30-10-2001 13:23									#61
	negativity = attention galore Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

"And if I can admit that you can definitely say something good about Civ3"
There's a flaw in your theory, Simpleton. It is nearly impossible for a negative poster to say something good about a subject in question, because to do so would make them sound like most everyone else on the board, and to sound like everyone else would prevent them from being the center of attention.
Case in point: if you post a positive statement, one or two people acknowledge it but your post is quickly forgotten, but post a negative statement and you've got people responding to your post for the next 3 hours...a very ego-gratifying situation indeed...

	30-10-2001 13:35									#62
	Got spare money?

quote: Well, there you have it. Imran insulting people again.

I'm just less subtle at it than you are (and I don't try to be subtle about it as well). Such as:

Show me where I psychoanalyze somebody just to put words in their mouths.

That is a very subtle insult, of course GP doesn't care.

quote: You mean I haven't been brown-nosing?

You haven't seemed to care about Civ3. Just pointing out negatives.

quote: Wow. That's lame. First, EU at least had the developers working hard to get player feedback in an OPEN and PUBLIC way. That goes a long way in my book.

That is all it takes? Well, since you seem so fond of bringing up 'The List', let me do it. Firaxis, in an open and public way tried to get player feedback, through 'the List' and the 'EC', and then took things from it that they wanted.

quote: And HELL EARTH TO IMRAN: I wasn't involved with EU from the beginning like I was with Civ3...get it?

Neither were you with SMAC or CtP2. What are your arguments for your crusades against them (especially SMAC). You've seemingly contradicted yourself.

quote: Sure. That's air-tight right there.

Sure seems that way, doesn't it?

	30-10-2001 13:35									#63
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Lets keep in mind Civ3 is NOT a new gaming concept.
This is a game that is supposed to IMPROVE on what came
before it....!!!
The 2 reviews I've seen so far only stated what was new,
not that they really liked or enjoyed those changes and then raised some serious gaming issues, some new and some that previousily existed..!!
Yet both gave it high marks.. 4 out 5 stars.. and a 9.3
I find that preplexing...
Once again, I'll buy it.. but I do not like what I'm reading so
far...

	30-10-2001 13:36									#64
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

To my opinion MP is VERY VERY important but only after some time you have played the game in singel player mode.
PBEM is the most needed MP option in a turn based game like civ3!!!

	30-10-2001 13:43									#65
	Remove this text

quote: a very ego-gratifying situation indeed

Ah, more cheap pscyhobable. Read the two years of posts on this forum and get back to me.

quote: "Show me where I psychoanalyze somebody just to put words in their mouths." That is a very subtle insult, of course GP doesn't care.

This is your problem: You don't understand what's an insult and what isn't.

quote: Firaxis, in an open and public way tried to get player feedback, through 'the List' and the 'EC', and then took things from it that they wanted.

Correction: BRIAN REYNOLDS asked publically. Oh, but he left...and so did much of any public recognition of fan efforts. Wait, there was mention of 'some site on the Internet.'

quote: Neither were you with SMAC or CtP2.

My work on the SMAC patch 4.0 speaks for itself. As for CtP, now you are being a hypocrite. You can't stand the CtP games and you know it. I went after CtP because: It was a rip-off of Civ and it was an insult to every TBSer everywhere. Clear?

	30-10-2001 13:47									#66
	Inflate your Upload Space

You guys need to stop worrying, the game will be good. If there are some aspects which are LESS than good, mod makers will take care of that.

	30-10-2001 13:53									#67
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: This is your problem: You don't understand what's an insult and what isn't.

Rather I call it a jab (which is basically an insult)? It definetly was a backhanded comment. We'll come back to this down below.

quote: Correction: BRIAN REYNOLDS asked publically. Oh, but he left...and so did much of any public recognition of fan efforts. Wait, there was mention of 'some site on the Internet.'

You paraquote wrongly again to advance your POV. IIRC, Jeff Morris mentioned they got some ideas from some fansites. You fail to realize that CivFanatics also had a list. If they said Apolyton, it wouldn't sit well with those on the other sites with Lists of their own. And can you even fathom that on an interview on ANOTHER site they'd edit any mention of other sites (not saying they did this, but it is possible).

quote: My work on the SMAC patch 4.0 speaks for itself.

