26-10-2001 22:58									#91
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Surely we can't end up with Morgan being governor again - he didn't even stand for election this time round!

	26-10-2001 23:49									#92
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, no, but he already is Planetary Governor, so if the Council fails to elect a new one...

quote: Guardian, if there is rules in the charter about voting... what are they? Can the Cult and possibly the Peacekeepers change their vote? especially before the voting is officially over.

Well, the Charter doesn't really say anything about that. It basically just states that each member has one vote, you need so and so many votes to make this or that kind of decision and if you're a party to a dispute you have to abstain from voting. Hence, when I said DarkCloud was right, I just meant that the Charter does mention voting (which i suggested it did not).

However, it does say that "important decisions" in the General Assembly (such as electing members for the Security Council) require support by a "two-thirds majority of the members present and voting ". So, if you're not present, you don't count and if you abstain from voting, you don't count.

It seems to me requiring a two-third majority on elections for Planetary Governor would make it virtually impossible to ever elect another one, so perhaps that's not such a great idea.

The "if you abstain, you're out" rule, however, does seem fair enough. You had a chance to vote and you chose not to. -And without those votes the remaining members of the council can not make a decision even if it only requires a simple majority... So, as far as I can tell, either the whole thing is off or we start from scratch and do it all over again...

	27-10-2001 00:53									#93
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Sparta may be interested in some form of alliance with the Usurpers. Depending on the sitution of their landing.

So would the Believers, except that then they would have to face their enemies closer by. Most troubling situation, but the Election is the situation at hand.

I say, Morgan to governor. IIRC Roze would not like that, but hey, he got the 2190 vote behind him.

	27-10-2001 01:15									#94
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Kass: I think that Sparta would want to ally with one of the alien factions, depending on where they land and who they interact with.

Guardian: empty your message box.

	27-10-2001 01:35									#95
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Guardian: empty your message box.

Ughf...

Well, that's what happens when you don't delete or move them...

It's been taken care of.

	27-10-2001 17:43									#96
	Hmmmm.... Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

See what you think of this...

Don't know if this is relevant or not, but on the copy of the CC map which I have (warning: may be outdated), the Believers don't have any seabases in the Freshwater Sea.

Arguments for their control:
No other faction has prospective access to the Sea. The Believers have the only ocean access and have the Sea completely surrounded with land bases.

Arguments against their control:
The greatest part of the Sea is actually not under their control by the rules of SMAX. (In fact, under the rules of SMAC, none of it at all is under their control according to my map.)


I also want to quibble about the population allocations. I think it's a bit unfair to give the Spartans twice as many pop votes as the Gaians when (again, only according to my copy of the CC map) they have roughly the same number of bases as the Gaians. The Gaians may be running Green, which will retard their growth, but they are also running Demo.
Also, the Data Angels have fewer pop votes than the Spartans, despite having a lot of seabases. Again, according to my map, it seems that the Angels have more bases than the Spartans. Sure, the Spartan bases may be bigger, but
a) they're in the Upland Wastes, not exactly the best place for nutrients
b) can they really be so big as to outnumber the Data Angel numerical superiority?

Go on then, one more...
Do the PKs really get a vote for control of the Great Dunes? It's more a hindrance than a help...

I know I'm going to get shouted down, so someone please go ahead and tell me that the map's obsolete and I'll've done this all for nothing...

	28-10-2001 00:04									#97
	Re: Hmmmm.... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic See what you think of this... Don't know if this is relevant or not, but on the copy of the CC map which I have (warning: may be outdated), the Believers don't have any seabases in the Freshwater Sea. Arguments for their control: No other faction has prospective access to the Sea. The Believers have the only ocean access and have the Sea completely surrounded with land bases. Arguments against their control: The greatest part of the Sea is actually not under their control by the rules of SMAX. (In fact, under the rules of SMAC, none of it at all is under their control according to my map.)

