25-10-2001 21:20									#1
	new SMAX PBEM game? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

hi, all! i've never played a PBEM game before and would like to give it a try, if anyone is willing to participate.

since i am NOT an expert player, it would be great to get other non-experts in this. i generally play on thinker level and am working up to trancend, so i'm not a beginner or anything. but i'd like to play against people who are at a similar level so it's challenging and fun for everyone.

i'm flexible about map size, but i'd rather not play a tiny or supersized map. i'd prefer lots of water. i usually make everything else average, but i'm flexible about that too.

as for factions, i'd rather not have aliens or pirates in this since i think it would make the game unbalanced. i don't know which faction i'd like to be right now - i guess it depends on what other people want to be.

it would be nice to get in a turn a day (i think this is standard, right?) but i don't want anyone mad if someone takes a little longer. i'd like to keep this fairly casual.

since i don't really know what i'm doing here, i'd REALLY appreciate anyone's help who has experience with setting up PBEM games. i don't know how this works. sorry for being such a MP newbie, but i've been wanting to try a PBEM for a long time and i figure why not go for it!

any takers? and any input & help in setting this up would be EXCELLENT.

thanks! hopefully i'll hear from someone soon!

	25-10-2001 22:52									#2
	Put an end to popups!

BH:

I'd be happy to set it up for you, assign passwords and generally CMN the game.

I bumped a couple of other threads where new games were being offered.

Googlie

	25-10-2001 22:59									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

We also need a replacement at ASPK (so far only 2110) but the game is SMAC and there is only two faction to choose from. My experience is that it's better to start in several PBEM at once, if you are new, to get the hang of it right away. Also the early turns could be murderous slow if the players involved doesn't play turns often enough. Anyway, you're welcome to join us.

	26-10-2001 01:44									#4
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googlie - thanks a bunch! i guess that if/when people respond, we can work it out. i have a friend who wants to be in it, but she's not registered here, so she can't post. i told her i'd let her know when we have some stuff figured out.

knowhow2 - i can be a replacement player, i guess! what do i have to do? which factions are available, and how does this work? what info do you need from me?

	26-10-2001 01:56									#5
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If you need another replacement player, I'm up.
indra@blacksunrise.com
Any faction. Any faction at all.
Indra
Black Sunrise

	26-10-2001 02:09									#6
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it looks like the university and the gaians are our choices. if it's ok, i would like to be the gaians!

my e-mail is kazzmaj@aol.com.

i take it that i'd be e-mailed the password and the game file, take my turn and pass it on? who would it get passed to?

like i said, sorry i don't know what i'm doing.

	26-10-2001 02:22									#7
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Okey then, we back in buisness! Lets see. Bella Hella will get the password to Gaians and Black Sunrise the password for UoP. We haven't been using the tournement rules so far but I guess for the simplicity of it we should (except for the contacting eachother part which we already have established) So Bella Hella, you probably should have a look at the Rules and "faq" (look top left just beneit the APOLYTON logo) click it and try to find Tournement Rules and "Simple way to play PBEM" where you gets the instructions how to zip and unzip turns receiving turns and sending them after you played thema. Let me know if you have any other question I be here at least 4-5 more hours)

I'll send an email to Tau and informed him so that he can send you the passwords. It can take a day or two. Glad to have you both onboard! See you at ASPK.

	26-10-2001 03:06									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

knowhow2 - i'm sorry, but i can't find the PBEM rules in the FAQ. can you help me out?

can't wait to get my turn!!!

	26-10-2001 03:24									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Erm, I couldn't find the PBEM rules either.



Also, I really prefer roleplaying, if anyone else feels up to it. If not, I guess I'll understand...


Indra
Black Sunrise

	26-10-2001 03:54									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I couldn't find it either Haven't read it in awhile.

I'm gonna ask a friend where it is. I'll be back.

