28-09-2001 00:52									#121
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and me shuting people down
I am saying, do not play a judge. You dont have right to judge others.

you could have also written "I ll buy original civ3. I think firaxis deserve that. I support them"

but when you order to other people what to do, how and why ("get a job") you are moralising and

preaching

and thats ok too. thousand persons thousand oppinions as they say

	28-09-2001 02:29									#122
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quote: My english is not perfect. I know very well what it hypocrate means in croatian. You see, in my language, when you reply differently to same thing, you are hypocrate (hipokrat).

Same word, still used improperly. First, you would have to KNOW that I have illegal software on my machine. Well let me answer that: I HAVE NONE. Now, when I was much younger, I did copy a few games for the Commodore 64...so I'm not saying I don't understand the impulse.

quote: I am not preaching to people. I am replying to you.

No. You are replying to everybody here who shares my view as well.

quote: Yin, if you are active only about civ 3 you are a hypocrate. You do same for all games you like? EU? other software?

Again, you are wrong. I don't have to spend my time fighting piracy in a public way about EVERY game I play. Sure, if somebody in the EU forum mentions they have a pirated copy, I will blast them. So why don't I start a thread there? Because I think Civ3 is a much bigger target for pirates.

Mother Theresa didn't feed EVERY starving person, did she? What a hypocrite!

quote: On the other hand, if you do not have any illegal mp3s, games (and never had), and you have reported to police every person (friend?) who you know has illegal software, then you are not hypocrate. Then you are just a Moral Policeman Who Himself Is Pure

Again, you use strange logic. Never did I say that I would hunt down people who pirate Civ3 and put them in jail. It is a personal choice...and a choice I feel was worthy of discussing here among Civ3 fans

And I don't have to call the police to stop from being a hypocrite. Your extreme examples aren't helping you any.

quote: You are explaining to people from a high moral position that they musnt pirate civ 3. You are asking for bans. Who are you to judge other peoples situations and morale? I am saying, do not play a judge. You dont have right to judge others.

I can judge whoever and whatever I want. I have every 'right' to judge other just as you are judging me. If you ask me, it is YOU taking the high moral ground.

And I will repeat it: Anybody here who is stupid enough to admit to pirating Civ3 should be banned. Period. I have no shame in saying it.

And as for 'other people's situations,' that's a BS argument. I have yet to hear ANY good argument for pirating Civ3. I don't want to hear bleed heart garbage about the economy of Europe for God's sake. I have no sympathy for you if you can't afford the game so justify yourself in stealing it. None.

quote: you could have also written "I ll buy original civ3. I think firaxis deserve that. I support them"

When I want your opinion on what I will write, I'll give it to you.

quote: but when you order to other people what to do, how and why ("get a job") you are moralising and preaching

Yes, I'm preaching because I am right and you are making lame excuses. This is true.

	28-09-2001 02:50									#123
	Put an end to popups!

Before I head out for the day, I just want to say to you, Vet: I realize that my thread on this topic will probably 99% change NOTHING. I know this. But this is a gaming forum normally filled with people who aren't 'just here' but people who care about the game. Now, if you would like to give me even ONE good case for pirating Civ3, I'll take back everything I said against it.

	28-09-2001 05:11									#124
	Increase Your PM Length

What's pirating? Making an illegal copy perhaps? What about for evaluation purposes? Or perhaps making do with the illegal copy until the real thing shows up?

	28-09-2001 06:00									#125
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 And I will repeat it: Anybody here who is stupid enough to admit to pirating Civ3 should be banned. Period. I have no shame in saying it.

If that it would be this forum rule, then I would be a hypocrite

It isn't like I have to choose between buying an original game or a pirate copy, it's the choice between pirate copy and don't play it at all. Firaxis doesn't loose anything.

Things could be different for software like operating systems but not that much. In Romania is a pretty big effort to buy a good PC at 800-1000$ and if you would have to pay another 200-500$ for software (here Windows 98 is 180$) many would reconsider the option of buying a PC. It's sad but this is reality. The software company doesn't take this in consideration when they calculate their loses (like possible gain lost).

To understand this correctly think at this like that : 120$ national average wage - 100$ cost a one person decent living (no kids, no car, no trips, rent not included) = 20$/month savings. Now ceapest car is something over 3.000$, a single room flat is at least 6.500$. I hope you understand the idea.

I don't like the idea of stealing (in this case intelectual proprety) but in this case I consider that the owner doesn't actualy lose anything.

	28-09-2001 06:02									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger What's pirating? Making an illegal copy perhaps?

As far as I know, pirating is making illegal software
copies without the necessary approval from the copyright holder.
Real software "pirates" are those who run business with
illegal copies (selling and producing them).
If you make one copy of Civ II, then you're not a "pirate",
just an azz hole.

But it's true that Yin's subject might offend some of you.
But for me that's not a problem. Anyway, well done, Yin!

Real pirating (men with beards and swords) is something else,
if you didn't know.

	28-09-2001 08:19									#127
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Rasbelin: Thanks.

