17-10-2001 21:44									#1
	Fixed resources on Earth map? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I wonder whether the (strategic) resources on the world map will be fixed according to historical accuracy. This would mean:

- No horses in both Americas
- Plenty of oil in the Arab peninsula
- Gems in Africa
- Gold in Mesoamerica
- No resources at all in Japan
- and so on...

This would have, of course, large impact on gameplay, and would certainly cause unfair, but also challenging situations. If resources can be randomized (and I am sure they can) this would be an interesting addition, especially for those of us who like everything historical (like me), without annoying the others who prefer equal distribution.

	17-10-2001 21:54									#2
	Iroquois Inflate your Upload Space

The Iroquois special units needs horses.
And I fear the Japanese samurai needs iron.

	17-10-2001 22:08									#3
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quote: Originally quoted by: I wonder whether the (strategic) resources on the world map will be fixed according to historical accuracy. This would mean: - Plenty of oil in the Arab peninsula

I agree but don't forget that there is also oil in Texas and in Russia

	17-10-2001 22:09									#4
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No horses in America???? Explain.

	17-10-2001 22:22									#5
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well the horses in america were brought over by the europeans. There were no horses prior to that... or so I think.

	17-10-2001 22:36									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Faboda: No horses in America???? Explain.

Horses where imported into the Americas. Before the time of Cortez, the Native Americans never saw a horse before, and they assumed that they must be gods.

The wild mustangs of North American today are actually horses that got loose sometime after Cortez's initial contact and they became wild.

	17-10-2001 23:21									#7
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AFAIK there was a kind of prehistorical horse in America, but it died out before it could be domesticated.

And for the Iroquious having no UU: well, they either expand or play without it. that's challenge...

	17-10-2001 23:26									#8
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Firaxis has said there will be horses in America. It was listed as an example of game balance trumping realism.

	17-10-2001 23:34									#9
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...in american History, but wasen't there some sort of Ponies in North America prior to colonization?

	17-10-2001 23:40									#10
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quote: Originally posted by LordGrey ofLeva ...in american History, but wasen't there some sort of Ponies in North America prior to colonization?

No. The speed with which the Native Peoples adopted and adapted to the horses which arrived with the Spanish is legendary. Scared the hell out of the Americans when they reached the plains.

David

	17-10-2001 23:40									#11
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*grumble* I hope the only make one square with horses. I think it was a bad idea to make the iriquois UU a horse unit. Oh well, I am sure it will be editable.

	17-10-2001 23:42									#12
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Ya... Firaxis should have made thier UU a warrior!

	17-10-2001 23:44									#13
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I hope there will be an option to either randomize the resources or to play with fixed positions.

	18-10-2001 00:18									#14
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I would prefer random resources. Adds to the variation of the game.

Its bad enough knowing where the other civs start, let alone knowing where the best resource locations are.

	18-10-2001 00:26									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch I would prefer random resources. Adds to the variation of the game. Its bad enough knowing where the other civs start, let alone knowing where the best resource locations are.

I'd like to be able to randomize everything but the map if I wanted to, but I also would like to be able to play without any randomness if I wanted that.

	18-10-2001 01:31									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Crouchback No. The speed with which the Native Peoples adopted and adapted to the horses which arrived with the Spanish is legendary. Scared the hell out of the Americans when they reached the plains. David

Native American history can be divided B.H. and A.H., Before the Horse and After the Horse.

	18-10-2001 04:38									#17
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If we're starting the tech tree at Ground zero....then yes, there were horse in North America (at least, during the last ice age there were)

	18-10-2001 04:43									#18
	Re: Fixed resources on Earth map? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Bronso - No resources at all in Japan

Hmmmm could have sworn that Japan did have horses. I do know that they did at 1000 AD.

	18-10-2001 05:08									#19
	"No resources at all on Japan" Got spare money?

Japan does have natural resources, just nothing that was very useful when they started claiming a colonial empire in the early part of the last century. Things like coal, and oil, and precious metals are not present on the Japanese home islands.