They have Ground Bases all around the Freshwater Sea and currently, their the only ones who have access to it. Perfect place to build up navy and then transfer it via Canals.

quote: I also want to quibble about the population allocations. I think it's a bit unfair to give the Spartans twice as many pop votes as the Gaians when (again, only according to my copy of the CC map) they have roughly the same number of bases as the Gaians. The Gaians may be running Green, which will retard their growth, but they are also running Demo. Also, the Data Angels have fewer pop votes than the Spartans, despite having a lot of seabases. Again, according to my map, it seems that the Angels have more bases than the Spartans. Sure, the Spartan bases may be bigger, but a) they're in the Upland Wastes, not exactly the best place for nutrients b) can they really be so big as to outnumber the Data Angel numerical superiority?

Data Angels populace is spread thin among their Seabases i would think and the Data Angels are a faction that broke off from another... where the Spartans are not. Spartans peoplemore into breeding... well, they do need troops :P

EDIT: Oh and the Gaians do have fungus throughout their territory, but not as much as the Cult thought :P Where the Spartans erradicated their fungus.... so more breathing space for the Spartans and not all of the Spartan Bases are in the Upland Wastes... only the northern part.

quote: Go on then, one more... Do the PKs really get a vote for control of the Great Dunes? It's more a hindrance than a help... I know I'm going to get shouted down, so someone please go ahead and tell me that the map's obsolete and I'll've done this all for nothing...

Great Dunes is a Hot desert, no? Perfect place to acquire Energy, especially with solar collectors. In the game, they can easily be irragated and place some mines...not the biggest minerals, but still can get some deep under a desert.

Thanks for your concerns, but the stats are been done and changing them, especially during a election, is not a good idea

Your just trying to give the Gaians more votes are you

-LMP

	28-10-2001 00:13									#98
	Inflate your Upload Space

Factions will still need to research Proginator Psych, even if it is a requirement to other crossfire techs.... They never knew about these aliens until they meet them and so on... where they can base their Proginator Psych research on. The aliens would also have to research Social Psych or wait until the humans learn their form of communication. So even then, there will be a period of time before any form of diplomacy can be done. The Usurpers will go on take over the whole Isle of Deneira... meaning taking the Morganite, Data Angel, Free Drone and Spartan bases there.

Caretakers won't rush into battle, but will attack if humans are in the way or damaging planet :P will be the easiest to deal with thought.

Once the Usurpers and Caretakers discover they are each survived and where they are located... all out war and anyone between them will be indanger.

Do remember, they will be more advanced too :P

-LMP

	28-10-2001 02:13									#99
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

We'll give them bugs a run for their money when they come looking for our bases, that's for sure. Still, a brilliant mass retreat across the ocean may be in order (ala Dunkirk) to save the majority of lives there.

	28-10-2001 03:38									#100
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Argonaut We'll give them bugs a run for their money when they come looking for our bases, that's for sure. Still, a brilliant mass retreat across the ocean may be in order (ala Dunkirk) to save the majority of lives there.

The Spartans will cooperate if the bugs attack Bunker 118 on the island.


You know, i am actually anxious for them to arrive. I assume we will advance the years a little from 2200?

	28-10-2001 04:12									#101
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I believe that, according to the game rules, they should rule jointly... or Morgan should arbitrate a tie-breaking vote.

About Progenitor Psyche- a little note: all factions already have the tech; however since they do not know the aliens, they will have to reresearch it, as per LMP's orders.

Guardian- It's nice to be right for once

	28-10-2001 04:33									#102
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud I believe that, according to the game rules, they should rule jointly... or Morgan should arbitrate a tie-breaking vote.

Sparta will agree to that. Who should propose it?

	28-10-2001 04:46									#103
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Another issue that the University would like to discuss in regards to the charter- Just why are women and children given extra rights? Are they weaker- no! Are they more important, most certainly NO! We suggest a revision.

I nearly feel out of my chair when I read this.


If we had a thread for the best quotes in CC, this would surely be there.

