30-09-2001 16:55									#1
	Suggestions for implemantation of Renewable Energies Full PM-box? Change here!

Here are my suggestions for renewable and conventional energy sources in CIV3.

Coal mining: costs for maintenance are increasing by time (longer and deeper mines) from to 2 to 4 shields. After a 100 years of operation resource of coal mine is finished.
Use of energy generated by coal is generating 100 % pollution (25 % after the invention of air filters). Pollution is causing some amount of unhappiness. Earthquake kills some units of population (miners)
Building costs are 100 shields. Production is 25 per year. Lifetime of coalmine is 100 years. Lifetime of coal power plant 25 years. Recover from recycling: 7.

Hydropower:
Only possible near rivers and lakes: mountains 200 % energy production, but cost also 100 % more to built. Hills: 100% energy production, flat land: 50 % energy production, big rivers are doubling energy production. Due to climatic changes production of hydro power can vary (e.g. more rainfall: small rivers get to big rivers and double energy production, in dry periods big rivers get to small rivers, under extreme conditions desertification can make power production impossible, earthquakes can cause flooding within the surrounding, lower squares (1-2 squares for hydro power plants built in hilly regions, 2-4 squares for power plants build in mountain regions). Maintenance costs are 1 shield.
Building costs are 200 shields. Production is 25. Lifetime is 40 years. Recover from recycling: 25.

Wind:
Works best in coastal areas: 200% energy generation, deserts are generally calm (50%). Sole hills and single mountains give 200% power production. Valleys are bad (30 %). Regions a bit away from the poles produce 150% of power (“roaring forties”). Hills, wood, other wind turbines and close obstacles (next square) reduce power (70 %). Maintenance is 2, in stormy areas (e.g. mountains 3). Building costs are 50 shields, generation is 10. Earthquakes could lead to total destruction in 50% of the cases. Floods do not interfere. Wind generators bulked directly near town squares may cause some unhappiness (noise).
Lifetime is 15-20 years. Recover from recycling 7 shields.

SOLAR ENERGY: General:
Irradiated solar energy onto Earth is gradually increasing from 700 kWh/sqm per year in Polar Regions to 2200 kWh/sqm per year in regions close to the equator – this results in a triple energy production!

Solar thermal power plants:
Work best in sunny and warm places (deserts): Energy production is 70% from standard near the poles; near equator is 200%. Desert gives an additional increase of 20%. Humid areas produce 20% less.
Construction of plants in woods and valleys decreases power by 25 % due to shadowing. Building costs are 200 shields. Power generation is 25. Maintenance costs are 2 shields. Earthquake and flooding decrease power production by 50%. Lifetime is 25 years. Recover from recycling: 100.

Photovoltaics:
Energy production in Polar Regions is 70 % from standard; near equator is 200%. Deserts give a 10% minus (heat is decreasing the voltage of solar cells). Hills give a 10% plus (cooler, increases voltage). Mountains give a 20% in power production. Costs to build in mountain areas are double.
Construction of plants in woods and valleys decreases power by 25 % due to shadowing.
Maintenance costs are 1 shield. Building costs are 320 shields, after the invention of Thin Film Semiconductor Technology: 180 shields. Power generation is 25. Earthquakes and flooding do not harm (solar cells even work in space).
Lifetime is 30 years. Recover from recycling: 200, for Thin Film Technology: 100.

Nuclear:
Power generation is 25, works for 35 years, costs 180, maintenance is 3. Nuclear power causes unhappiness and may cause scandals, especially when a university town is close by. Possibility of accident. Vulnerable to military attack and earthquakes (radiation kills in 4 squares around). Nuclear waste has to be watched by a military unit for 12000 time units. One square is sufficient for 10 years of nuclear waste. The reactor itself has to be treated as a nuclear waste square after the end of its lifetime. Recover from recycling: -40 (reactor has to be sealed).

I tried to model it as realistic as possible, but in order keep it playable, we also could use infinite lifetime
for the power plants.

	01-10-2001 00:10									#2
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Hi Krauter.

I agree that bases of a way of establishing the energy system should be done, since energy is an important factor and could be cool without making the game that much more complicated.

One little comment: such ressources, as any other ressources, doesn't necessarily have fixed production and all. Sometime a good place may produce alot and some other time almost not. And it may produce less at the end I guess.



PS: In the List, I think the energy is talked about. If not in the List, I read it somewhere.
PPS: Krauter, seems that you are victim of the "long text" syndrome, where less people respond to long text

	01-10-2001 13:45									#3
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comments
that may right be for biomass and geothermal energy, but for solar and wind energy production does not decrease over time.
Also you can measure the wind and solar resource potential quite accurately, in oppostite to fossile fuels such as coal, gas and oil.

long text:
may be right, perhaps I should split up my ideas into
some small slices...

see also

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...d=500406&t=3608

	01-10-2001 21:14									#5
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I'm all for clean alternative energy sources but if I wanted to muck about with wind, tidal, biomass, natural gas and whatever other crap there is to generate power I'd be playing simcity !

In Civ2 environmentalism and power generation combined in simple ways to reduce pollution and increase productivty. I appreciate the time you put into your suggestion with coming up with all these numbers and possibilities, but I think you are too close to the Simcity level of micro-management and too far away from the Civilization macro-management......

and I'd rather not spent 5 minutes debating with myself whether to stick in a tidal or a power. I want the best, and i'd assume that the local citizens in the city would know what they want built. All I need to know is... how much pollution ? how much productivity ? and how long will it take to build ?

	01-10-2001 21:50									#6
	Yup: Macro rulez Support Apolyton

Well the feat is to be able to build a generalized enough macro ernergy system. First may be needed to look at all elements in their pretty divided form, but all this to be simplified after in a general form. As are political system in Civ. They may be simple and nicely generalized, they were at first discussed in their details.

I agree Civ isn't a SimCiv and I don't want a SimCiv.

	02-10-2001 01:09									#7
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Btw, I wasn't thinking that much at deciding everywhere to say "mm... in that place, should I build nuclear or solar?" but more at a general management where you put a % for exemple. Or to some "energy ressources" with some consequences to use them (pollution, as industries, and other consequences). Something like that.