13-10-2001 06:48									#1
	Has the pessimism on this board gotten out of hand? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

1) Yes - the naysayers are finding the most trivial, nitpicking, and irrelevant of aspects to ***** about.

2) No - No way. Firaxis are money hungry bastards not shipping w/ MP, which has made me look for things to ***** about.

Last edited by fluxcapacitor on 14-10-2001 at 06:13

	13-10-2001 06:55									#2
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Hey, you are from Orange? Where? I'm originally from Orange, City of Orange. Over where Chapman Ave. starts to run up the hills toward Irvine.

To answer your question: Firaxis could have avoided 90% of the *****ing with decent PR.

	13-10-2001 07:01									#3
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I'll be damned, small world, huh Yin? I live real close to Villa Park High, behind K-Mart at Taft & Tustin but past the 55 (i.e. not in the slumville that is those apartments behind K-mart).

Agreed about the PR. But my point is that some of the complaint threads are like the equilivalent of those drug commercials that have become in vogue the last few years. You know where they tell you how good their drug is for whatever problem, and then proceed to list the most God-awful side effects one could imagine? The level of the complaints here just never ceases to amaze...

	13-10-2001 07:08									#4
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LOL! I lived next to El Modena High School, just about 10 minutes from you.

Well, since most people have me targetted as the King Whiner, it might surprise you to know that I agree the Doomsday stuff sometimes gets out of hand. My general beef has never really been with the contents of the game but how and when have learned about those contents.

I don't think Firaxis tries to cheat people...I just think they fall asleep at the PR switch far too often.

	13-10-2001 07:28									#5
	Tired of ads?

open mouth <- insert foot
closed moth <- apply boot

either way, they lose.

	13-10-2001 07:52									#6
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quote: Firaxis could have avoided 90% of the *****ing with decent PR.

I don't usually agree with ya Yin, but this is an EXTREMELY good point. Even though I could care less about MP, and could care even less about the complaints about the lack of MP, I do think that Firaxis could have been a wee bit more upfront.

But hey, I'm happy that there even IS a Civ3. We'll see how ya feel in 6 months or so- maybe the MP will be so freakin' good you'll goo your pants.


peace, love, soap.

	13-10-2001 07:54									#7
	Tired of ads?

Some people are only happy when they have something to piss on.

	13-10-2001 07:57									#8
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quote: We'll see how ya feel in 6 months or so- maybe the MP will be so freakin' good you'll goo your pants.

LOL! I hope so!

	13-10-2001 08:15									#9
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Has the pessimism on this board gotten out of hand? ABSOLUTELY.

It seems every time anyone notices any little thing that is either:
1. Different from a Civ2 feature they liked, or
2. The same as a Civ2 feature they did NOT like

... they rant and complain at how terrible it is.
Regardless of the fact that Civ3 is going to be so different that all their Civ2 experiences will be irrelevant.
Are they just spamming because there seems to be nothing to talk about until after the game arrives in their hot little hands?
Even Yin continually bombs the game and Firaxis, but does not make it clear in those posts (or threads) that he is only criticizing their PR efforts. Not every company can afford the expense of good PR damage control, especially on the net where there is communication from the whole spectrum of opinions. They are only doing the best they can, and when we get 'nasty', I do not believe it improves their efforts on whatever they are trying to accomplish (maybe it's MP at this point).

Sorry, but I must have read too many threads I should have ignored because of all the whiners. Now I have done my part to bring myself down to their level.

	13-10-2001 08:57									#10
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Oh yeah, it is out of hand. From reading these posts, you'd assume Firaxis had make CtP2 .

	13-10-2001 09:48									#11
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"beefs against Firaxis"... I'd say more that many proposition are made. We directly see which side you're taking in the poll. I guess a nice part of complaints aren't very useful or anything, but there are still that propose stuff that may be right, even if it's about tiny details. We call perfectionist the guy who'll correct even details.

	13-10-2001 22:40									#12
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bump

	13-10-2001 22:44									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

It's obvious that the pessimism is out of hand, does that really need a bump?

	13-10-2001 22:57									#14
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 To answer your question: Firaxis could have avoided 90% of the *****ing with decent PR.

