23-10-2001 09:32									#1
	New PBEM offered - 4 Pirate factions Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

At another forum Scipio Centaurus set up a PBEM with the Pirates and 3 clone factions that he developed. We were on a 70% to 90% water world and played around 80 turns or so before the game got discontinued.

We'd played enough, though, to establish that this game was somewhat different - no AI, unique playing style as the Pirates - but against other pirates.

I'll CMN one if there is enough interest - 4 players needed. Scipio, if you want to play I'll set it up with your 3 cloned factions, and if not, I'll respect the 'copyright' and use 3 that I created.

Any takers?

Googlie

	23-10-2001 09:49									#2
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Hey Googlie!
That sounds really cool, count me in. Gotta love them pirates. Props to Scipio for the idea. Do you mind telling me what happened to the game you mentioned, why it was discontinued?
Also, I'd be interested in looking at a save from that game if you have one and it's cool. Thanks.

vitamin j

	23-10-2001 09:59									#3
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Sure. Count me in. You can use the Pirate clones I created if you want.

Since they are Pirate faction clones, would the game have to be SMAX? I'm not sure if SMAC terran.exe can recognize certain faction file attributes like the AQUATIC attribute.

There was no AI in WW01 because I created a SMAX WaterWorld scenario [SC file] based on a alphax.txt file with only the 4 human controlled factions in it. I don't know about the rest of you players from WW01, but I got faction file parse errors every time I loaded a game turn, because terranx.exe expects to find 7 factions specified in alphax.txt. Didn't affect play, though.

For a true all Pirates pickup game with no AI, I think you would need all 7 factions under human control. i.e. You would need 3 more Pirate clone factions. Or you could just let SMAX pick AI factions at random, like some of the Apolyton tournament games.

Otherwise, you might have to do what I did - create a custom scenario with AI factions removed by modifyng the alphax.txt file

Maybe there's some simple workaround I'm unaware of?

- Scipio

PS. To whoever asked why the WaterWorld game died... it died the "Death of a Thousand Delays".

Last edited by Scipio Centaurus on 23-10-2001 at 10:19

	23-10-2001 20:05									#4
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Scipio:

In the Scenario editor itself you can eliminate factions so that you are left with just the loaded ones (so you can set up anything from a 2-player to a 7-player game). Also you don't need to alter the alphax.txt to get a custom faction in the game if you are using the Scenario Editor (There's a "reload factions" command that lets you drop a faction and add another)

In smax's alphax there is an empty section called "Custom factions" - you can load up to six factions there and then when selecting from the game menu for factions in the game these choices appear - also selecting 'random' will let the computer choose from among these as well.

Using the 'reload factions' command, the leaders' pics that are displayed are the ones that were in the last game you played (so one clone leader might be Aki, if the cyborgs were the last regular faction in that slot before you changed it in the Scenario Editor). Loading through adding the factions to the 'Custom Factions' in the alphax.txt will default to the gaians pics if no changes have been made to the 'namefaction2' and 'namefaction3' graphics.

And while you can load the factions to SMAC - the pirates attributes aren't carried over (eg don't get the mineral from shelf tiles, etc)

So my guess would be it needs to be played on a smax platform.

vitamin j ;

I'll fire you off my last WW01 saved turn with the password

Googlie

	23-10-2001 22:20									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie In the Scenario editor itself you can eliminate factions so that you are left with just the loaded ones...

I tried 'eradicating' various factions from the editor, but they always showed up in my test runs anyway. Hopefully you'll have better luck.

quote: Also you don't need to alter the alphax.txt to get a custom faction in the game if you are using the Scenario Editor (There's a "reload factions" command that lets you drop a faction and add another) In smax's alphax there is an empty section called "Custom factions" - you can load up to six factions there and then when selecting from the game menu for factions in the game these choices appear - also selecting 'random' will let the computer choose from among these as well.

Right. My 'regular' alphax.txt does list the Pirate factions in the custom factions section and it does behave exactly as you say. But I must always have 7 factions when I start a pickup game that way. What Firaxis forgot to put into the faction load screen was an option to select NONE for one or more factions in the 7 faction slots. That would make pure Pirate vs. Pirate or Hive vs. Hive style games much easier.