	28-10-2001 14:01									#104
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Interesting. If I take on the Usurpers as I very much want to, I may very well be in the unusual position (as a godlike controlling personality) of having to go to war with myself. How very Freudian.

I suspect the technological gap between Progenitors and humans may not be as great as we think, considering that people were claiming Chaos Guns several months ago. Remember, the aliens each land with five Level 1 technologies. They wouldn't last ten minutes.

	28-10-2001 21:38									#105
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeah, I'm sure you would love to see Morgan make the decision Sprayber Talk about a governership being continually questioned. It will be funny after all this, for us to have to cooperate on Denairia to get people out alive. Serious irony there.

As for the Alien tech, because they're landing so late, I'm assuming a lot more will "survive the crash" yes? Perhaps shard and res-bolts?

	29-10-2001 00:32									#106
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

What about we give the aliens 5 more technologies than the faction who has the second most technologies has?

That should be fair.

--
why, thank you sprayber

	29-10-2001 02:38									#107
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud I believe that, according to the game rules, they should rule jointly... or Morgan should arbitrate a tie-breaking vote. About Progenitor Psyche- a little note: all factions already have the tech; however since they do not know the aliens, they will have to reresearch it, as per LMP's orders. Guardian- It's nice to be right for once

Game rules? there isn't any really about voting :P especially in this form of SMAX :P


Anyway, Svensgaard stated some of the rules of the election written in some PLanetary Council Constitution. I WON'T alow this game bog down on something like the election :P The rules i stated makes a lot of sence for a Council of its type. Doesn't make sence that the past Governor should continue just because the others couldn't choose another...especially if the Governor hasn't even gotten any votes to be a governor again!!
So it is either force the Abstainies to vote or re-election


there are other things i want to get into like the SPace Race and maybe another big War before the aliens come :P The Pirates as been working on some projects over the years...projects that doesn't exist in the game... mainly weaponry :P and one of them won't seriously be used...but would be fun to have for show names of the Projects are called the Porcupine and Sweetdream Projects. One of them is already completed, but a full fledge prototpe never been created yet and the other is nearly ready to be prototyped...just need to figure out where :P


Sprayber, it is possible for the SPartans to have the Pirates as friends, just that the Spartans never gave any reason for the Pirates to trust them :P

-LMP

	29-10-2001 02:50									#108
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Mr. President Interesting. If I take on the Usurpers as I very much want to, I may very well be in the unusual position (as a godlike controlling personality) of having to go to war with myself. How very Freudian. I suspect the technological gap between Progenitors and humans may not be as great as we think, considering that people were claiming Chaos Guns several months ago. Remember, the aliens each land with five Level 1 technologies. They wouldn't last ten minutes.

Yes, thats why i will have them start out more advance as the game even with better weaponry, they still have to reestablish themselves and their numbers will be smaller then the Humans.
So, i was thinking that we have another skip in time of 5-10 years and do a quick history enough time for the aliens to establish some bases and conquering some human ones. when the Aliens arrive, will be interesting to see the factions in another big war... will be like Turtledove's World War series... aliens out of blue during WW2 and starting conquering the world...forcing the Human nations to join forces, despite dislike each other, to fight the Common threat.

Meaning, the Spartans won't be able to make friends with the Usurpers until one or the other learned whoevers language. In the meantime, the Usurpers will go off invading Bunker 118.... but i am sure the Spartans will give them a good fight
The aliens will be mainly using Infantry Units at first too and some Battle Orgs they find

Another thing, the Central Continent, especially University, willl have to worry about the aliens invading the continent simply to control that Manifold Center Usurpers wants to use it for Godhood and the Caretakers wants to prevent the Usurpers and others from using it. Caretakers would know how to use the center properly too, so can expect them having Mindworm armies

-LMP

	29-10-2001 02:59									#109
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Argonaut Yeah, I'm sure you would love to see Morgan make the decision Sprayber Talk about a governership being continually questioned. It will be funny after all this, for us to have to cooperate on Denairia to get people out alive. Serious irony there. As for the Alien tech, because they're landing so late, I'm assuming a lot more will "survive the crash" yes? Perhaps shard and res-bolts?

