17-10-2001 21:58									#31
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IIRC in the US Senate, if the vote is tie the vice president's vote makes the call or something like that (?!)

Anyways, I think that a tie should be resolved by the Planetary Governor's vote which in this case would be...

Maybe we should have a vote about it

	17-10-2001 23:29									#32
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... Apologies, I think I'll be unable to post until Sunday

Sprayber, sorry about hte mistype...

Anyways, the Free Drone's vote may decide the issue

	17-10-2001 23:40									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud ... Apologies, I think I'll be unable to post until Sunday Sprayber, sorry about hte mistype... Anyways, the Free Drone's vote may decide the issue

No biggie. I just like giving people a hard time.

I got the same outcome that Argonaut did. That is taking into account the Gaians, Drones and Cyborgs all voting for Roze. Which means the two that abstained would have made the difference since neither would have voted for Santiago. The cults votes alone would make the difference.

As it stands
Santiago- 34
Roze-33

If you add +1 to the cyborgs for having the extra SP then it's 34-34. Unless you also give the Hive +1 for the planetneck then its 35-34.

Guardian: I wondered if you would catch that or not.

	17-10-2001 23:42									#34
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quote: Originally posted by kassiopeia IIRC in the US Senate, if the vote is tie the vice president's vote makes the call or something like that (?!) Anyways, I think that a tie should be resolved by the Planetary Governor's vote which in this case would be... Maybe we should have a vote about it

I agree 100% with my ally on this. This is truely the only fair way to handle it.

	17-10-2001 23:49									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. President OK Guardian, I'll level with you. I'm not exactly sure what Morgan is going to do. I know I've made it seem like he's trying to pick a fight with Svensgaard and everyone else. I don't think I'm capable of fighting a real war, though. And as long as I'm here, I thought I might share something I heard about hybrid aircraft. I heard that the US Marines are now using a plane called the Osprey which has large propellors on its wings which can shift into a vertical position so it can fly like a helicopter. They think that the future of combat aircraft is in rotary propulsion. How is this related to the Chronicle? It's not, not directly anyway. But when we get back to the military end of the stick, the general idea might be worth thinking about. Since our version of Chiron seems to be so huge, you might have to hybridize aircraft, particularly helicopters, just to cover the enormous distances.

Its been awhile since they had those, just that they started using them more often.Combat aircraft rotary?? sure, when we run out of petrolum for Jet engines. anyway, will only be a support role and the Osprey is a transport plane to drop off supplies, troops, etc...

In SMAC, helicopters are powered by Fission Reactors... don't need gas to power a rotary engine. So with Fission Reactor, Helicopters already have a good range :P

The Nautilus Pirates only use two types of helicopters...

The Armoured Personel Chopper which is use to transport personel and one can easily land on the main deck of a Pirate Cruiser/Destroyer. They are also used for support and transporting marines... not much in weaponry, but it armoured.

The Patrol Chopper... use to Patrol an area around a base/outpost... use as support and defence of bases, ships, etc.... used for search-and-rescue... capable to carry anti-ship missiles and carry a small squad of marines.

Anyway, can have a Osprey like Chopper, just don't go overboard :P it is future tech, not modern.

-LMP

	17-10-2001 23:53									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I agree 100% with my ally on this. This is truely the only fair way to handle it.

We have agreement! Shall we proceed?

Actually, in the game this could produce an unwanted situation where people refuse to admit the power of the council

Question for those who have played CC before; has the election ever been as complex and thight and disputed as this time?

And we really really need to get in touch with Bearcat! Where are you... I think that Santiago has a most good proposal for you.

	18-10-2001 00:10									#37
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The Cult of Planet actually has 4 votes because they have the second Human Genome Project which i remember Cyber mentioning and remember the player before that who controlled the Cult wanted the Cult to have.


The Cyborgs can have their Citizen's Defence Force, bringing their total votes by one

As for the planetneck... neither the Hive or the Pks control it because the border is there. Also, the long water neck almost seperating the eastern continent could also be known as the Planetneck. anyway, doesn't give any bonuses, so it doesn't count as a vote

Spartans does control a Landmark as Sparta Command is located in the middle of that flat mountain (temporally forgot the name).