But that doesn't answer the question. It dealt with the quote:

I wasn't involved with EU from the beginning like I was with Civ3...get it?

Working on 4.0 patch means you weren't there from the beginning (obviously). So how does your statement answer my question?

quote: As for CtP, now you are being a hypocrite.

As above... jab, insult? Whatever you call it, taking a swipe at me, seeing as... (below)

quote: You can't stand the CtP games and you know it. I went after CtP because: It was a rip-off of Civ and it was an insult to every TBSer everywhere. Clear?

...Your premise seemed to be that you could ***** at Civ3 because you were there at the beginning (unlike with EU). So from that logic, you could conclude that you don't take swipes at a game unless you were there at the beginning. However, you say you took on CtP for something different?

So why couldn't you take on EU's flaws now? Seeing as you CAN take on games even though you weren't there at the beginning (as you've just proved).

So, how does it make me a hypocrite when I question a claim you made that doesn't seem to jive with the evidence?

	30-10-2001 13:54									#68
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

yin you know i like you....your post even made it to my sig
i know you are trying to make a point, but ...just relax

	30-10-2001 13:59									#69
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: You fail to realize that CivFanatics also had a list. If they said Apolyton, it wouldn't sit well with those on the other sites with Lists of their own.

You fail to realize: Mention BOTH sites!

quote: So how does your statement answer my question?

Involved from the beginning = 'involved.' I wasn't involved in EU and found, for the most part, that they were doing a good job with the fans and made (once I really tried to work though the upfront problems) a good game. CtP was because of my previous reason.

In the end, it matters ZERO what you think of my motives. Lord fear the day I think "What will Imran say?" before I post! LOL! And your entire firxation on why I get involved with one game and not the other is rather funny.

quote: yin you know i like you....your post even made it to my sig i know you are trying to make a point, but ...just relax

Yes, I plan to. Thanks. Honestly, the few key things I've seen in the reviews made some things very clear. I'm heading out of the office now and will consider when will be a good point to rejoin these conversations ...

	30-10-2001 14:05									#70
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: You fail to realize: Mention BOTH sites!

Why doesn't he mention EVERY site which gave him an idea . Unfeasible. And it would look interesting in an interview: We'd like to thank [insert site here] for giving us ideas. Firstly it'd alienate other fansites, unless ALL were mentioned, and secondly maybe the site doesn't want to advertise for this other site just mentioned.

quote: Involved from the beginning = 'involved.' I wasn't involved in EU and found, for the most part, that they were doing a good job with the fans and made (once I really tried to work though the upfront problems) a good game.

But there were still problems (still are, actually). So, in a certain way it leads to:

quote: And your entire firxation on why I get involved with one game and not the other is rather funny.

It ain't just me. Not anymore. Look at this thread if you want more proof. GP and me have just known you the longest of the skeptics of your motives here .

quote: In the end, it matters ZERO what you think of my motives.

That's nice. Then why do you keep responding to me?

	30-10-2001 14:10									#71
	Tired of ads?

a decent 2000 word review, it seemed like good old steve butts actually played the game but probably more from a "hey cool i got civ 3 lets enjoy this baby" than an "i need to examine each area and make a detailed analysis" not enough reflection on the lows and highs and not enough new info

	30-10-2001 14:10									#72
	Get a bigger avatar today!

By the way, some life advice: You'd do well to not use words like 'insult' and 'jab' when they don't fit.

"END psychoanalysis"

Those were his words. So when I say he was psychoanalyzing me to put words in my mouth ... and I know he's putting words in my mouth because what he describes is not how I feel ...

Then, Imran: You have me making a true statement, not a jab or insult. Now, your problem is when you don't like the truth presented before you, you try to make it into some kind of insult. One only hopes you don't try such thing in 'real life.' Sadly, I have found it a disturbing trend in my 20 somethings that they have almost no concept of what an insult is and how to respond to criticism.

You fit that category.

As for why I reply to you: Because your silliness entertains me.

	30-10-2001 14:20									#73
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

yin
my civ3 copy is currently on its way to NYC and tomorrow it will board a plane in a FedEx package. Then it will fly over the Atlantic Ocean. The miracles of modern transport

Also, Yin - wait until it hits the bargain bin. I must admit I have spent my money on things worse than Civ3 may yet turn out to be in your most catastrophic predictions

	30-10-2001 14:20									#74
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: So when I say he was psychoanalyzing me to put words in my mouth ... and I know he's putting words in my mouth because what he describes is not how I feel ...