Yes was thinking to have the actual ships crashland (smaller then Unity i would think). So could explain their increase numbers and their production bonus (replicators? ) Will be like transformers/beast wars. They use their crashlanded ships has bases

but they will be mainly using Crossfire weaponry at first. Usurpers will be able to find the wreckage of the Subspace center and find goodies there which the Morganites miss in their short time exploring the place before th Data Angels blue the place to kingdom come during the Denaira wars...which isn't part of history as no one completly knows what happened during that time.

	29-10-2001 04:35									#110
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I was thinking that maybe at this time the Spartans are fighting over Athens outpost. I guess they would be fighting the Pirates and Drones. Things I want to make sure about

Sparta would not attack the Drones first---But they won't hesitate to respond to Drone attacks

Sparta would not attack the Pks---Sparta has no interest in fighting on its southern border unless the Pks start something.

Sparta will only attack the Pirates at Athens outpost if a war is started. If the drones attack, then sparta will most definitly try to take border bases and the base on the ilse of deniaria.

I think it can be safe to say that the hive will attack the drones as well to back sparta. Sparta will try to convince the hive to concentrate on the drones and not attack pks as well.

This is how I would like to have the Spartans react to the aliens landing.

the aliens land and began their slaughter. I would like it to be that the Spartans kind of back off at first to see what happens. the aliens take one of the other factions bases and the Spartan see what the aliens indend to do with the humans and decides to attack the aliens and help some of the other factions get off the island by taking the full force of the alien attack. while the other factions are withdrawing their armies the Spartans throw everthing against them. They will loose of course along with Bunker 118.

	29-10-2001 06:46									#111
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I see no reason why the winners can not rule jointly... however if everyone wishes for a revote, then, let it be

A noble sacrafice Sprayber

But will all the factions evacuate the island? or will some remain?

	29-10-2001 07:25									#112
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud I see no reason why the winners can not rule jointly... however if everyone wishes for a revote, then, let it be A noble sacrafice Sprayber But will all the factions evacuate the island? or will some remain?

Military may stay and wage guerilla warfare...but the Usurpers will be trying to completly secure the Island.


Anyway, if war ever happens between the Pirates and Spartans, the pirates will launch their two Operations they were organizing for almost a decade.

I do expect a battle for the Athen Outpost or the Pirate forces there go straight for Hawk of Chiron or Janissary rock or Blast Rifle Crag (again). technicly, in the latest maps, Athen Outpost is WITHIN the Free Drone borders. For the Spartans to attack Athen Outpost, they would be violating the Drones borders. The Free Drones will avoid war, but will attack any Spartan units in Drone territory after some warnings (depending where the Spartans are heading and located). Same with the Hive. There is still the Free Drone Blockade, which is lot more fortified then before and they also fortified their drone-spartan borders....except the piece of border near Athen Outpost. The Free Drones have two bases on the island just to say and Bearcat did invite Roze and Svensgaard to Free Drone Central to talk about a possible three way alliance. Chiron Alliance ain't as tight as before and is gradually fading. So if the Alliance happens before the war, then the Free Drones may be force to help the Pirates out.... Free Drones will be hard to attack as they are quite fortified and have a large kick arse air force to constantly bomb ground targets.

Anyway, the Pirates will not ask the Free Drones or anyone else to help them out...but will not mind if they volunteer. Another hot zone will be Fleet Anchorage. The Pirates Third Fleet will go in and try wipe the Spartan Navy out and capture or destroy Fleet Anchorage. Pirates may go and try to take that island west of Assassin's Redoubt. Bunker 118 may also be vulnerable to Blockade and Heavy Bombarment

Now, we just have to wait who will attack first

Darkcloud, we cannot have a joint leadership... will be a headache and Can't do that in the Game anyway.