I'd have to say though, what really matters about anything like this with regards to places like Japan and the UK, is the actual size of the map. If we have a crappy map like ctp2, (and civ2 wasn't much better) then Japan or the UK will only be able to support 1 or 2 good cities, and will be made up of 4 or 5 tiles. This would mean that it wouldn't be practical to put resources on the Japanese home islands. On the other hand, if the map is able to support, lets say, 8 or 10 cities on the Japanese home islands (which I know is very unlikely), then things like silk (though not nearly on par with that avaliable on the China mainland), and iron should be present. Also, the Japanese did't have to trade anyone for gunpowder, but then again, muskets fell into disuse, and so meager amounts of gunpowder would suffice after the Tokugawa Shogunate established supreme conrtol, which lasted until the Meiji Restoration, 1867.

It was only at about this time, when Japan began modernizing, and industrializing that the home islands could not support the resource needs. But, then again, depending on the size of the map, we have to figure that certain resources represent large caches, depending on how much space a tile of a resource represents. If China only has 2 sources of iron in thier terratory, and 1 source of silk, then yes, Japan should be devoid of all resrouces.

	18-10-2001 05:19									#20
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quote: Originally posted by TVA22 Japan does have natural resources, just nothing that was very useful when they started claiming a colonial empire in the early part of the last century. Things like coal, and oil, and precious metals are not present on the Japanese home islands.

Actually the north end of Honshu has both gold and silver mines.

	18-10-2001 05:34									#21
	Re: Fixed resources on Earth map? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Bronso I wonder whether the (strategic) resources on the world map will be fixed according to historical accuracy. This would mean: - No horses in both Americas - Plenty of oil in the Arab peninsula - Gems in Africa - Gold in Mesoamerica - No resources at all in Japan .

this is ridiculous, Japan doesn't have ALOT of resource, but that doesn't mean they have no resource at all.

	18-10-2001 06:25									#22
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TVA22

I also hated the World Maps in Civ and CTP.

I did a world map of my own that expanded Eastern Europe (Between Germany and Russia) and had a bigger Japan and Indonesia. I 'paid' for this by chopping terrain off the top and bottom of the map - which had the added benefit of making a northern sea route from Russia to China impassable.
I also 'degraded' the terrain for Siberia, Central Africa and Amazonia to make large civilizations there harder.


If the new world maps disappoint then I will probably do the same again.

	18-10-2001 07:17									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Bronso AFAIK there was a kind of prehistorical horse in America, but it died out before it could be domesticated.

I believe that is correct, too.

	18-10-2001 07:19									#24
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Well, if they are not correct out of the box, then i am sure there will be a mod that will justify it. As long as they provide the map, the mod should be a matter of changing resource locations in the editor.

	18-10-2001 07:26									#25
	Japanese Resources... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Japan would have lots of fish and whale off their coasts, yes?

I don't know what bonus it gives in c3, but to me whale was indisputably the best special in c2...

	18-10-2001 07:57									#26
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The Easy-To-Use Super-Duper Civ III Map Editor will allow you to add and delete resources at will.

And if you feel this punishes the Iroquois, change their UU to a re-named Impi.

Crisis? What crisis?

	18-10-2001 08:00									#27
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Woohoo! My country is going to be UNSTOPPABLE!!! when modern maps are made!

	18-10-2001 10:53									#28
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quote: Originally posted by cyril25376 I agree but don't forget that there is also oil in Texas and in Russia

I believe it is called 'Bubblin' Crude; Black Gold; Texas Tea'.


And Falconius is right- if you want a map (scenario) with fixed resources, you will be able to put them in with the editor.

	18-10-2001 10:53									#29
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DP

	18-10-2001 13:23									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Wow - once again something I learn as a reult of being involved with Civ. I always assumed that horses or ponies were native to America. Consider it a tribute to the incredible adaptivity of the Native American peoples.