Yet, you are saying that he was psychoanalyzing you for the express purpose of putting words into your mouth. He might not have been doing it at all. And thus trying to put down his argument because of it.

I repost again:

Show me where I psychoanalyze somebody just to put words in their mouths.

Basically accusing him of doing this thing often (so it seems from the words put forth). That IS a jab, even if you try to deny it with all your might.

quote: Sadly, I have found it a disturbing trend in my 20 somethings that they have almost no concept of what an insult is and how to respond to criticism. You fit that category.

quote: As for why I reply to you: Because your silliness entertains me.

Jab #1 (and generalization) and Jab #2. Now, interested in seeing you weasel out of it in some unconvincing way.

Why is statement #1 a jab? Because you insinuate, that I, as a 20 something (while generalizing all of them) are ignorant about those issues.

Statement #2? Obvious.

Subtle jabs, just because you don't want to be associated with it, doesn't mean that you don't do it. Doesn't work that way, in real life, as you put it .

	30-10-2001 15:16									#75
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well ...
This is my 1st post in this forum, prolly the last as well.

I am a hardcore gamer. So much that i find it hard to find satisfying game experiences anymore at all.
I am not sure for how long o played Civ2 - the SP edition - it was at least 9months. That is PURE!!! time - something well above 6000 hours.

That is what I call a lasting appeal !

Of course every addiction requests more and better kicks over time. The only way to go for - people like me - is to play MP-games.

Even the best AI can´t compete with any MP.

or better: The game may be poor, MP can make it addictive .

You know what i want to say :

Even if Civ3 SPedition is only merely better than Civ2 i still would buy it if i was below that 9months .

The way it is though, i will have to wait for the MPedition and play AoE or Cossacks till then .

	30-10-2001 15:19									#76
	Remove this text

if you can play cossacks....
i found that game absolutely unplayable dull, boring, derivative

	30-10-2001 15:26									#77
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Also, Yin - wait until it hits the bargain bin. I must admit I have spent my money on things worse than Civ3 may yet turn out to be in your most catastrophic predictions

LOL! Well, that seems to be the way things are looking. Even a cheap $35 LE seems too much at this point. Looks like I'll be checking out the Gold Edition a year from now. Until then, I need to decide if it's worth my time to post here without the game in-hand...

	30-10-2001 15:55									#78
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by korn469 overall i give the review a 4.7, it didn't bring anything new to the table and it didn't offer any real information to make a purchase decision except for

and.....

quote: Originally posted by korn469 a decent 2000 word review, it seemed like good old steve butts actually played the game but probably more from a "hey cool i got civ 3 lets enjoy this baby" than an "i need to examine each area and make a detailed analysis" not enough reflection on the lows and highs and not enough new info

ummm, Korn, are you rating the review? is this your review of the review?

	30-10-2001 17:32									#79
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

[Mistake]

Last edited by GodSpawn on 30-10-2001 at 17:59

	30-10-2001 18:15									#80
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by yin26 LOL! Well, that seems to be the way things are looking. Even a cheap $35 LE seems too much at this point. Looks like I'll be checking out the Gold Edition a year from now. Until then, I need to decide if it's worth my time to post here without the game in-hand...

Let me help: It's not worth your time posting here without the game in hand.

	30-10-2001 19:07									#81
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'm getting so sick and tired of the negative comments about this game. They come mostly from people who haven't played it yet.

Really, if you don't like CIV3 or Firaxis, what are you doing here? Why are you making yourself heard? What are you trying to accomplish here? Do you enjoy feeling resentful all of the time?

Yin: Buy the game and play it. Then, come here and give us your review. Once you've trashed the game at length, get over it and move on. Buy yourself a FPS, join a Korean-Anti-Japanese support group, or attend some anger management courses. Do whatever it takes for you to get yourself re-adjusted, because I come to these forums to enjoy myself, not to listen to this.

If CIV3 sucks, I'll be your first convert, but it will be a cold day in hell before I accept any critism about CIV3 from anyone who's never played the game.

