03-10-2001 14:12									#1
	Trade: Caravans, Freights, Beakers and other stuff... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Trade.
One of the best part of the Civ II, it leaves me with some questions.
When I started to play to Civ, I used caravans (and freights later in the game) only to make money .
My question was: why do I need to build a caravan when my Civ was already pumping big amounts of money from marketplaces and banks? It was "amusing" delivering goods to your cities and other Civs, it helped to make some money and ...that's it (money money money ).
Why do i need to build "the camel" when, instead I could build a legion (and Kill kill kill !!!) or a settler?
Reading some posts in Apolyton answered partially to my question. (I know that caravans are one of the most powerful units of the game, even if I have to figure out how making it works properly).
I found a lot of threads written as"scientific" works on the issue and I tried to figure out the complete set of possibiities given by trade.
(I've also tried with the "search" function to look for other threads related but, I have to admit, since I'm lazy I've not had yet the time to go through deeply).
Does anybody have some time to spare the knowledge about "beakers" "demand" and all the other mechanics of trade in Civ, like the effects on science and discoveries?

	03-10-2001 17:26									#2
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I am not sure exactly what you want - but here goes ...

1. When you deliver a commodity caravan you get a one time bonus that is announced in the pop-up "Dye freight arrives at Rheims for 97g" - you are not told that you have also received the same bonus (97 in this example) in beakers! There is a capping mechanism that is not yet fully understood, but subject to this cap (believed by some to be two thirds of the outstanding number of beakers to achieve the next advance) those beakers are added to your civilizations research
2. You also get an on-going 'trade route' - this may seem totally inconsequential a mere 2 or 3 trade arrows, but with time and the financial improvements these few arrows can make an enormous difference to the power of your civilization - OCC players advocate getting three trade routes before any other priority regardless of demand or distance - just get the first three routes in
3. Food caravans can be used to rapidly grow key cities - particularly useful if you are not in a representative government and cannot utilise WL*D.
4. caravans of any type can be used to build Wonders and SS parts contributing 50 shields (400g) each

	03-10-2001 17:35									#3
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... I'm not sure what exacly I got...
So I've started with one question and the answer generated others (as usal).
Ok, let's start from the very beginning (I feel a little confused).
Arrows
For what I know arrows are generated from: working the surrounding squares + trade.
Beakers
here we are... I completely lost you... I guess the two things are strictly related... I've read of beakers on various threads but no one explained what exactly are they...

For the other questions I'll wait...

(please forgive me if my questions sound stupid and my English worse... )

	03-10-2001 18:09									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Messer Niccolò ... Arrows For what I know arrows are generated from: working the surrounding squares + trade.

Arrows are indeed generated from surrounding squares - roads and rivers, and trade specials. They are also generated when you complete a trade route to another city, usually something between 1 and 5 arrows per route, if you establish it early in the game.

These arrows are allocated to tax, research and luxuries, according to the percentages you set on the tax rate screen. The propotion allocated to research is shown via "beakers" - icons which look like chemistry equipment and are shown on the right hand side of your city info screen, beside the coin icons.

The beakers are also shown on the f6 science screen, which shows you what you have researched and are researching. The beakers are easy to see at the beginning of the game, when 10-20 beakers fill the bar to complete your research for Ceremonial Burial, for example.

The number of beakers required for each new scientific discovery goes up throughout the game, although other factors can reduce it (see the Great Library thread in the Strategy forum - "Gifting" is the name of the topic).

	03-10-2001 18:14									#5
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OK, let's see if we can clear this up.

Arrows are derived from the land, and are given by trade routes.

from there, they are divided by your tax rate into...

Gold represented by coins, or the @ symbol. goes into your treasury or used to pay support costs on buildings.

Beakers or science. represented by... little beakers. these apply toward your next discovery.

luxuries represented by little cups. these go toward keeping your people happy.

Naturally, you can adjust these in your tax rate.

Now, when delivering a Caravan, you get a certain amount of arrows added to the home city each turn (to be allocated in your tax rate). in addition, you ALSO get a one time GOLD bonus added to your treasury and a one time BEAKERS bonus added to your research. you can see the science bonus by checking your science advisor just before, and just after delivering the caravan. see how your research jumps.

Natch, you can stockpile caravans for wonder building. it's kind of nice when a wonder goes up in one turn

the science effect of the one time trade bonus has let many boost their science by keeping delivering caravans over and over again. especially useful when your science isn't good enough to give you one tech per turn.

sorry for the huge influx of stuff, messer, but you were kind of vague in your request

	03-10-2001 18:45									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Father Beast sorry for the huge influx of stuff, messer, but you were kind of vague in your request

Absolutely no need to apologize! This is exactly what I had in mind starting this thread, a lot of useful information!

Ok, once answered to the basic of trade, I go on with my questions ...

Food Caravans!
Once I finished my trade routes (which I just learnt to be of fundamental importance), the only option I'm left with is to create Food Caravans (unless some other tradable stuff pops up in the Citi Window Screen).
Do the caravans loaded with Food decrease the amount of food of the home city or do they work as the caravan used to Help to Build Wonder (with the food box instead of the production box)?

and more,

quote: Food caravans can be used to rapidly grow key cities - particularly useful if you are not in a representative government and cannot utilise WL*D.

WL*D ? (... ??? when the city celebrates?)

I know I know, I'm quite boring with my questions...

	03-10-2001 22:49									#7
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Yes, We Love The * Day in your city is when they celebrate your genius. It means that at least half the non-specialist (Elvis, taxman, Einstein) citizens in the city are happy (light blue) and none are unhappy (red). A celebrating city gains one extra arrow on each tile that produces one already. The big bonus is that the population increases by one if there is a surplus in your food production.

A delivered food caravan fill your foodbox halfway and moves one wheatsheaf from the source city to the destination city each turn until it expires. This, as you can surely see, leads to faster growth in the receiving city.

	04-10-2001 18:13									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq Yes, We Love The * Day in your city is when they celebrate your genius. It means that at least half the non-specialist (Elvis, taxman, Einstein) citizens in the city are happy (light blue) and none are unhappy (red). A celebrating city gains one extra arrow on each tile that produces one already. The big bonus is that the population increases by one if there is a surplus in your food production.

Urr... Not exactly all of that at once. "We Love The Leader (Consul, President, High Priest, Etc.) Day" has a different effect depending on your government. in Monarchy, Communism, or Fundamentalism, it adds the trade arrow you describe. in Republic Or Democracy, it gives you the +1 pop for every turn you keep it up, but not the arrows. In Despotism, the tile limiting restraints (every tile producing over 2 of something produces 1 less) are lifted, but not the added arrows or increased pop.

the way you achieve a "WLT*D" (the common short term) is dead on. Well, not quite. At least half your citizens total (including specialists) have to be happy. it also doesn't work until your city is at least size 3.

	04-10-2001 18:24									#9
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Well things seems a little bit more complex than I had expected...
But ok, I've got the point. Maybe I'll have to do some experiments by myself just to see which kind of results I obtain

I'll keep you informed of my progress