Doubt it. If they're planning on releasing MP in an expansion, all the PR in the world wouldn't save this board from a huge whinefest. In fact, it would be worse.

By not letting us know for sure, they can at least have some people saying, hey, let's not get out of hand because we just don't know!

	13-10-2001 23:52									#15
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So all of you are going to be blind optomists and Think the game is going to be everything you wanted? Is it too much to ask for Multiplayer? Most games that are meant to have multiplayer, are released with it. The multiplayer add on has become obsolete. Firaxis wants to sell hundreds of thousands of copies? then why don't they include what is now considered an integral part of every game released? Can anyone else remember those terrible screen shots of the roads over the mountains? At the time, I preferred civ2 graphics to civ3. And civ2 is old Firaxis has brought these problems down on themselves, I'd say the *****ing is justified

	14-10-2001 00:12									#16
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower So all of you are going to be blind optomists and Think the game is going to be everything you wanted? Is it too much to ask for Multiplayer? Most games that are meant to have multiplayer, are released with it. The multiplayer add on has become obsolete. Firaxis wants to sell hundreds of thousands of copies? then why don't they include what is now considered an integral part of every game released? Can anyone else remember those terrible screen shots of the roads over the mountains? At the time, I preferred civ2 graphics to civ3. And civ2 is old Firaxis has brought these problems down on themselves, I'd say the *****ing is justified

Firaxis has already explained that they are trying to make a great multiplayer. It is not easy to make a really good multiplayer for TBS. Turn-based games are not as compatible with multiplayer as real-time games are! Should they really delay the game just to add mutliplayer? What if they are not able to make a great multiplayer for civ3, should they just not release civ3 at all?

	14-10-2001 00:21									#17
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by H Tower So all of you are going to be blind optomists and Think the game is going to be everything you wanted? Is it too much to ask for Multiplayer?

No the question was "Has the pessimism on this board gotten out of hand". Just because you answer yes to that doesnt make you a "bind optimist".

PS: Multiplayer didnt make gold. Get over it.

	14-10-2001 02:31									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Shiva No the question was "Has the pessimism on this board gotten out of hand". Just because you answer yes to that doesnt make you a "bind optimist". PS: Multiplayer didnt make gold. Get over it.

Correct on all counts.

	14-10-2001 02:48									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Oh yeah, it is out of hand. From reading these posts, you'd assume Firaxis had make CtP2 .

But that is the great fear.

Most of us have been here before with the excitement and hype from Activision only to find the game was a turkey. Hence the feeling that we need to keep our heads and feet on the ground about Firaxis' latest contribution to the genre.

Overall I am optimistic, but there are real problems and concerns which will only be answered when I've handed over some more cash to a game publisher. Hence I haven't voted because the options are two extremes and I'm staying on the fence and in the middle.

David

	14-10-2001 03:32									#20
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Yes, but that's not to say most of it isn't justified.

	14-10-2001 05:58									#21
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A big time yes.

	14-10-2001 06:48									#22
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has anyone ever seen that shirt about the movie 'titanic?' i had it a coupole of years ago, it said "the boat sank. get OVER it."
there should be a new shirt available on direct from apolyton that says the same thing about multiplayer

	15-10-2001 03:32									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by dainbramaged13 has anyone ever seen that shirt about the movie 'titanic?' i had it a coupole of years ago, it said "the boat sank. get OVER it." there should be a new shirt available on direct from apolyton that says the same thing about multiplayer

You see, the real fear will be to see a day the shirt "the game sank. Get OVER it"

We came here to see and love the Civ III of our dreams. Too bad dreams are sometimes soo far from reality...

See my signature below...

	15-10-2001 03:50									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yes it is out of hand, but that is one of the few things we can talk about now.

	15-10-2001 04:11									#25
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Is the pessimism out of hand? Maybe.
Has the hype been out of hand (i.e. Sid is God)? Definitely.

I've used this example before but here it goes again. It's like the Phantom Menace. It was a good movie, really. AT least as good as the other three. Look back. Did the first three have great acting? Holeless plots? Complete internal coherence? Nope. But everyone expected TPM to be Kubrick or Copella. But no, it was a Lucas movie. So everyone thought the movie was inferior (when in some ways it was superior) to the original three.

