10-10-2001 19:33									#1
	Is Firaxis giving us unfinished game, or just old info Suffering from ads?

We were told that there would be a modern worker or engineer available in modern times. and then in the latest screenshot of the week, the supposedly "modern" screenshot, the selected unit is a plain old worker. This was posed to civ3,com 4 DAYS BEFORE GOING GOLD!!!

the question is, was that a really old screenshot they dole out to us in lieu of giving us real info, or is the game actually being sent out pretty incomplete?

	10-10-2001 21:30									#2
	Suffering from ads?

True, its a plain worker, but he is dressed differently. He looks like a lumberjack. It looks like their appearences will change throughout the ages.

	10-10-2001 22:15									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

More importantly, trying to trace which tiles were connected to which by those railways was making me dizzy

	10-10-2001 22:25									#4
	Probably old screen shots Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I remember reading the reviews of CIV II in the gaming magazines - just after it had been released. A large majority of the graphics i.e. units were changed once I actually got my filthy hands on the game... just my pennies worth

	10-10-2001 22:39									#5
	Re: Is Firaxis giving us unfinished game, or just old info Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Father Beast We were told that there would be a modern worker or engineer available in modern times. and then in the latest screenshot of the week, the supposedly "modern" screenshot, the selected unit is a plain old worker. This was posed to civ3,com 4 DAYS BEFORE GOING GOLD!!! the question is, was that a really old screenshot they dole out to us in lieu of giving us real info, or is the game actually being sent out pretty incomplete?

I don't understand the issue here. IIRC, someone asked me if workers would still be running around in a tunic in 1945, and I said no, they wouldn't.

Reference:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...ighlight=worker

I never said there would be engineers in Civ III, because there aren't and there never have been. Workers are workers are workers -- but obviously we don't expect modern workers to look like ancient ones. The same is true of armies and leaders.

The worker shown on this week's Screen of the Week is the modern worker, which is clearly different from the ancient/middle-ages worker.

Dan

	10-10-2001 23:31									#6
	Re: Re: Is Firaxis giving us unfinished game, or just old info Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS I don't understand the issue here. IIRC, someone asked me if workers would still be running around in a tunic in 1945, and I said no, they wouldn't. Reference: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...ighlight=worker I never said there would be engineers in Civ III, because there aren't and there never have been. Workers are workers are workers -- but obviously we don't expect modern workers to look like ancient ones. The same is true of armies and leaders. The worker shown on this week's Screen of the Week is the modern worker, which is clearly different from the ancient/middle-ages worker. Dan

ah, yes, your quote from that thread:

quote: : Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Workers are a perfect example, as you no longer get ancient-era workers running around in the industrial era -- they change to a more "modernized" worker. Dan

I may have guessed wrong on that point, because of this uncorrected assumption from serapisIV:

quote: Thank goodness, I was getting scared that the Engineer was being cut. I wouldn't be too thrilled seeing all my schoolwork go to waste because its no longer needed

it never occurred to us that there wouldn't be an engineer in civ3, since there had been in civ2, and no announcement that they had been cut. (hmmmnn..., got to make sure everyone hears). The engineer type abilities were available to AC formers also, but no terrain transformation abilities seem to be available to this worker.just the standard fortress, irrigation, plant forest, (rail)road, and make colony of it's ancient counterpart. I guess he just gets new clothes, huh? except of course for the rail and fortress techs.


In any case, prying info out of Firaxis on civ3 has been like pulling teeth. after being a rumour that you refused to admit to for a long time. when new screenshots are released, Dan the Man is often there to say those are old, I'm still not sure if we have a luxury slider (preview says there isn't, latest domestic advisor screenshot shows one) and the list goes on.

Dan, I have confidence that Civ3 will be the high point of my life this year, but getting good info on it is a hit and miss operation. that's where my vote is.

	10-10-2001 23:41									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

If the same worker who built my first road back in 4000BC is expected to build my first railway line, will he do it in that same time or take much longer? I mean without the engineer upgrade it could take forever to do modern tile improvement.

Unless there are no tile improvements beyond farms, mines, roads and railways, and they all take the same time.