	26-10-2001 03:56									#11
	Support Apolyton

The inter-forum rules developoed for the Forum Wars tourney is the latest set of generally accepted rules:

> Communications - none till contact, obtain commlink, or build EG

> Total freedom in Design Workshop (upgrades anytime, during turn or on-field)

> Retro-engineering - OK, except for using the probe rover chassis before discovery of Doc. Mobility

> SE switches "quickies" forbidden - (obviously you can experiment to see what effect various SE choices have, but cannot change, play moves, then change back in the same turn just to gain the benefit of a temporary SE choice)

> Council notification - immediate broadcast to all players (Post in the thread and e-mail to all immediately by player who has called elections, citing candidates and votes. After each player's turn, post in the thread the running totals)

> Stockpiling in Build Queues OK at any time

> Crawlers Upgrade anytime - OK

> Probe actions: Must choose vendetta option when probing other players

> Using the AI - Cannot use the AI to bribe on coucil votes nor to demand withdrawal of units

> Demon boil mindworm creation - forbidden (setting multiple waypoints for a faction mindworm in fungus to generate a wild demon boil to kill or capture each turn)

> Infinite-range drop troops - forbidden before building the Space Elevator (i.e. bans the use of the right hand mouse click to make multiple 8-square moves in the same turn)

> Multiple reloads of the game are forbidded (without posting a convincing explanation to the other players) - guards against the obvious cheat of trying multiple times for a different result in pod popping or combat.

That's about them - the latter three are are generally considered as egregious cheats, whereas the earlier ones are more game engine interpretation rules

Googlie

Last edited by Googlie on 27-10-2001 at 02:24

	26-10-2001 04:25									#12
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Thanx Googlie!

	26-10-2001 05:05									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

The original rules are here http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...ournament+rules

The ones googlie posted seem to differ from Tau's "tournament rules in that

1. Design workshop was not permitted to upgrade units prior to their use.

2. It was NOT permitted to use the stocpile energy bug by inserting it after your builds

If this is generally accepted as changed, I missed it. I know that a lot of players like to permit these but I had seen nothing that changed the tournament rules in the above thread. I can play either way but its niceif everyone is playing with the same set of rules.

	26-10-2001 05:16									#14
	Support Apolyton

Official tourney rules haven't changed.

These 2 mods are (in my experience) the generally accepted variances now being adopted for non-tourney games. I know the last dozen or so that I have set up have been with the above noted exceptions to the tourney rules.

G.

	26-10-2001 06:38									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

Googlie

AS you say these are acceptable variations but I just wanted to be clear that they have not yet been accepted as the "tournament rules" which tau uses . I noticed that in games you set up, as recently as AXT055 and AXT056 you provided the tournament rules using the same link that I did. (forbidding the two items above).

Thanks for making it clear. I really don't think its a big deal which variation is used (although I dislike allowing upgrades) as long as everyone knows what is going on.

	26-10-2001 18:54									#16
	Remove this text

I am also now to PBEM, but I am looking to set up or join a game soon. I can play at any level, though I generally play thinker. SMAC or SMAX are fine, though I like SMAC better, it seems more balanced. I'm not fussy about settings, except I prefer to avoid the settings that favour one faction over another. My email is nickist@home.com.

	26-10-2001 19:10									#17
	new PBEM game still offered! Get a bigger avatar today!

thanks, everybody, for all the help! i appreciate the info. i think i have a much better idea of what's going on here, and i have officially taken my first turn in a PBEM game (exciting!).

i'd like to get back into the original message of the thread - new PBEM game! the original offer still stands (see my first message for details and stuff).

arborman - if you'd like to be a player, awesome! i want to stick with SMAX if that's ok because of the variety of factions to choose from (and because i enjoy playing those factions ). i know what you mean about settings that favor certain factions, so we'll keep native life on average and not include the pirates or aliens. sound good?

uhm, and how many more players should we get? i think it would be cool to have 4 human players.

	26-10-2001 22:05									#18
	Greetings Bella Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm interested in the game you mentioned in the first thread...but like you, I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, so you'll have to let me know the details when you figure them out.

Adieu

"you talk to me like i'm an infant"

	26-10-2001 22:14									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

right on, another player!