The Pirates controls the Geothermal Bubbles in Unity Sea and partly controls the Fossile Field Ridge along with the Peacekeepers...being mined by both factions with Mining Platforms and Supply Foils/Cruisers.

All factions have a landmark i think.

-LMP

	18-10-2001 00:21									#38
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The Planetary Governor cannot veto or choose who wins as that would be giving the PG WAY to much power.... I think a lot of people have WAY to much power :P bad enough the PG can veto votes on somethings like GLobal Trade agreement, solar shades (dry up the oceans, less space for the pirates :P)

Darn Canadian government have the power to give themselves a payraise without any input from the people of the country.... thats to much power to those fat arses politicians.... and the ethics of democracy be damn to them.


-LMP

	18-10-2001 06:26									#39
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The rule which makes the most sense to me is that if no agreement can be reached on who will be the next planetary governor, then the new one continues on in his place.

	18-10-2001 07:11									#40
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I think that with two abstaining votes, it should come down to between those two. Leave it in the hands of the UN and Cult I say.

What! If the other side can propose a biased resolution, so can I!

Wasn't one of the suggestions in Florida to make them vote again, regarding misleading ballots or lost ballots or something? What about a re-vote? Not that I'm suggesting that for any particular reason or anything....

Oh and Guardian....sure, now you tell us! You were so busy being high and mighty that you forgot to mention it!

	18-10-2001 08:28									#41
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When I get home from eating with my friends and girlfriend I will propose a alternative. Of course I will have an offer for Domai, Aki and Dee if they listen. But I guess I should wait until it officially becomes a tie to announce Sparta's proposal. It won't be a revote, it won't be to let the cult and UN decide. It will shock some, make some foam at the mouth and surprise all. But it will be a fair offer and one that will make the former Chiron Alliance look bad if they try and force the issue.

Question: Has it been resolved yet who will vote for those factions? Cause that makes a lot of difference regarding the offers that I want to make. At least two of the three offers will be generous by Spartan standards and one will be only a token. But I need to know who will be playing them. Santiago wants to do business cause she has grown attached to the idea of being PG.

	18-10-2001 12:24									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Argonaut Oh and Guardian....sure, now you tell us! You were so busy being high and mighty that you forgot to mention it!

Well, if you'd paid a little more attention and understood us a little better, you would have known it all along...

Lal never said no to the idea of voting for Roze if he himself did not stand a chance.
He just wasn't willing to give up without even trying, that's all.

With the way things turned out (pretty much exactly as Roze predicted), the Peacekeepers would have been backing Roze to the hilt if we hadn't had that nasty falling out over it.

As matters stand right now, we're not even sure if Roze is better than Santiago at all.

	18-10-2001 23:34									#43
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Okay, i got the internet at home now, High Speed this time i was able to check ICQ where i received a message from Bearcat... he is not playing anymore and hasn't given any reason.
So for now, I will temporally sort of control the Free Drones base on obviousness... For getting the Free drones to vote the Santiego, the proposal as to be VERY big and good.

As for the Gaians and Cyborgs, SMAC Fanatic play one and temporally control the other until another player or Alyzia comes back.


there is this other thing about Units which i would to confirm before redoing the Pirates units in Admin...

everyone okay with...

10-12 Rovers Squadron/Platoon units, (30 to 60 people)
100-500 Infantry Battalion Units,
10-12 Choppers Squadron/Platoon Units, (10 to 24 people)
10-12 Needlejet Squadrons, (10 to 24 people)
Single naval ship units? (Foil: 10 to 50 people Cruiser: 50 to 300 people)

So in centauri dawn, the total units the Spartans would have to attack UN HQ... 2 Synthsteel Infantry Units, 1 Elite Plasmasteel Infantry, 1-2 Scout/Laser Rover Units

As for the Zone of Control.... it is a bit unrealistic, especially for 2000 square kilometres squares. Besides, the Zone of Control thing was ignored before in Chiron Chronicles. And no Single Unit can properly control an entire Square.

	19-10-2001 00:45									#44
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I can handle that...

I have the week off, so I can use that to get up to speed on everything since I left.