	30-10-2001 19:11									#82
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin I'm getting so sick and tired of the negative comments about this game. They come mostly from people who haven't played it yet. Really, if you don't like CIV3 or Firaxis, what are you doing here? Why are you making yourself heard? What are you trying to accomplish here? Do you enjoy feeling resentful all of the time? Yin: Buy the game and play it. Then, come here and give us your review. Once you've trashed the game at length, get over it and move on. Buy yourself a FPS, join a Korean-Anti-Japanese support group, or attend some anger management courses. Do whatever it takes for you to get yourself re-adjusted, because I come to these forums to enjoy myself, not to listen to this. If CIV3 sucks, I'll be your first convert, but it will be a cold day in hell before I accept any critism about CIV3 from anyone who's never played the game.

he is currently aspleep

	30-10-2001 19:38									#83
	a formal apology Support Apolyton

Yin26: I would like to apologize for my earlier comments... I accused you of being overly negative all the while that I was writing a negative and insulting (to you) post...I truly am sorry.
I may have to stop making comments on these boards...it's just too tempting sometimes to say something nasty in a state of anonymity...
I do believe that you have a right to your own opinion, and that some of your concerns are valid, but I must admit that I still hold high hopes for the game...

	30-10-2001 20:51									#84
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Sigh.

Two of my friends, Imran and yin, are going at it again. I agree with yin on one thing (don't quote me on that ), all Civ games are supposed to be deliberate, taking the time to understand it and to get a real feel for it. I thought there had been alot of noise about Civ3 this year, but that was nothing compared to all of the useless garbage we've seen since Monday. Imran, I have said the same pyschobabble about yin in the past ("feeling cheated because he couldn't get Firaxis to make the game revolutionary"), but it's just more of a fun thing to say.

yin, as mentioned in the other forum on your thread, I have been assigned to write a three-part review of Civ3 (manual, tutorial, regular game) in the forum of game critics. The first two parts will be done in a week but the regular game review won't be done until mid to end November. Anything less should be taken with a grain of salt, imo.

	31-10-2001 00:32									#85
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Yin: Buy the game and play it. Then, come here and give us your review. Once you've trashed the game at length, get over it and move on. Buy yourself a FPS, join a Korean-Anti-Japanese support group, or attend some anger management courses. Do whatever it takes for you to get yourself re-adjusted, because I come to these forums to enjoy myself, not to listen to this.

Well said Jason, and Yin, before you start to bash, remember Jason had a very dedicated SMAC site (the best, IMO), and left it because SMAC was going in a direction he didn't like. And never bashed it, even though he put in so much time into the site.

Steve:

Don't you know Yin and I ALWAYS go at it with each other . This is a 3 year thing, man!

	31-10-2001 01:02									#86
	Full PM-box? Change here!

What is most confusing here is, I do not understand what Yin's purpose is.......

Taking a step back and ignoring all past histories, this is what appears:

1) Yin has not and will not purchase the game
2) Yin will ONLY post the negative elements in an OVERWHELMINGLY positive review

The combination of these two things really do not seem to add up. What is hoped to be accomplished? To convert the unwashed heathen into the light?

Yin, you are going to have to accept the fact that this is a Pro-Civ3 forum. People are brought here because of their LOVE of the game. My recomendation (echoing others) is to let it go. Obviously, whatever hopes/dreams/asperations that you had for Civ 3 will not be realized.......... find something else.

	31-10-2001 01:40									#87
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Why are you posting here Yin? To point out all the flaws in Civ3 so they can be fixed? If so that's great but no other explanation makes sense at the moment.

	31-10-2001 03:06									#88
	Put an end to popups!

Cool off people. Give it a few weeks and the dust will settle. We'll see how good the AI is and find out a few loop holes by then.

	31-10-2001 06:23									#89
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Everything this guy (yin26) has been posting in the last days or weeks is nothing but rubbish, upsetting people totally WITHOUT any experience of civ3. An absolute waste of space.
I'm sorry, I've been quiet, just reading, and reading, but it's just too much. Some guy's computer has trouble scrolling the map and yin26 just assumes the problem is in the game and panics? Ridiculous. I wonder if the game had gotten a 7.0 review...?
Fortunately after Nov.16 people will be too excited playing civ3 and will leave him complaining about a game which, at that point, he will probably be the only one to NOT have played it. Now that's sad...

	31-10-2001 10:17									#90
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yin 26 was a major contributor to Civ III through modding this site for a couple of years. So shut up.