MD - you just totally weirded me out with your quote, but i just read your e-mail... and i know who you are!!!!!!

and i know where you live, too.

so there's me, arborman and master devlin. perhaps we should see if we can get one more player and then start it up?

also, what factions would you guys like to be?

	26-10-2001 22:36									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Master Devlin:

can you just send me an e-mail to:

linfrew@aol.com

so that I have your e-mail addy for sending out passwords, etc. (I also have a play-by-e-mail primer that I'll send you on the protocols for playing by e-mail, special diplomacy screens etc)

Googlie

	26-10-2001 22:52									#21
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

So, some start up decisions:

Difficulty level? - BH suggested Thinker level in the opening thread, and I think that's a good choice

AI or no AI? - again, with 4 human players having an untweaked AI can be fun - easy tech steals and conquest - I'll give the AI some strategy thru the editor, but won't be strong as it is in some games where i have set up a master/submissive relationship

Factions to play: You have suggested no Pirates or Aliens - good move. PKs, Gaians and Hive are always good factions, as are Drones and Consciousness. Cult, Morgan and Believers are tough in multiplay situations. Uni and Sparta are OK factions. I've not seen many PBEMs where Roze has been played well, although in a couple where she is an AI faction she's doing OK even without the crawlers that the AI never builds

Worldsize: Standard or large (not a lot of difference between them) will give you a few years of isolation before you make contact. 50% to 70% water is the default for maps of planet (and Earth falls into this category). Average everything else I'd suggest.

Custom game rules: With 4 players, to avoid a 3 on 1 ganging up, I'd suggest turning off co-operative victory. I'd put directed research on, spoils of war on and turn off random events (the game's way of knocking you down a peg when yopu are too far ahead in single-play games - prolly unfair in multiplay where you want to reward infrastructure and energy credits build up)

Gameplay rules: I suggest my list that appears earlier in this thread. Not quite Tau Ceti's tourney rules - less restrictive - but more in line with the other 2 forums and the non-tourney games in this forum.

Anything else? (except for that 4th player)

Googlie

	27-10-2001 01:07									#22
	startup decisions Remove this text

googlie - here are my thoughts on settings:

level: thinker (or librarian if i get word that that's preferred)

ai: yes! 4 humans and 3 ais. or, if no 4th player, 3 humans and 4 ais.

factions: human players can be anything except aliens or pirates. i've decided i'd like to play the conciousness. we can see what others would like to be, and we can leave out the cult, morgans and believers (unless a human player wants to be one of these).

map: large would be a good choice. i was thinking 70-90% water to give everyone a good chance of getting their own continent. does this seem reasonable, or do you think it would be uncool since there's also a chance of starting on a dinky island? you obviously have more experience with MP games than i do, so if it would be better to have 50-70%, that's ok by me. average everything else.

i agree whole-heartedly with the custom rules you suggested.

the general rules make sense to me, except for the "declare vendetta if you want to probe someone" option. shouldn't you be able to probe others, and then they have the option of declaring war if they get mad? also, let's say i want to send a probe team to infiltrate someone's datalinks or something. would i first call them to declare war?!?!? LOL.... "hello, zak? hi, how you doin'? that's nice.... listen, i'm real sorry, but i'm gonna have to declare vendetta on you. i know, i know, me neither, but i want to infiltrate your datalinks."

i don't know how this usually works in MP. can you explain?

thanks so much for your help!

	27-10-2001 02:23									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

BH:

The map specs really aren't that important (re % water) asd I can always tu=inker with the map thru the scenario editor to ensure that no-one starts on dinky island. It's really how much do you want to play with land bases rather than sea bases that's dictated by the diff between the 50-70% and the 70-90% coverage. The latter slows the game down as it takes longer to build sea bases or to move land colony pods by transport to finad another island to plop it on.

re the "declare vendetta" rule - there's a programming bug in the PBEM protocols that gives the option to the prober instead of the probee.