	19-10-2001 01:15									#45
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I think, that we should allow Santiago to make her proposal, because frankly I'm curious - Sprayber used such words to describe it that I'm very interested in knowing what will come out

And if we can not reach a common agreement, I think that the CEO should retain his position. I think that in the game it is resolved like that. Fair enough...

	19-10-2001 11:57									#46
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Heh... well, since Argo hasn't said anything, I just couldn't resist the urge to answer myself...

quote: Originally posted by Guardian Well, if you'd paid a little more attention and understood us a little better, you would have known it all along...

-And I guess you could say something along those exact same lines and throw it right back at me...
In other words: What we have here is a failure to communicate properly...

quote: Lal never said no to the idea of voting for Roze if he himself did not stand a chance. He just wasn't willing to give up without even trying, that's all.

-And I guess he could have been clearer about that... probably would have been if things hadn't gone sour. Thing is, Lal was somewhat taken aback and kind of got the impression Roze was basically telling him to get the @£$€?! out of her way... so, instead of actually discussing the matter at hand, Lal ended up acting kind of defensively, Roze got upset and pushed harder, they kept misinterpreting each other, and it all went to hell on a mag tube...

quote: With the way things turned out (pretty much exactly as Roze predicted), the Peacekeepers would have been backing Roze to the hilt if we hadn't had that nasty falling out over it. As matters stand right now, we're not even sure if Roze is better than Santiago at all.

Sorry, but that's how it is at the moment...

	20-10-2001 07:12									#47
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I will be voting for the Free Drones... SMAC Fanatic can vote for the Gaians and the Cyborgs.

I receive email from Alynzia that she won't be coming back.

If we get a tie in votes, the CEO retains as PG until the Council smarts up and make their mind up.

-LMP

	20-10-2001 22:37									#48
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Hey give us a little credit Gaurdian! We haven't slaughtered thousands of your civillians in two brutal wars!

Your just lucky Roze didn't hear that. She'd be pretty pissed,

	20-10-2001 23:49									#49
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quote: Originally posted by kassiopeia We have agreement! Shall we proceed? Actually, in the game this could produce an unwanted situation where people refuse to admit the power of the council Question for those who have played CC before; has the election ever been as complex and thight and disputed as this time?

No, it has never been as complicated and contested as this

----
LMP- I think your infantry # of units is FAR to bloated. 40-80 would be a good number. (Examples: University only has 30) Pirates probably have more, but 100-500... !!!!!!

---
We do not have to worry about Morgan voting- The Free Drones' vote will decide the contest unless they abstain

----
Hmm... The Gaians and Free Drones... Well, I suppose Roze will win. Zakharov won't be happy about that, but he won't be too angered with Roze...

---
Oh yes, and if there is a tie in the future... What happens is the faction leaders co-govern...

	20-10-2001 23:51									#50
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SMAC fanatic- welcome back... however, please do not do too much with planetmind- the game has unanimously decided that planetimind will not play a big role in the game--- however, since you are the gaians, you may use planetmind to obtain mindworms.

I am not sure if you are allowed to implore planetmind to use mindworms to attack other factions however... My decision is no... but what do you and LMP think? The reason I say so, is that doing so will technically give you control of planetmind and the gaians...

Oh well, welcome back and thank you for writing

	21-10-2001 00:32									#51
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EDIT: Whoops, gotta read council thread more carefully. Wait...

Last edited by Kassiopeia on 21-10-2001 at 00:48

	21-10-2001 20:11									#52
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud SMAC fanatic- welcome back... however, please do not do too much with planetmind- the game has unanimously decided that planetimind will not play a big role in the game--- however, since you are the gaians, you may use planetmind to obtain mindworms. I am not sure if you are allowed to implore planetmind to use mindworms to attack other factions however... My decision is no... but what do you and LMP think? The reason I say so, is that doing so will technically give you control of planetmind and the gaians... Oh well, welcome back and thank you for writing

I don't intend to use Planetmind against any other factions. All I was attempting to do was to bolster the Gaian military, since they don't have a very big conventional one and need more native lifeforms to help them along a bit.