I think Civ3 will be a good game. If it turns out to be a great game, I will appreciate it all the more. On the other hand, the hypists ('optimist' is an understatement) will be sorely disappointed if the game is merely good. Hate to break it to you, but - Sid is just a guy and Firaxis is just a company. The pessimism around here, while sometimes a bit much, has yet to equal the hype.

	15-10-2001 05:22									#26
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Well, I started this thread, so I guess I'm an optimist. But seriously, we've all played Civ here, and that's where my optimism comes from. It's Civ. That's all that needs to be said. Do not give me the CtP argument, I've never played them, and purposefully steered clear of them specifically because Mr. Meier had nothing whatsoever to do w/ them. All the nitpickers will be on here after release bithcing about what should have been done. Hell, I don't expect Civ3 to be truly flawless. But to think it will be even so much as just "good" I personally find prepostorous. For those that own a PS2, just how bad do you want Metal Gear Solid 2? Probably not as much as I do. But Civ 3 for me takes precedence over any other entertainment product through the rest of this year. Why? Because it's Civ!!! Any game that can keep you playing through an entire day has to have some merit. And while I haven't experienced that w/ civ III yet, I have no doubt I will. There is something about Civ, Civ2, and Alpha Centauri [save for its' ultra-dork Sci Fi theme] where in each one every element comes to together to form a series of games that is so...brilliant. I do not write this to hype. That is truly how I feel about Civ. No other game series can touch it, save for itself, which in 16 days we'll all have the pleasure of enjoying. Your thoughts?

	15-10-2001 05:43									#27
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quote: The pessimism around here, while sometimes a bit much, has yet to equal the hype.

Perfectly said, Sir!

	15-10-2001 05:53									#28
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quote: Originally posted by fluxcapacitor Well, I started this thread, so I guess I'm an optimist. But seriously, we've all played Civ here, and that's where my optimism comes from. It's Civ. That's all that needs to be said.

No, that's not all that needs to be said. Civ was good, Civ2 was better. Civ3 is as of yet an unknown animal.

quote: Do not give me the CtP argument

Why on earth not? For all intents and purposes they're very close in actual mechanics and design and concepts. Sure, CTP1 had the clickfest interface and different wonders (cosmetic stuff really), but overall they are close.

quote: I've never played them, and purposefully steered clear of them specifically because Mr. Meier had nothing whatsoever to do w/ them.

Well, at the very least, Sid inspired them. Other than that, so what? Not like Sid never had a miss or a SimGolf. And it's not as though Sid was involved with every good TBS game either (MOO, MOO2 anyone?)

quote: Because it's Civ!!! Any game that can keep you playing through an entire day has to have some merit.

CTP1 and CTP2 have merit then. We are agreed. But again, they are both civ as well (Sid or no Sid).

Sorry if I don't share your faith in Sid and Firaxis, but this is the very hype I'm talking about. Civ3 could be really excellent or a real dog. But guess what? It'll still be civ either way.

	15-10-2001 07:27									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Mister Pleasant Well, at the very least, Sid inspired them. Other than that, so what? Not like Sid never had a miss or a SimGolf. And it's not as though Sid was involved with every good TBS game either (MOO, MOO2 anyone?)

Yes, however has had more than an average number of great games unlike others. Its a little more than luck. You can say what you want but CTP is no Civ. Just because an ape has 98% f the DNA of a human doesnt make it a man. Its all in the way its put together. Civ3 is made by the guy who was behind the other two that did so well. Thats what counts. Just because someone dropped the ball with the others doesnt give any information to read anything into it.

As for being inspired by Sid so what? Wonder how many RT games were inspired by Warcraft and fell flat on thier butt. Doesnt make them Warcraft. Blizzard makes it Warcraft the same way Sid makes it Civ and not some pale imitation.

	15-10-2001 07:38									#30
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quote: But that is the great fear. Most of us have been here before with the excitement and hype from Activision only to find the game was a turkey. Hence the feeling that we need to keep our heads and feet on the ground about Firaxis' latest contribution to the genre.

Activision v. Firaxis.... big different.

Sid has NEVER presided over a bad game... that gives me faith enough.