BTW, it's kinda fun to play a pickup game against the Pirate clone factions from time to time because you get to see the altered dialog for each faction. You don't get to see that in the MP Pirate games, though the new base names do still come into play. Feel free to pass out my Pirate clone TXT files to anyone who wants to play solo against [or with] them.

quote: Using the 'reload factions' command, the leaders' pics that are displayed are the ones that were in the last game you played (so one clone leader might be Aki, if the cyborgs were the last regular faction in that slot before you changed it in the Scenario Editor). Loading through adding the factions to the 'Custom Factions' in the alphax.txt will default to the gaians pics if no changes have been made to the 'namefaction2' and 'namefaction3' graphics.

Yea. This is a niusance bug. Control of faction graphics is via the Alpha Centauri.ini file. There are several cures, but I won't get into the details here.

quote: And while you can load the factions to SMAC - the pirates attributes aren't carried over (eg don't get the mineral from shelf tiles, etc) So my guess would be it needs to be played on a smax platform. Googlie

Thought so. I'll bet it's that AQUATIC=0 [or whatever] faction attribute that tells the terranx.exe engine to give ocean shelf MIN bonuses and start the faction with a sea colony pod in the ocean, etc.

- Scipio

	24-10-2001 00:04									#6
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Short question: what are the pro's/con's of the Pirate variations?

	24-10-2001 00:57									#7
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Let's see how many I can remember.

>Aquatic factions [Pirates are aquatic] start with sea colony pod[s]
>Aquatic factions get 2 unit prototypes free: Sea Colony Pod & Sea Former
>Aquatic factions get +1 mineral bonus in ocean shelf [coastal] tiles
>Aquatic factions can build enhancements [mining platforms/tidal harnesses] in ocean and ocean trench tiles after learning AdvEcolEng
>Pirates are -1 efficiency & -1 growth
>Pirates get 2 free techs: DocMob & DocFlex
>Pirates get free Naval Yards in every base after learning DocInit
>Pirates get free Marine detachments on every combat boat after learning AdapDoc

- Scipio

Last edited by Scipio Centaurus on 24-10-2001 at 01:14

	24-10-2001 01:51									#8
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I'm in.

	24-10-2001 02:57									#9
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I've lost count but add me if there is a place with the fishes...

	24-10-2001 04:26									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Scipio Centaurus I tried 'eradicating' various factions from the editor, but they always showed up in my test runs anyway. Hopefully you'll have better luck. - Scipio

I think it all depends when you hit the "reset all factions" button (to activate their SE settings). If you make this the last thing that you do before signing off on the scenario it'll re-instate the eliminated factions. (If you just don't give them a colony pod they'll become the famous "phantom factions" that will deny anyone a council election 'cos the commlinks can never be had)

So I always now make the "eliminate factions" the last thing I do pre save. That way I never get more in my scenarios than I want.

G.

	24-10-2001 04:31									#11
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Well. by my count we have 4 confirmed:

vitamin j
Scipio Centaurus
Hobbes
SITS

with M@ni@c posing a question.

M@ni@c, if you'd like to join I can add one of my clones to Scipio's 3 plus the original pirates and you can have a five-player game. I'll start the mapping and placements pending your response.

Pirates Galore will soon be underway.

G.

	24-10-2001 06:23									#12
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Hmm... This game sounds like a lot of fun. I certainly don't want to slow down the game by trying to turn it into a six player game.

However, if M@ni@c doesn't want to participate, I would like to be the fifth Pirate (if the original four don't mind expanding to five players). I can assure you that I am good for at least a turn a day, so I should be able to keep up the pace.

	24-10-2001 07:57									#13
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I'm not sure I followed the setting up of the game but an idea that strikes me is why not have the factions not being played by humans set up on a single land square that way they won't play any big part in the game.

	24-10-2001 10:07									#14
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If you guys wind up w/o a player, I'd like in.
I'm sorta desperate to pick up another game.
Indra
Black Sunrise
indra@blacksunrise.com
PS, the fireaxis people made 7 player games on purpose. It has to do with game theory. 7 people will never agree on anything, therefore there will always be dissent and trouble. Makes for a fun game.