In SP games, when you are probed, you have the choices of:

> ignore and be probed
> interrogate the probe team then return them unharmed
> declare vendetta and destroy the team

in multiplay games it the faction doing the probing that is given this message

So the generally accepted PBEM convention is to declare vendetta before initiating the probe action unless prior approval has been given. (e.g. - If it is a pactmate (let's say you want to steal a tech during sunspot activity) you therefore would lose the commerce income for the duration of the sunspot activity unless you'd cleared in advance that this was acceptable during such periods)

Of course, wily PBEM veterans will sometimes just declare vendetta out of the blue, and then you become paranoid that you've been probed .....

You'll have gathered that probe activity is a huge part of PBEM gaming (which makes the Empath Guild and being Governor much sought after)

G.

	27-10-2001 02:32									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

What's teh deal with stockpile energy after a military unit?
I never understood this one...
Indra

	27-10-2001 02:33									#25
	The game Tired of ads?

I'd love to get into this game. My only concern: Spoils of War favours the warlike factions. I like playing Uni and it definitely doesn't favour them, since it makes them a target (low on tech, take a couple Uni cities) However, if it is a must I'll simply play something else. nickist@home.com. Let me know when we start,
arborman

	27-10-2001 04:13									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

arborman - we can turn off spoils of war. as aki, i get techsteal when conquering a base anyway and will hopefully be doing all right techwise even without it.

groovy.

googlie - about the probe team vendetta option - that's weird! since i've never played MP before i didn't know about that. guess i'll have to get used to it! i was just envisioning calling someone up and informing them that i was randomly declaring war and thought it was pretty funny. probably just me.

map: if we can make sure the map setup is fair, then i have no problem with less water.

who else is in? we could still use a 4th player! then we'll be ready to go.

	27-10-2001 04:30									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm in.
Any faction.
indra@blacksunrise.com


Indra
ps, I roleplay

	27-10-2001 07:12									#28
	Got spare money?

re the stockpile energy situation (also applies to single player games):

when you have it in the build queue after a military unit (or top of the queue when building one) the game engine uses enough minerals to complete the unit then gives you the whole mineral value converted to energy for that turn.

example: say you are building a whatsit, and it needs 22 minerals to complete (44 energy) and your base produces 18 minerals per turn (36 energy). without stockpile in the queue, you partially hurry build (costs 8 energy) and your whatsit is completed next turn with no minerals carried foreward and no energy credit. With stockpile in the queue, you pay your 8, and then get the whatsit completed next turn plus the full value for that base as if you had been stockpiling energy all along (36 minus your inefficiency losses)

Advantage to using stockpile in the queue is that you don't end up overproducing whatsits when the need for them has long gone (mostly just befoe signing off on the turn, hit the F2 screen and checjk that no bases have stockpile in the production slot. Big help when you have fifty or sixty bases)

So we have 4 players - OK - I'll get to setting up the game - still need Master Devlin's e-mail addy

Googlie

Googlie

	27-10-2001 18:00									#29
	Put an end to popups!

cool! let's do it!

so far i still want to be aki. the rest of you ill-tempered humans still have to choose your factions.

googlie - i'll e-mail you master devlin's address. i know it'll be ok - i've known master devlin for a long time.

black sunrise - thanks for "signing up"! hopefully it'll be a good game! re: roleplaying - you mean in communications with each other, getting into the character and not saying "dude," etc.? i like that idea. please forgive me for being a total MP newbie, but that IS what you mean, correct?

peace (for now)

	27-10-2001 18:06									#30
	Increase Your PM Length

Check out "Turns of Roleplay" here in the MP forum for an incredible example of roleplaying.
I'm not that good at writing, but
"turn sent, nothing new"
just doesn't strike me as being as interesting as:
"This year, our people focused on growth, as we expect a population increase in our major city. Our other city, pit of workers hell, continues to be a less than popular vacation resort. Perhaps we shall turn it into a penal colony"

I don't require it, but boy does it make things more interesting!
Indra
Black Sunrise
(googlie, you can just pick a faction for me out of a hat, or whatever you think would be interesting with the other players. Factions I don't like will just be a challenge)