Listen, guys. I'm not here to start fights with the individual gamer who lacks money and so forth. However, even that is no good excuse really...but do what you got to do. Just don't admit it here on these forums otherwise people WILL want you banned.

I'm more targeting the organized piraters themselves who put this stuff up on the Net. They CAN be scared by threats to sue, etc., if Infogrames and Firaxis make it clear they will take our 'insider information' and track it down.

However, I am pretty sure they won't, so that just leaves me with how all this started: 'Please do NOT pirate Civ3!' Do everything you can to get a copy legally. That is all. And if you do get one illegally, don't come in here and make excuses for it, please.

Mind you, you are free to do so, but not to many people will be too sypathetic I don't think. Enough said from me, I guess. Unlesss somebody plans to attack me, of course.

	28-09-2001 11:10									#128
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by yin26 However, I am pretty sure they won't, so that just leaves me with how all this started: 'Please do NOT pirate Civ3!' Do everything you can to get a copy legally.

That was good, Yin! Shortly in a nutshell.

That's all for me on this subject.

	28-09-2001 14:13									#129
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Yes, I'm preaching because I am right and you are making lame excuses. This is true.

That just shows your arogance Yin.

You just put everyone in the same basket, and that is not right!

Anyway my point is that it is good for industry that the people who cannot get the game in their circumstances get it, since they will buy the games once they reach some by western standards 'normal' living. It depends on the morals of the people whether they will buy it or, and being so confrontational from you side surely doesn't help the cause.

Btw the point Do not pirate civ III is good and valid, but focus it on those people who do it on purpose to hurt the industry and the guys working there. Not on the ones who couldn't make a contribution anyway.

	28-09-2001 14:39									#130
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quote: focus it on those people who do it on purpose to hurt the industry and the guys working there

That is one point, and that's my main focus. However, even if you think you have a 'good' or 'justified' reason to play Civ3 illegally, I don't want to know about it on these boards. There is no good excuse in my book. However, it would be impossible to know unless you brag about it.

In the meantime, as you say, I AM focussed on the people who host the files.

	30-09-2001 05:00									#131
	Get a bigger avatar today!

did y'all notice that infrograms in taiwan is selling the limited edition for about $26 USD??? you're right, they aren't trying to BEND US OVER

	30-09-2001 09:47									#132
	Increase the size of your Attachments

K someone tell me what's wrong with pirating the game for now, then when the MP comes out i'll buy it.

	30-09-2001 11:00									#133
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How could you pirate anyway. I have surfed warez, and it's crap! First off, you get like 50 pop ups. And then you have to do a bunch of useless voting for a site. Then it won't even download. What's the point?

	30-09-2001 11:43									#134
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hi, i'm just a newbie here but i want to share some of my views on piracy.
hope everyone will bear with me for a moment.

1stly, i seem to get the idea from some of the postings that piracy only takes place on the warez sites, where u have to spend loads of time to d/l the software. in the region (SE asia) where i live, pirated software are burned onto cd-roms and packaged with jewel case and cover art it is definitely easier to pay a few dollars and get from the pirate shop than from warez sites. as such, piracy is very rampant here.

2ndly, i don't agree with pple who try to justify piracy with their economic contraints. if u want to pirate something, just do so and be quiet rather than trying to justify the act in the open.

3rdly, in the long-run, the game publisher must set various prices for different consumers living at places with different standards of living. the publisher cannot assume that everyone in the world has the same purchasing power. but i've yet to find a way to solve this problem without introducing price discrimination which will make it more expensive to those in richer countries, maybe that's why games are sold roughly the same price around the world: to avoid unfairness

to illustrate the above:


1. uniform price: 100,000 X $30 = $3000,000
asumming 50,000 copies lost to piracy in poorer countries

2. 2-price system:
for rich countries: 100,000 X $30 = $3000,000
for poorer countries: 50,000 X $5 = $250,000 (50,000 copies sold which will otherwise be lost to piracy)

in the 1st model, total revenue is $3million while the second model is $3.25million. thus, if the game publisher is able to match the price of pirated products in poorer areas, it can still recoup some revenue which will otherwise to be totally lost to piracy. but consumers in the US will certainly be unhappy that they're paying much more

	01-10-2001 01:45									#135
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jameson, I have heard it said that most true warez is exchanged on FTP servers. Websites are bunk.

	01-10-2001 02:17									#136
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Jamison How could you pirate anyway. I have surfed warez, and it's crap! First off, you get like 50 pop ups. And then you have to do a bunch of useless voting for a site. Then it won't even download. What's the point?

omfg lol WATCH OUT THE NEWBIE KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT WAREZ

	01-10-2001 10:40									#137
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quote: Originally posted by FuFu15 omfg lol WATCH OUT THE NEWBIE KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT WAREZ

That was alittle uncalled for I think. I never said I knew everything, I was just expressing my opinion. This is about the only board that I've been to, where the people treat you with disrespect right off. I don't understand where you get off treating me like that. I won't post here if I am disrespected.

	01-10-2001 11:22									#138
	Tired of ads?

Pay no attention to his post. I never even heard of the guy...so there goes his lame 'newbie' argument. And I agree that warez isn't easy unless you fiind the right place.