10-10-2001 23:39									#1
	Official: no Engineers in Civ3!! Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

check this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...6500#post523284

Dan Magaha said it himself:

quote: I never said there would be engineers in Civ III, because there aren't and there never have been. Workers are workers are workers -- but obviously we don't expect modern workers to look like ancient ones. The same is true of armies and leaders.

By all the evidence, that means no transforming terrain, one of my favorite things to do in civ2 was to make all my land into airbased hills.

I suppose the possibility exists that techs will unlock terraforming powers, as in AC, but I somehow doubt it.

and the end of a guaranteed civ2 grin - "Leonardo's Workshop upgrades all Settlers to Engineers"

	11-10-2001 00:01									#2
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So how will terrain be improved?

By some automated system?

That blows

Automation =

	11-10-2001 00:05									#3
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quote: Originally posted by drake So how will terrain be improved? By some automated system? That blows Automation =

Workers, all throughout the game.

	11-10-2001 00:17									#4
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I only play the stock civ games. Havent ventured into the realm of AC or CTP.

How do these workers actually work?

And does anyone actually prefer this sort of system over engineers?

I think automated anything sucks. It takes away a lot IMO.

	11-10-2001 00:21									#5
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From what I understand, these workers are just like the old settler or engineer. They can make terrain improvements, but they cannot build new cities. They can also found colonies so you can claim resources. The settler unit is now used solely for founding new cities.

	11-10-2001 00:24									#6
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So are these workers created by shields like an engineer would be, or do they just come with the city?

I'll give it a try, but I doubt I'll like it as much as the actual engineer units.

	11-10-2001 00:29									#7
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Naa, i think will be advanced workers (aka engineers) indeed.

	11-10-2001 00:29									#8
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Yea their produced just like the old engineer. Shields and one population point. I think the new system looks promising, and it's supposed to combat ICS since settlers now cost 2 population points.

	11-10-2001 00:36									#9
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That doesnt sound so bad

It'd be great to elminate ICS.....such an un-refined way of playing </civ snob mode>

	11-10-2001 00:44									#10
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If we're using the same workers throughout, they just get a change of clothes, how long will it take to make tile improvements late on in the game? That's what engineers gave, faster improvement speeds as modern mines, railways and such like, became harder and more time consuming to make.

David

	11-10-2001 00:46									#11
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So they're not called engineers anymore? So what? They're workers and do exactly the same as the older engineers did. Dan has stated that they change through the ages. What is unclear?

	11-10-2001 02:01									#12
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quote: What is unclear?

How many sprites do we have to make for each unit?? One per age?

	11-10-2001 02:16									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat How many sprites do we have to make for each unit?? One per age?

maybe it's optional, one ancient sprite for each unit, called unit_ancient, that one will be used in ancient times (duh)
and a sprite called unit_modern, that one will be used in modern times, and if there isn't a unit_modern sprite, than the ancient one is used.
well....maybe, maybe not

	11-10-2001 02:43									#14
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quote: Originally posted by SteveJH From what I understand, these workers are just like the old settler or engineer. They can make terrain improvements, but they cannot build new cities. They can also found colonies so you can claim resources. The settler unit is now used solely for founding new cities.

You've got it.

Well I presume the thing is that there will only be one unit throughout the game (the worker, that changes appearance of course), but there will be no significant ramp up of the cost of terrain improvements later on in the game to compensate. Net effect is that it makes no difference. This is like how civ1 used to function...anyway, by later in the game you will have a large force of workers so you will be able to get jobs done far quicker by very virtue of this...

	11-10-2001 03:41									#15
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i suspect there will be advance allowing workers to terraform...

	11-10-2001 03:45									#16
	Re: Official: no Engineers in Civ3!! Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Father Beast By all the evidence, that means no transforming terrain, one of my favorite things to do in civ2 was to make all my land into airbased hills.

Umm, why wouldn't they be able to terraform, they (supposedly) do all terraforming/land improvements as it is, while settlers simply make cities.

I don't think there should be a problem with having additional abilities added as technology is developed, this is how it was in SMAC and also CtP. This is a good idea.

Workers are engineers are workers, they are the same, only look differently.

	11-10-2001 03:50									#17
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quote: Originally posted by jdd2007 i suspect there will be advance allowing workers to terraform...

Absolutely. If you remember in SMAC, the advanced terraforming functions (raise/lower terrain, thermal borehole, etc) came about as a result of an advance (Ecological Engineering) rather than the ability of some new unit. So these things are probably still in there, but become available with an advance, not just an ability of a new unit.

	11-10-2001 04:39									#18
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But in SMAC, as you progressed, your could make more efficient, faster formers for a smaller cost. The 2 movement points and doubled speed of the engineer is also very important. And I really hope that advanced irrigation will be included, as it was in civ 2. I know some people consider this extra work, but I always enjoyed the transformation and increased population.

	11-10-2001 04:51									#19
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quote: Originally posted by jdd2007 i suspect there will be advance allowing workers to terraform...

and build underwater tunnels, that would be cool.

	11-10-2001 04:55									#20
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It is a pain having to replace your settlers with engineers once you discover engineering. As others have stated it is easy enough to make advancements that decrease the time of building mines/roads etc and enable/disable transformation. We'll see once the game is out I suppose.

	11-10-2001 05:01									#21
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The only thing I'm really going to miss is the two movement points on the engineer, this could be really handy at times.

	11-10-2001 08:36									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Absolutely. If you remember in SMAC, the advanced terraforming functions (raise/lower terrain, thermal borehole, etc) came about as a result of an advance ...

This is true in Civ2 as well. Fortifications, railroads, farmlands, airbases - all sorts of upgrades were based on the tech level attained, not the unit (settler/engineer). I'm sure the worker units abilities will improve as the game progresses. Perhaps the speed at which workers perform their tasks will improve as well.

	11-10-2001 09:18									#23
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quote: Originally posted by SteveJH The only thing I'm really going to miss is the two movement points on the engineer, this could be really handy at times.

I know I am going to miss their little lab coats, clipboards, and hats.

	11-10-2001 10:28									#24
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if there ain't no engineer equivalent worker units in Civ3, guess what I'm going to be doing once I find out how to add custom units....

wherever my tanks want to roll, my engineers build the way....

	11-10-2001 10:50									#25
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I guess I'm in the minority, but I hope terraforming is out, or at least implemented in a very different way in Civ 3. I mean, how are a bunch of engineers going to turn the Himalayas into grasslands?! It's just ridiculous. And you can't turn desert into grassland either -- you can make it productive with irrigation, but it's still desert. So I hope there will be increases in agricultural productivity as knowledge advances, but not so much terraforming, at least until you discover "weather control" or some other future tech.

	11-10-2001 12:49									#26
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Terraforming is in; but how and to what extent I don't know.

And who ever cared about engineers anyhow? They were just glorified Settlers in CivII. Workers are way better.