16-10-2001 22:32									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well that editor already, even timestamped or whatever, looks WAY better than Civ2's... and Civ2's wasn't really that bad, just not very "glossy"

	16-10-2001 22:49									#32
	Is this indeed RULES.TXT?? Tired of ads?

So a quick question no one has asked... Will this officially replace RULES.TXT

	16-10-2001 22:58									#33
	Re: Is this indeed RULES.TXT?? Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by CGreen So a quick question no one has asked... Will this officially replace RULES.TXT

Well, my best guess is that this is just an interface for editing rules.txt (or the equivalent). You could probably track down the relevant text files and edit them in your favorite text editor, if you preferred. I seem to remember reading somewhere that there is no rules.txt, though, that instead it was replaced by multiple text files covering different parts of the game (one for government, one for units, etc.). Or maybe that was just in one of my many Civ 3 dreams?

	16-10-2001 23:23									#34
	Got spare money?

If this editor is just an interface between the new rules.txt it will probably be dumped sooner or later by scenario makers simply because it's 'too limiting'. The scen editors made by the civ community will surpass this editor anyway.

P.S
I really hope the rules are stored in some sort of txt file and not some sort of encrypted file.


Double P.S
I also submitted a question to "ask the civ team" if the scenario editor would be released as open source. This is quite logical question, scenario will push the standard editor to the limit in a couple of months. Releasing the source for the editor would greatly speed up editor enhancements.

They never answered....

	16-10-2001 23:57									#35
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The editor looks great! But I, also, hope that tinkerers will have direct access to text files, allowing greater customization and modification.

Does anyone know how readily we'll be able to edit graphics? Will the game ship with a sprite editor (doubtful), or will everything be editable via shareware programs?

	17-10-2001 00:10									#36
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I vote to see how powerful the editor is before going to the source files... Obviously, if they're text, then editing direct will be very easy, but if they look like 00000004hbodew087243--42982jsdih09e098-3242ipfe9fe9-8feuh3i3098ure or something like that, then the editor is all I'm gonna touch...

I would like to say the editor does appear to be much more functional then I had ever imagined...

	17-10-2001 00:13									#37
	Remove this text

IIRC they said a while ago that rules.txt would be replaced with another fileformat, and that you needed the editor to edit it.

	17-10-2001 01:05									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

My reaction: Just by looking at that one screen I have realized the game is a WHOLE HELL of a lot deeper than anyone realizes at this point.

	17-10-2001 01:19									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Green Giant My reaction: Just by looking at that one screen I have realized the game is a WHOLE HELL of a lot deeper than anyone realizes at this point.

Yes - there are a ton of variables you can control for goverment type, and I'm sure that carries over to the other editable items as well. All those variables will impact the game in various ways, so there's a lot going on in there - and a lot we'll have to figure out as we play as far as strengths and weaknesses of various choices we make in the game.

	17-10-2001 01:35									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Real interesting screen! One has to wonder what gets cut off on the side and bottom - looks like this isn't the whole enchilada.

One thing we can see, unless they've changed it recently - the game DOES have Diplomat and Spy units after all! Check out not only the Espionage box on the opened tab, but also the Espionage Missions tab.

Gramphos,
Can you confirm that statement that the text files will not be editable in the raw form? No matter how great the editor is, I'm sure there are cases I'd like to get to the raw files. For instance, look at the corruption levels of governments - what if I want to have corruption at something other than one of the default levels?

	17-10-2001 01:56									#41
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

For the record, this is from the 8/9/01 Edition of Ask the Civ Team:

quote: Hello Firaxis team, I would like to know if you will still use a textfile with rules for the units and terrains. I'm asking this because I always liked to alter the terrainrules to get more food and shield production. I also would like to know if their will be premade maps and if they are bigger than the ones in Civ II. I am really looking forward to play the game. Jan van Nistelrooy Netherlands   Jan, We are hard at work on an editor which will allow you to customize the rules to your liking, in very much the same way as the rules.txt file did, though we think the new editor is a lot more user-friendly! We do plan on shipping with a premade "world" map, and you will find that maps in Civ III can be much larger than those found in Civ II. Our random map generator is also much improved over Civ II's, so you should get challenging and enjoyable maps every time.

So it's "user friendly" but we don't know if it's text. But yeah, the editor is a whole lot more involved than I thought. It looks like they're opening up almost everything. I like that you can add things (governments, e.g.) rather than just replace them as in Civ II.

Regarding spies, I don't think there's an actual diplomat/spy unit; I think you can just perform spy operations from the diplomacy screen.

	17-10-2001 02:03									#42
	Suffering from ads?

What's the difference between forced labor and paid labor? I would assume that hurrying production will always cost money, so is forced labor just cheaper?

And what's with the experience level of Diplomats and Spies? I though they were gone from the game.

	17-10-2001 02:04									#43
	Artist, Scientist, Tycoon Remove this text

I think these may have been other types of Great Leaders. Some Firaxian had stated (long ago) that they were experimenting with non-military GL's; these are probably artifacts of that experimentation.

A damn shame! I think non-military GLs would have greatly enhanced gameplay! However, they probably couldn't figure out a suitable spawning method (why would a battle produce an artist? (although Goya and others were inspired by the battlefield, but I digress)), and just decided to have the military GL make armies or build improvements.

