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Falconius
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Pleasant Hills, PA
May 2001
time: 00:15
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WWI and WWII scenarios are not possible with the editor for three very simple reasons:
1. Starting locations are ALWAYS random. So you can't place the Russians in Russia, for instance.
2. Maps ALWAYS wrap around (no European scenarios unless you don't mind the ability to move from Moscow to Portugal by going east!)
3. You can't create cities, only starting locations.
4. You can't place units on the map.
All of these were possible using the old Civ II editor, for crying out loud! I regret having to say this, but I'm hugely disappointed in this editor.
Last edited by Falconius on 01-11-2001 at 20:38
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TechWins
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Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:15
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The game without a doubt was rushed. In fact is easily noticalbe that Civ3 has been rushed. Now the game is still good, but too many advertised and expected features have been left out. Just moments ago I sent a message to Firaxis in hopes that the questions I had will be answered. I feel that my questions are very important for reassurance upon the public and need to be answered.
quote:
Now many features that were advertised for Civ3 have not been included. Such as a scenario editor (no possibility for scenario creation yet), MP (hopefully coming at least in the Spring), and other features that were not mentioned by you (Firaxis) but were expected to be in the but have been left out. Such features as having many 'zoom in & out' levels (currently two for the regular game play & one for the game editor) for the regular game play and game editor. Many 'bugs' have also been reported for the game, which is expected. Honestly though, I didn't expect the game to be lacking this many features and included this many bugs. With that being said in all good intent, I was wondering what the future is for patches? Will you only be fixing 'bugs' in patches? Will you only be adding other features, such as scenario editing capabilities? Will you be doing both of those tasks? Also, when is the first patch expected to come out. If all possible could you explain what the hopes (included aspects) for the first patch will be and others after that? Even though, you were expecting a question on MP I will restrain my comments for a later time.[wink] One last question (sorry for the redundancy of questions), will you be looking for suggestions on (such as my request for more 'zoom in & out' levels) added features that would be very minor to the game but improve the overall game? |
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hardjoy
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Odense, Denmark
May 2001
time: 06:15
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Hey, everybody, chill out... They're working on it... 
Put yourself in their shoes. Everybody ever tried making something creative know the pressure from the people who want to see the final result, the moneymakers, who want the return on their investments, and the bankiers, who won't allow you to draw any more cash out of that already drained account.
So you gotta work fast. You still gotta do good, but you gotta do fast. It's not easy to mobilize the guts to stand steadfast on "I'm gonna keep working and polishing until I AM satisfied with it" -so it gets released a little prematurely. I wouldn't worry, since this game is being heavily supported by Firaxis, unlike so many other products which are largely left unsupported once they're out the door.
I believe they should have spoken up about it, but apparently they didn't, because of moneymaking concerns from the publishers. Which is too bad. But not so bad, that all the world falls apart.
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KhanMan
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Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:15
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Friends, Apolytoners, Countrymen, take heart! 
Remember that civ3 was released under a week ago. I am sure Firaxis will fix these problems, given time.
I, for one, remember the greedy bastards in charge behind the Call to Power series, and I am glad to know that Firaxis, which DOES support programs in stead of publishing and dropping like Hasbro, is behind Civ3.
(side note, the first CtP is a piece of crap, and the programmers get their just deserts: it's availible for order for a mere $5.95 shipping from an Apolyton advertiser
Just thought I should let any wandering programmers know that at least one Apolytoner is happy with the job that has been done at Firaxis, and confident that problems can be fixed and features added.
Til then, I'm back to playing a great game of single player random, the way we did it back in the civ1 days
Regards,
-KhanMan
King of the Greeks
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PeterI
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These people dared to spoil the legend of gaming.
Firaxis did the same thing as Activision and Sid Meiers did nothing to prevent it from happening!
I have played civilization since it had been released. I played on Atari, PC, Sega Genesis. I played Civ, Civ2, Civ2MGE, CivTOT. I have spent thousand of hours on it.