More info please Dan.

David

	10-10-2001 23:49									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Aah.. more great news! Engineer is out!

It seems Firaxis has made just the right decisions, like no engineer, no spies/diplomats, no caravans/trucks and they have come with far better ideas. There really are other BETTER ideas to make worker work faster/better and so on, than just adding unnecessary engineer unit. Maybe a minor wonder which makes workers better, maybe some technology? So think a second before you whine about such a stupid thing as losing engineer unit.

It's great to see Firaxis has made really something new things/ideas to the game and not just more, more, more everything, but nothing really new like in Civ2.

GREAT WORK FIRAXIS!

PS. I'm so full of people whining about so stupid issues. Just wait 'till the game comes, play it and see how things work, THEN come to whine here if there's something to whine about.

	10-10-2001 23:52									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Crouchback If the same worker who built my first road back in 4000BC is expected to build my first railway line, will he do it in that same time or take much longer? I mean without the engineer upgrade it could take forever to do modern tile improvement. Unless there are no tile improvements beyond farms, mines, roads and railways, and they all take the same time. More info please Dan. David

THERE IS NO ENGINEER UPGRADE!!!!!!
Ancient workers=modern workers
except in different clothes.

Also, apparently armies & leaders change appearance.

	10-10-2001 23:55									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Crouchback More info please Dan. David

Don't hold your breath

	10-10-2001 23:58									#11
	Re: Re: Re: Is Firaxis giving us unfinished game, or just old info Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Father Beast In any case, prying info out of Firaxis on civ3 has been like pulling teeth. after being a rumour that you refused to admit to for a long time. when new screenshots are released, Dan the Man is often there to say those are old, I'm still not sure if we have a luxury slider (preview says there isn't, latest domestic advisor screenshot shows one) and the list goes on.

Just a couple of points about my patterns of communication here, because I want folks to know where I'm coming from.

First off, I've been repeating the mantra "those screenshots are old" for months now, until I'm blue in the face. This is the problem with people asking for screens nine months before a game ships. I can't control what magazines people scan pictures from and magnify and then scrutinize, I can only tell you what I know, which in this case was "those are old screens." As soon as I was able to put up new, official screens, I gladly did so.

Secondly, if I don't answer a question in a thread it's because I don't know the answer, or I'm not confident enough that I'm correct and I don't want to see my educated guess posted as a news item. The other possible reason is that I'm unable to answer a question for various reasons that are out of my control.

Third, there are so many threads here, that it's nearly impossible for me to know what people are misinformed about. Contrary to some folks' beliefs, I *do* have a pretty full workload, and I like to post here because I know you guys are huge fans, and when I'm not wearing a "game company employee" hat, I'm a fan of games just like you. So, I tend to post when I have time, and some weeks that means hardly ever, and sometimes I can spend a significant amount of time here. It all depends on what I have going on that week.

Dan

	10-10-2001 23:58									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: In any case, prying info out of Firaxis on civ3 has been like pulling teeth.

You act as if he OWE'S it to you.

	11-10-2001 00:02									#13
	Support Apolyton

Anorak talk over a cup of coffee...

	11-10-2001 00:09									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Earthling7 Anorak talk over a cup of coffee...

Hey, mine's a pint mate. But thanks for telling us what you can Dan, you know we just get a little carried away is all.

David

	11-10-2001 00:27									#15
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Firaxis giving us unfinished game, or just old info Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Contrary to some folks' beliefs, I *do* have a pretty full workload....

Dan, I hope you know I was kidding in my "Day in the Life" thread. I was reflecting more what Apolytoners probably feel you are doing as we sit waiting for screens/updates/posts/etc. from you. I work in software development, and I know how busy you must be, and therefore I am extremely appreciative of every second you spare to give us whatever information you can.

Thanks!

	11-10-2001 00:41									#16
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Firaxis giving us unfinished game, or just old info Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Stuie Dan, I hope you know I was kidding in my "Day in the Life" thread. I was reflecting more what Apolytoners probably feel you are doing as we sit waiting for screens/updates/posts/etc. from you. I work in software development, and I know how busy you must be, and therefore I am extremely appreciative of every second you spare to give us whatever information you can. Thanks!