Oh well. I'll just have to imagine that all geniuses gain inspiration when ankle-deep in blood.

	17-10-2001 02:06									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

El Hidalgo,
Why then would they have "experience level of Diplomats" and "experience level of Spies" written in the editor? You wouldn't need to break it into those two unit types if it was just done from the diplomacy screen. Otherwise, you could just get more espionage related options as you move further through the tech tree, as I'm sure happens with the diplomacy screen in other ways. Clearly, its just the same as Civ2, even down to some government types having naturally better Spies (as Communism did in Civ2).

What's the evidence that there are no Spy or Diplomat units?

	17-10-2001 02:19									#45
	Put an end to popups!

Diplomats and spies are indeed gone but you can still perform espionage missions. The experience levels for diplomats and spies pertain to bonuses/penalties for diplomatic and spy missions. Thus, if your diplomats are highly experienced, diplomatic missions will be more likely to succeed. Likewise, if your spies are inexperienced, spy missions will be more likely to fail.

	17-10-2001 02:46									#46
	Inflate your Upload Space

Does this mean spy missions will be sort of like what happens in Space Empires 4? You put points or money into missions but the only thing required is contact with the civ - as opposed to moving a spy or diplomat unit. That would be excellent.

Also, the editor looks pretty good.

	17-10-2001 02:53									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Harlan What's the evidence that there are no Spy or Diplomat units?

Boing! I think Mike just answered it. Seemed pretty obvious to me, caravans are gone too and that didn't mean commerce was gone either.

	17-10-2001 02:56									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS Diplomats and spies are indeed gone but you can still perform espionage missions. The experience levels for diplomats and spies pertain to bonuses/penalties for diplomatic and spy missions. Thus, if your diplomats are highly experienced, diplomatic missions will be more likely to succeed. Likewise, if your spies are inexperienced, spy missions will be more likely to fail.

First you say dips and spies are out of the game, next you say they're still around. Is there a spy unit of some sort?


And is the rules.txt in a special encrypted or some sort of txt file?


Hope you can help Mike,

	17-10-2001 03:00									#49
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Looks to me like he is describing the espionage window, where you can probably direct your diplomats/spies on missions without actually sending units around.

	17-10-2001 03:04									#50
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quote: Originally posted by CapTVK First you say dips and spies are out of the game, next you say they're still around. Is there a spy unit of some sort?

Diplomat and Spy units are gone. The ability to perform diplomatic and spy missions has been abstracted; you now perform these functions on a "Espionage" screen or a "Diplomacy" screen or some such.

	17-10-2001 03:06									#51
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by ixnay37 Looks to me like he is describing the espionage window, where you can probably direct your diplomats/spies on missions without actually sending units around.

Like in MOO with the spy screen, but I'm tired of second guessing every feature. I'll wait and see if Mike can answer this conundrum.

	17-10-2001 03:27									#52
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Stuie Diplomat and Spy units are gone. The ability to perform diplomatic and spy missions has been abstracted; you now perform these functions on a "Espionage" screen or a "Diplomacy" screen or some such.

You are correct.
And rules.txt is also gone. We decided to remove the text file in exchange for faster load times.... Everything that was in rules.txt is now in the editor. Anything you could do in the civ3 rules.txt file, you can do in the editor.

	17-10-2001 03:32									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

This editor looks just right for people like me who want to try their hand at making a few scenarios without wading through text files.

	17-10-2001 03:33									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks Mike, that's all I wanted to know:


in summary:

Diplomats & Spy unit have been replaced by an espionage screen
The equivalent of a rules.txt doesn't exist anymore in Civ3. Everything must be done via the editor to make changes.

	17-10-2001 03:42									#55
	Have mercy on us! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Stop it! All these screens are going to make me cry---

My CIV lust is reaching critical levels..

I love the Lincoln pics- he looks noble in ANY age.

	17-10-2001 04:01									#56
	Re: Have mercy on us! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba I love the Lincoln pics- he looks noble in ANY age.

Actually I think he looks embalmed.

	17-10-2001 04:42									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Everything that was in rules.txt is now in the editor.

Cool! I'm pretty sure this was one of the specific requests from the List.

	17-10-2001 05:15									#58
	Put an end to popups!

Requests from the List:

quote: A Single, Integrated Editor. This is perhaps the single most frequent wish among the fans. A "Game Editor" where everything found in Text and Graphics files could be edited, as well as maps and scenarios. This would be a separate executable from the main game, i.e. not a "cheat Menu" like in Civ2/SMAC, but a separate executable. Simplify the interface. Almost everything in the Game Editor should be reachable either through a simple drag-and-drop system or through pull-down menus. Placing objects should simply be a matter of dragging an object onto the game square.

	17-10-2001 05:30									#59
	Got spare money?

Is there a limit on the number of spy missions per turn? For if there is, it had better not be one.

	17-10-2001 06:06									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Harlan Real interesting screen! One has to wonder what gets cut off on the side and bottom - looks like this isn't the whole enchilada.

There appears to be much more. For one, this appears to be a "Government" screen and none of the tabs at the top resemble anything like government, and none of them is the chosen tab. Whatever is chosen is off-screen.

The complexity of this editor is like a dream-come-true! If all the tabs display as many editable choices as this one, this game is going to be fantastic!

I'm never going to be able to get thru the next two weeks!