01-11-2001 10:30									#1
	...perhaps Firaxis should be applauded...? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Or at least grudingly given a little respect?

The way I see it, Infogrames was hounding them to release the game before november.

I have to commend them for axing some of the side projects of the game (Maps, Scenarios, Editor, MP), and focusing on the core game mechanics themselves.

Granted, it is still very dissapointing to see all those things broken or absent, but perhaps Firaxis did the right thing in looking at the big picture and seeing what was the most important for release (AI and Balance, mostly).

If they had left those in, they would have had to do a half-a**ed job on everything to fit it in by the release date, and they would have probably made more money by claiming that all these functions were in the game...

Just my point of view...anyone else have any opinions?

P.S: I must say, I'm dissapointed that the Russian Diplomacy Advisor did not make it into the game. All the advisors, though practically worthless in advice, were still great fun to listen to. How are the advisors in Civ 3 (in terms of entertainment in listening to them)?

	01-11-2001 10:35									#2
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*posters throw chairs, eggs, rotten fruit at Aendolin, fist fighting breaks out*

	01-11-2001 10:39									#3
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Owwww.... that hurt.

Why does someone always bring rotten fruit to these things?

	01-11-2001 10:40									#4
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Because they've been holding on to them for months waiting to say that "Civ3 sucks" just because it's not exactly like Civ2.

	01-11-2001 11:00									#5
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I haven't made a judgement yet - I don't have the game.

But the lack of multiplayer really pisses me off.

	01-11-2001 11:11									#6
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Tell us how you really feel, Horsie .

	01-11-2001 11:11									#7
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Basically, they had 3 options:

1) Release SP and buggy MP in november (Well, oct 31)

2) Release SP and no MP in november. Release MP later.

3) Release SP and MP later (who knows how much longer).

Why would you take 3 over 2? You get to play SP while waiting for MP, instead of waiting for both.

	01-11-2001 11:12									#8
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Another option: Figure out 2 years ago how much time they had and plan accordingly.

	01-11-2001 11:13									#9
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Wait. I forget. This is their first game, and they don't have much combined industry experience. I take it back.

	01-11-2001 11:17									#10
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Another option: Figure out 2 years ago how much time they had and plan accordingly.

That's too logical

At least you didn't bring fruit....

*dodges sheep*

	01-11-2001 11:18									#11
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*throws dog bisquits*

	01-11-2001 11:20									#12
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quote: Another option: Figure out 2 years ago how much time they had and plan accordingly.

Seeing that half of the team up and left LATE last year, with the promised release date still hanging over their heads. They figured out what was important to do.

quote: Wait. I forget. This is their first game, and they don't have much combined industry experience. I take it back.

In a certain way it is, for half of the members of the team. Especially the programmers and most of the artists.

	01-11-2001 11:21									#13
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Yin, buddy, were you the one telling us (years ago) that the Black & White engine would be perfect for Civilization III?

	01-11-2001 11:22									#14
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So I should applaud them for the effort?! LOL! Please.

	01-11-2001 11:23									#15
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Asher: I think you've had your head stuck in the geek forums too long.

	01-11-2001 11:24									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Yin, buddy, were you the one telling us (years ago) that the Black & White engine would be perfect for Civilization III?

That was cruel

	01-11-2001 11:24									#17
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Asher: I think you've had your head stuck in the geek forums too long.

Is that a yes or a no?
Someone in the Civ3 forums kept harping about the B&W engine being used in Civ3, and I remember arguing with the person about it saying what a silly idea that was.

Oh, and it doesn't look self-serving at all to have so many quotes of yourself in your sig...

Tell ya what, Yin, why don't you apply for a job at Firaxis.
Once you get in, whip them into shape!
Hell, make MP yourself!

Go Yin! Go Yin! It's yo birfday!

	01-11-2001 11:25									#18
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The only thing I ever said about Black and White was they had, seemingly, a strong testing program.

OOPS! LOL...

Asher, if you want to make up stuff, continue to do it about the Windows OS.

	01-11-2001 11:26									#19
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Hey, I never said you said it. I asked if you did.

Can you get anything right?

Edit: Does anyone remember who did say that, anyway?

	01-11-2001 11:28									#20
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quote: So I should applaud them for the effort?! LOL! Please.

Well.... if you want?

*pictures Yin clapping in front of monitor*

	01-11-2001 11:28									#21
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Aha! Google found it.

It was LOKI.

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum6/HTML/001411.html

Some interesting quotes from Yin in there though:

quote: HOWEVER, a Civ-like game with a BW or U9 engine would be great. Firaxis' next game anybody? Or maybe BHG is already on it?

	01-11-2001 11:29									#22
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You asked. I answered. Defrag yourself, Asher.

I can't remember who ... but I remember the discussion quite well. I'm sure you could find it around here if you tried.

	01-11-2001 11:31									#23
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You'd get nailed at any good university for that tactic:

quote: Personally, I'm looking forward to a more "simple" Civ3, but that's because I'm hungry for a retro Civ3 with ultra-modern stuff built into the AI and the gameplay itself.

	01-11-2001 11:32									#24
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 You asked. I answered. Defrag yourself, Asher.

I'm not used to being fragged. (we need the FFZ's :geek: smiley here)

	01-11-2001 11:33									#25
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 You'd get nailed at any good university for that tactic:

So you retract your possible statement about Firaxis making a 3D game?

And that would have looked so nice in your sig in a few years...

	01-11-2001 11:34									#26
	Get a bigger avatar today!

OT: I just tried NU2002's defrag utility. Seems quite good. Know anything about it the rest of the world doesn't?

	01-11-2001 11:34									#27
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Acck! No! Please don't turn my thread into a flame-war between two people!!

Let's discuss this peacably, eh?

	01-11-2001 11:35									#28
	Got spare money?

I said "Civ-like" game. Did that not post correctly in your browser? Using one of them garage OSs?

	01-11-2001 11:35									#29
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 OT: I just tried NU2002's defrag utility. Seems quite good. Know anything about it the rest of the world doesn't?

OT: I was talking about Quake III and Counter-Strike and whatnot. I use NU2002's defrag weekly, it's scheduled. With all of the por--err...word documents I download I can dice up the drive pretty quickly.

On topic: Yes, yes! Bow down to Firaxis.

	01-11-2001 11:39									#30
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Ah, yes. I, too, download a lot of Word documents.

Back to the topic:

Firaxis no doubt experienced some major trouble with Brian's leaving. Which begs the question:

WHY MAKE A FRIGGEN DINO GAME, CANCEL IT, THEN START UP A GOLF GAME?!!!!

No sympathy from me. I predicted something like this shortly after SMAC. I said: Ooops, this is 'small company gets a little money and figures they can make half a dozen games at once syndrome.'

It's tough to be right this often! (j.k)