-LMP

	29-10-2001 07:27									#113
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Another thing, the Pirates would prefer to keep any war with the Spartans a faction vs faction war. Pirates not interested in Hive or the Believers.

-LMP

	29-10-2001 09:30									#114
	Remove this text

When the Usurpers do land, their first instinct will be to annihilate every human settlement they see. But as soon as they locate the Caretakers, they'll quickly realize the futility of trying to cleave a path from Deianira to Mount Planet and start looking to bargain with some humans. Of course, anyone who sides with the Caretakers is automatically on the enemy list. The Gaians and the Cult might like H'minee because of the pro-Planet agenda.

You can be sure, though, I'll be careful about allying with myself. I'm sure Morgan would try to gain an economic advantage from the Progenitor landing, but I don't think it would be fair for me to ally the strongest economy with one of the alien factions. Morgan's interest is to be a relatively neutral country. He doesn't like or believe in war, and will try to stay on the good side of as many countries as possible, both human and otherwise.

On an unrelated note, I think it's cool that once again a city called Athens is making trouble for a state called Sparta. Who says history doesn't repeat itself?

	29-10-2001 18:03									#115
	Got spare money?

quote: On an unrelated note, I think it's cool that once again a city called Athens is making trouble for a state called Sparta. Who says history doesn't repeat itself?

Thats why the Pirates called it the Athen outpost and it is not a city/base. There is barely any civilians there, mainly military.

Athen outpost as 6 Battle Dragon units commanded by Colonel Rohrer. They are Elite units, so won't be a walk in the park. Would also be the first Real ground war between the Pirates and Spartans. And no, will not alow her to die she is base on a real person Same with most of my characters :P

The Athen outpost is also Garrisoned by a Gatling Marine unit.

-LMP

	29-10-2001 20:17									#116
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by [LordLMP] And no, will not allow her to die she is base on a real person Same with most of my characters :P

Interesting...

Most of my characters are... well, made up.

Obviously, Commissioner Lal was already there, and General Braddock + Commander (now General) Cooke were introduced by LMP before I came along, but the rest are my own creations.

That is, Commander (now General) Grafton is loosely based on the hero from a series of novels by Stephen Coonts.

Also, Isabella Fuentes is a name I've borrowed from some movie I watched on TV one night a little over a year ago (don't remember the title). Her personality is also loosely based on that character.

Oh, and if anybody thinks they've noticed that I seem to like female characters... well, I do!
No particular reason that I'm conscious about, just - in some ways - I find them more interesting to write about. I try not to go too overboard with it though...

At the moment, there are 3 females among my major characters:

UN Ambassador Isabella Fuentes
Unofficial nickname: Miss Protocol
Head of permanent UN mission to the Planetary Council

Wing Commander Cilia Anderson
Unofficial nickname: Commander Checklist
Currently in charge of UN Air operations on the Western Continent

Major Kyla Johnson
Unofficial nickname: Major Nutcase (!!! )
Commands the 4 Assault Rover units currently based at New Hope

I've been thinking about making a short bio on each character, sort of like what Sprayber and I started at one point this spring... I've got lots of other stuff to do before that though, so... we'll see...

	29-10-2001 20:49									#117
	Remove this text

When is this timewarp going to happen? Before the peace talks? No objection to that, because Cyber is apparently seldom online and thus it would be a drag to have a heated argument about it. I'm sure the accords can be resolved here and then put down as history.

quote: Originally posted by Guardian I've been thinking about making a short bio on each character, sort of like what Sprayber and I started at one point this spring... I've got lots of other stuff to do before that though, so... we'll see...

An interesting idea. I've been looking to improve my own characters aswell.