	21-10-2001 23:00									#53
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*looks at PC thread*

Sprayber, as soon as those transports get to Mt. Planet, it's time for a slight strategic discussion!
To tell you the truth, the Spartan requests of colonizing the area went to deaf ears.
*slaps himself*

	21-10-2001 23:47									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Argonaut Hey give us a little credit Gaurdian! We haven't slaughtered thousands of your civillians in two brutal wars!

No, but you have made it perfectly clear that you won't raise a finger to help our civilians next time somebody comes around seeking to slaughter them...

As far as we're concerned, those who won't oppose an atrocity are in fact no better than those who commit it.

quote: Your just lucky Roze didn't hear that. She'd be pretty pissed,

Oh really?

See if I care...

	22-10-2001 01:27									#55
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quote: Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic I don't intend to use Planetmind against any other factions. All I was attempting to do was to bolster the Gaian military, since they don't have a very big conventional one and need more native lifeforms to help them along a bit.

That is all right- I just wanted to make sure you understood all the rules that had been made in your absence.

	22-10-2001 01:36									#56
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We never said we wouldn't oppose an attrocity. We're just not coming running with guns the next time Braddock shoots his mouth off and some army comes looking for him

	22-10-2001 01:51									#57
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Oh, and if anyone opposes the Cyborg/Data Angel colonisation of the next-to-Mount-Planet area, please say. If there's a majority of you, we can always have the transport destroyed by a wild IoD or the pods destroyed by mindworms.

	22-10-2001 02:53									#58
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quote: Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic Oh, and if anyone opposes the Cyborg/Data Angel colonisation of the next-to-Mount-Planet area, please say. If there's a majority of you, we can always have the transport destroyed by a wild IoD or the pods destroyed by mindworms.

Well, officially the Spartans have already spoken out against colonization in that area. But from my personal standpoint, i don't mind. Wasn't that going to be the area where the aliens would eventually land. You won't get any argument from Sprayber, but Santiago and company will certainly be very angered by it. The Spartans have tried to advise the Believers to send colony pods that way to claim it. :hint: :hint:

	22-10-2001 06:21									#59
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quote: Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic I don't intend to use Planetmind against any other factions. All I was attempting to do was to bolster the Gaian military, since they don't have a very big conventional one and need more native lifeforms to help them along a bit.

Do note SMAC that the Gaians as built up a force of 10 rover units ment for the Second Spartan War. Of course, they didn't see any action...just garrisoning and patrolling around Blast Rifle Crag... but it was the Gaians first time of sending a force overseas and the biggest conventional force build up. They either disband some units or kept them. I would think they kept that force to defend their gaian-cult border... just incase the Believers break through and charges Gaia.

So i guess that the Gaians have about 10-15 Conventional Offensive Units.


Does anyone know how many troops in a typical infantry Battalion in this world? I guess 100 to 500. I can see the Russians having a bigger Battalion unit then the United States :P

oh, talking about Russians... Darkcloud, University ain't completly populated by Russians :P so don't name all of your characters with russian last names :P

-LMP

	22-10-2001 06:36									#60
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quote: Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic Oh, and if anyone opposes the Cyborg/Data Angel colonisation of the next-to-Mount-Planet area, please say. If there's a majority of you, we can always have the transport destroyed by a wild IoD or the pods destroyed by mindworms.

Just to say, the Nautilus Pirates controls some Mines in the landmass west of Mount Planet, connected by a chokepoint. The story of that is simple, the nearby Pirate bases wnated to explore Mount Planet and so n started from the west. So they sent exploration teams, and during their exploration, they found some Unity Pods. One of them as been activated somehow as mining robots have started some mines. The exploration teams used some building resources from some other unity pods and started a mining operation, with the help of a former unit from Nessus Base. So the explorers started up a mining company and started selling their minerals via their sponsoring base. Svensgaard eventually discovered of the operation when he noticed a increase in mineral production at the bases there. Didn't give heck to anyone, just advise the people of the Company that they should of told the Government, so they could guerantee their safety. SO they establish a small Defence outpost along the Mining Outpost. So far, no factions have noticed. So one reason why Svensgaard would be against having SPartans at Mount Planet