Finally, after being hugely disappointed with Activisions Call to Power, I have been waiting for Civ3 for more than a year. Under no other circumstances, would I have said anything bad even about the word Civilization.
HOWEVER, now that the game is released, and I have spent 60$ on the collectors edition (of coarse money does not count in cases like this and I do not want to be reimbursed) , I am realizing that these people removed all the things (although some might call them small details) that made the simple Civ2 and even, possibly, Civ infinitely better than Activision's Call to Power and Sid Meiyers Alpha Centaury combined.
What are the these things?
-Infinite replayability due to virually unlimited scenario creating possibilities
- Historic accuracy, made possible by decent world maps and accurate starting positions.
Even the world map from Civ was decent. The world maps that come with Civ3 are horryfying. On the huge map, England is a small chunck of forest above a shady peace of land that, I suppose, we should call Europe?! Come on! Madagascar is twice is big as England? And Japon? Guys you will lough! Three times bigger?
There are no rivers in Europe. Rhine, Rhone, Danube, Thames? What the hell is wrong? Spain is covered with forests. Ha, Ha, Ha.
Whatever. I do not care. Really. There are lots of qualified people out there who dedicate hundreds of hours of their lives to making Civ better. We all owe these people at least as much as to the creators of the original Civilization. Captain Nemo, Alex the Magnificent, John Petroski, Michael Jeszenka to name just a few undeniable authorities in the civilzation community.
We do not care about the maps. Just give us the tools, the platform and we'll take care of ourselves.
Is not that simple? Yes or no?
I guess it is not. These people spoiled a great game by not incluing all the good stuff that made the legend of Civ2.
I cannot play Civ3 right now. I am just too pissed off. I cannot play on a real world map with random starting places. That's impossible.
I can play on a random map, but it does not have the same charm.
It can be argued that I am making a big deal out of nothing. It is true that Civ3 remains a great game and there are lots of new great ideas, such as elite units and leaders, strategic resources, culture. Yes!
But if I cannot play WW2 scenarios I am not going to play at all. I have played so many times on random maps and went through the technology tree, that the minor changes in technologies and the effects of wonders are not going to lure me. My plan was to play a full game once on a huge world map just to get the feel of the new details and the interface and then to start making scenarios in the editor. This plan is screwed.
The dowline is: Util the game is fixed I am going to stick to CivTOT.
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PeterI
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By the way, KhanMan, in Civ1 it was possible to start on the world map with real locations.
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Akillias
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i think the civ 2 editor was better than that at least there was a map
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Peter Triggs
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Gone Fishin, Canada
Jan 2000
time: 05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
there are a lot of features I like and I want to say 'wow, this could be a really great game......after A LOT of modding'
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This is exactly why some of us were attracted to CTP2. And there, especially through the use of SLIC, you could make some INCREDIBLE modifications to the game.
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MustPost
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quote:
MustPost: you're looking at what they call a 'Mercator projection' which exaggerates the Northern and Southern hemispheres... |
Are you saying in civ3 thats what they used or thats what the map I looked at used?
I don't remember all the different kind of maps from geography class anymore. but I took those figures from an encyclopedia not a map.
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PeterI
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On my map, England and Madagascar are about the same. But for the gameplay purposes, they should either make Britain larger than it is in real life or make the whole map, including Madagascar bigger to make Britain playable.
OK, you might be right for Madagascar from strictly the geographic point of view. But what will you say about Japan, which is huge compared to England?
But anyway, that is not the point. How many people in this thread would disagree that the huge world map is incredibly poor?
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MustPost
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yup, nothing like being the english and storming the beaches of normandy with your archeres, chariots, and legions. Finally, breaking into Paris and gaining 4 wonders, only to lose it 2 turn later. Then gaining it back in another 20.
Or being the french and ruthlesly attacking the Germans through those dang jungles and forests.
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