honestly I think this thread does more harm than good. While you claim a good arguement can come up, a number of other issues can also be discussed from a broad philosophical standpoint for hours, days, and weeks on end for no practical purpose.
Pirating is wrong, end of story. A chit chat only makes it more desireable to the undecided.
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25-09-2001 08:19
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