	24-10-2001 10:14									#15
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We actually have seven pirate and clone factions, so if you guys would like a 7-human game I can set that up (my experience - and I'm in five 7-human games - is that they go really slow if all seven aren't dedicated to the game. In 2 of my games I see a trun about every ten days, so we'll still be playing them in 2004 at this rate. One of my five turns pretty regularly, no less frequently than once a week unles someone is ill or on vacation without a substitute arranged.

G.

	24-10-2001 10:22									#16
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I would rather have two games of four if possible. I'm playing in two 7 player games and they are quite slow and I'm looking for something to get my teeth into...

	24-10-2001 10:23									#17
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Any game over 4 players must have a mod, with passwords, and must have dedicated players. Posting to the board and emailing all players cc when a move is played is essential.
Personally, while I had problems 8 months ago playing, these days I play my moves about 8-10 hours after they come in, at most, which makes moves pretty timely.
Indra
Black Sunrise

	24-10-2001 17:02									#18
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I would rather not have a 7 player game either. It's hard enough to get good turn-around with 4 people. So my vote is to set up another game.

	24-10-2001 20:37									#19
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OK - 2 sets of 4 it is then

Pirates Galore 1:

vitamin j
Scipio Centaurus
Hobbes
SITS

Pirates Galore 2:

M@ni@c
Black Sunrise
Qantaga
TBA (I've e-mailed a couple of the usual suspects)

I'll get PG1 cranked out today

Googlie

	24-10-2001 22:00									#20
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Googlie,

If your usual suspects haven't replied yet, I'll take the last slot in PG2.

	25-10-2001 01:42									#21
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D:

haven't heard from either of them (but neither has M@ni@c confirmed his participation) so I'd say the probability is high that you'll be in it

G.

	25-10-2001 02:37									#22
	Put an end to popups!

I'm ready and waiting.
I reiterate my desire that we definately have a moderator, though.
First of all, it would allow us to maintain passwords, second, it would help if someone needs to take a week off for something, and third, it would allow rules clarifications (ever get half way into a game and wonder "that's a neat trick. Can I do it, or is it cheating?" Well, if you ask the whole group, they know exactly what you are doing. Having a mod allows you to check that w/o giving away the secret). Just a few thoughts,
Indra
Black Sunrise

	25-10-2001 03:56									#23
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Uhm, I'm pretty sure Googlie's gonna moderate this one...

	25-10-2001 05:13									#24
	Put an end to popups!

Ahoy mateys! I bow to Deimos who replied first.

I think I am already in enough PBEMs anyway. But my two player game is stalled, so if I don't hear from Alinestra soon, I'll be one game below my quota.

	25-10-2001 05:17									#25
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How about instead of calling the games Pirates Galore we instead name them The Clone Wars?

	25-10-2001 05:34									#26
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quote: Originally posted by RedFred Ahoy mateys! I bow to Deimos who replied first.

Returns RedFred's gallant bow with a grandiose doffing of my gaudy, feather bedecked tri-corn.

If you join this great piratical endeavor, will you be changing your nick to RedBeard?

	25-10-2001 06:40									#27
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quote: Originally posted by RedFred so if I don't hear from Alinestra soon .....

Talking of whom, has anyone heard from Alinestra Covelia since she went to NY (pre Sept 11th, which is why I ask)

Googlie

	25-10-2001 07:12									#28
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quote: Originally posted by SITS How about instead of calling the games Pirates Galore we instead name them The Clone Wars?

I wholeheartedly concur!
Indra
Black Sunrise
(polishing up the hull on our scout ship now)

	25-10-2001 10:44									#29
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Off topic, but I did finally hear from Allie after 9/11. I was also concerned because she is living in NY. Niether her nor family or her close friends were near WTC.

RedBeard. I like it. Coincidently, my beard used to come in red. Now my nick should be GrayBeard.

	25-10-2001 18:20									#30
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Oh darn. It seems I lost my spot since I'm not often at the internet. So all the factions are all exactly the same Scipio, right? From some post I assumed it were variations of the Pirates.