	30-10-2001 03:15									#118
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Okay, almost all of my characters i either base on a real person or some other characters from some other Games, books, movies, and so on... Only character i made which is base on Moi is LMP currently Commander of Nautilus Probe Team 12. Even more secretive, he leads a group of people that are all over Chiron, but won't effect the game and won't bring them up especially when we decided no non-smax subgroups. anyway, the group is called the Macky. which barely anyone knows and usually just rumours when someone does hear about them. One of those Chironian Legends/Stories/Rumours :P


Captain Svensgaard
Leader of the Nautilus Pirates
-some character traits is base on mines

Branko
Pirates Chief of Intelligence
-hard to locate him as he moves a lot. No one knows his real name and the one mark in the Unity computer core and so on is fake. part of the Macky. The name Branko i got it from some modern spy book... and always used that name afterwards in various stories, games, and so on.

Quark Gates
Pirates Chief of Economy
-Quark from startrek: deep space nine and Gates from Bill Gates of Microsoft

Colonel Amber Rohrer
Commander of the First Battle Dragon Division (6 Battle Dragons)
-also a Macky, but not an active one as she was stuck on the Eastern Continent in the last 50 years or so leading the Nautilus units there. She is base on a friend on the internet. Of course, she is not the military type, but oh well

Colonel Earl Deavey
Commander of the Second Battle Dragon Division
-base on a good friend of mines, where he was like my older brother for 5 years of my life when i was young. Agressive guy and not one to mess with... of course, his health is the crap at the moment.

Admiral Proudmoore
Commander of the Nautilus' Third Fleet in Chiron Sea.
-Name is from Warcraft 2, King Proudmoore of the Kul Turas.

as for the characters i created for other factions....

General Kane
-name i used a lot, but don't remember where i got it from... i know the character i got it from was a Pirate

Major Kurita
-last name from Battletech

General Armond Braddock
-from battlezone 2. the character's history is base on the one in the game. from Scientist to military General

Commander (now general it seems) Cooke
-the main character the player was playing in Battlezone 2


who else did i create?


Other names i would like to use...

Names from real people i know/knew:

Ellarose Swinimer
Jillian Thompson
Eric Preston
Loyaly
Pascal Dion
Pierre Lemieux
Sophie Daze
Kevin Pasztor
Jenn Kent
Brian Cox
Tina Mollison
Merlin
Melissa
others

Names i use a lot for characters in different games and so on:

Tina Gold
Melanie Starunner
Joe Nova
Marcus Davion
Jean Ryker
Crusher
others


-LMP

Last edited by on 30-10-2001 at 03:24

	30-10-2001 05:55									#119
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Okay, LMP- then we shall have a revote... Although the University will not be happy about it- they will not become violent over it.

Anyways- It will be best for the game to move on,, and create new intrigues

Lettuce see-

Current Main Characters

-Head Academician Prokhor Zakharov
Based on: Myself

-Ambassador Ian Davidson-Splertovsky
Crazy Fascist

-Daniel Jakhobs-Howell
Psychotic Military Type

-----
Other characters have been mentioned; but they are not as important as the above trio...
I currently am introducing new main characters, however.

	30-10-2001 10:06									#120
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I like that "Crazy Fascist" one, DarkCloud. You don't know me, do you?

And LMP, glad to see you appreciate WarCraft II. You named another character Stromgarde, didn't you? I think their king was Thoras Trollbane, so his name wouldn't really be appropriate for this game. Maybe Terenas or Perenolde, though?

I use a lot of Scandinavian names, just because I think they sound cool. Michael Johansen, the name of the Morganic Industrial Co-Ordinator and Morgan's third-in-command, was also the name of a Danish soccer player who played for Bolton Wanderers until a couple of years ago. Our Defense Minister, Michelle Pellegrino, carries a Spanish name that I heard somewhere and rather liked. I also have a rather small cast of characters, it seems; Aron Fleischer (a caricature of the White House Press Secretary - you knew his name reminded you of something) is not involved much. But I do have plans for Matt Svensson of the Special Forces when the Alien Crossfire begins. A while ago I went through a period of basing my characters on myself and/or people I knew, but it didn't really work out.