Stuie,

No worries, I wouldn't have replied to that thread had I thought you were serious

Dan

	11-10-2001 01:31									#17
	did he answer? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yeah, but is there a luxury slider? I'm buying the game either way, I'm just trying to pre map my strategies.

Pardon for all your worries Dan, it's just that with al the conflicting information, it seems that a lot of us won't believe ANYTHING until we actually possess the game. does it have MP or not? I guess that was up in the air up until Gold Day. We do appreciate what dregs of info you give us, we are just frustrated at the plethora of non answers. We are so eager to actually play the game and satisfy our curiousity on all these unknown matters that we jump and theorize on the least scraps you give us.

ah well, 3 weeks to go!!!!!

good gosh, I'm starting to sound like Yin. ugh.

Last edited by Father Beast on 11-10-2001 at 01:39

	11-10-2001 01:44									#18
	Re: did he answer? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Father Beast Yeah, but is there a luxury slider? I'm buying the game either way, I'm just trying to pre map my strategies. Pardon for all your worries Dan, it's just that with al the conflicting information, it seems that a lot of us won't believe ANYTHING until we actually possess the game. does it have MP or not? I guess that was up in the air up until Gold Day. We do appreciate what dregs of info you give us, we are just frustrated at the plethora of non answers. We are so eager to actually play the game and satisfy our curiousity on all these unknown matters that we jump and theorize on the least scraps you give us. ah well, 3 weeks to go!!!!! good gosh, I'm starting to sound like Yin. ugh.

Didn't realize that question was still outstanding. Yes, you have a luxury slider as well as a research slider. I think at one point the luxury slider had been taken out, which is why it didn't appear in some screenshots, but I can't remember. In any case, you definitely do have a luxury slider.


Dan

	11-10-2001 02:35									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

no mp seee other tthread

	11-10-2001 03:10									#20
	Re: Re: did he answer? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Didn't realize that question was still outstanding. Yes, you have a luxury slider as well as a research slider. I think at one point the luxury slider had been taken out, which is why it didn't appear in some screenshots, but I can't remember. In any case, you definitely do have a luxury slider. Dan

This is v. good.

Anyway, Dan, we always appreciate when you talk to us and fully appreciate the workload you have.

	11-10-2001 03:50									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I wouldn't be as nice as Dan has been if I were in his place. Stupid questions, stupid complaints, endless "hey-Dan-answer-this-and-that" threads,... You know he isn't contractually obligated to come here and share info, and again, if I were in his place, I would definitely consider stop replying to a few people.
Some of you are really making me sick. Learn some manners.

Thanks again Dan


btw, the fact that the "engineer" unit is no longer around doesn't mean a worker in BC will perform exactly as a worker in AD. New techs will definitely bring added functions to the modern worker unit. I totally support this change, I'm sure it's for the best.

	11-10-2001 03:54									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: I can't control what magazines people scan pictures from

I'd like to repeat my suggestion from long ago: Please put a date stamp on ALL the images you release to magazines and on-line sites. I think ES has begun to do this recently as well.

Very simple and very helpful for everybody.

	11-10-2001 04:25									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by yin26 I think ES has begun to do this recently as well.

What's ES?

	11-10-2001 05:01									#24
	Support Apolyton

Ah, sorry: Ensemble Studios...of Bruce Shelley fame. They REALLY know how to run things like unique units, artwork, testing, interaction with the public, etc. And I've noticed lately their screens have date stamps on them, too.

Of course, if you played Age of Kings, you'd know it took a while to get the Town Center patch available, but they continue to do amazing work. Age of Mythology looks to be simply outstanding.

	11-10-2001 05:05									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

there's no MP, so the game is unfinished

	11-10-2001 06:17									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I for one want to thank Dan for his efforts. I have been very impressed with his dedication to the fans on this site. I mean it's not as if he is paid to come here and answer everyone's questions.
I'm sure there are a lot of companies that could care less about having someone come to a fansite and answer questions. They would just say wait till the game is out.

Thanks. And take a break Dan you deserve it!