01-11-2001 11:00									#1
	CSUs and Golden Ages: I want to know Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

As a real opponent of Civ Specific Units in Civ, I would like to see how the feature turned out. Granted, I don't assume I'm always right. In fact, I'm often mistaken. But I debated on this point for quite some time, and I would love it if a few questions could be answered by those who have the game.

Do you think the CSUs are balanced?
Are CSUs too weak/too powerful compared to normal units?
Are golden ages easy/ hard to get?
Are golden ages unbalancing or too powerful?
Am I a big idiot for hating CSUs?
Should CSUs keep me from buying the game?

Thanks...

	01-11-2001 11:29									#2
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Well, I've only had one real experience with CSU's and a golden age. Playing as the Babylonians on a huge map with 16 civs I didn't grab enough land off the bat and wound up with a tiny (yet cultural) civ. I started falling behind in techs and didn't have enough of an army to challenge anyone. I had a few bowmen in my cities in case anything did happen. Well, the game was eerily peaceful as it seemed that there were no wars at all going on, at least until the russians demanded tribute and I refused. In rode some horsemen into my territory, which I repelled with my bowmen to trigger the GA. After getting peace with the Russians, my economy started to take off; I was getting much more commerce than without it. I was able to both stockpile money and raise my science rate to pull pretty even with the rest of the world. I'm lucky I managed to trigger it with a CSU, as I was far enough behind in techs that the AI managed to beat me to almost all of the wonders. So, the GA turned out to be very helpful in terms of getting me back into the game.

	02-11-2001 11:09									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Thanks, Ixnay. Does anybody else want to enlighten me? Hey, CSU fans, here is your big chance to make me look stupid!

	02-11-2001 12:33									#4
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay37 .... I'm lucky I managed to trigger it with a CSU, as I was far enough behind in techs that the AI managed to beat me to almost all of the wonders. So, the GA turned out to be very helpful in terms of getting me back into the game.

Interesting. So a civ with an early UU is easier to play as for example the Americans with their late UU?

	02-11-2001 16:06									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Interesting. So a civ with an early UU is easier to play as for example the Americans with their late UU?

Nope, its the other way around (especially for the americans). Check this post:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=31727

	02-11-2001 16:17									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

In my experience americans and germans seldom survive long enough to enter their golden ages or use their CSU. They're generally smashed quite handily by races like aztecs, egyptians, babylonians - all those civ's with early golden ages as well as early CSU's. Having a golden age jumpstarts you a LOT, and due to compounding returns this makes a massive difference when its early in the game. I've had no games (Admittedly only a few played) where modern age units have made as much of a difference in the outcome as ancient age units.
Also, golden ages occur outside of combat when you build certain wonders that favor your civ's stats. (I.E. pyramids for religious races).

Laz

	02-11-2001 16:31									#7
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Hehehe I thought I would be give the Greeks a really rough punishment when I got the tech to build Legionaries... turns out I didn't have any iron! Argh!

In the meantime, the Greek did have their Hoplites. But all in all, I didn't think it threw the game off in a major way. You can also turn Civ-specific abilities off, BTW.

	02-11-2001 16:33									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Personally, I think the later age units should be much stronger. Only two civs have modern CSUs, and at that point in the game, all remaining civs are typically large and strong.

Early in the game, an army of customs can annihilate neighboring enemies.

However, those aren't my main problems with them - you can 'save' your golden age as long as you like by not using your custom unit, and trigger it much later with either the unit, or with wonders. Unless there is an age limitation on this, all early age customs are better than the F15 or the Panzer.

*shrug*

They can be turned off in any event, so no biggy.

	02-11-2001 17:17									#9
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quote: Originally posted by cyril25376 Interesting. So a civ with an early UU is easier to play as for example the Americans with their late UU?

It doesn't really matter to me if it is harder or easier, just that it is different. It adds replay value to game that (hopefully when I eventually get to buy it) has it in spades.

	02-11-2001 17:23									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

There simply should have been one UU per civilization per echelon or era. And how you use them and wage war with should balance each other out and then you are forced to rely heavily on tactics, strategy and a whole hell of a lot of forethought.

Uncle Thade

	02-11-2001 17:32									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DonJoel Nope, its the other way around (especially for the americans). Check this post: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=31727

That poster seems to be under the impression that you only get a Golden Age once, and only when you have your special unit available. Not true, in my experience. Playing as the Russians I got my first Golden Age long before I had Cossacks, and playing as the Americans I am fairly sure I had two Golden Ages and I didn't play that one past 1500 AD.

	02-11-2001 17:38									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: That poster seems to be under the impression that you only get a Golden Age once, and only when you have your special unit available. Not true, in my experience. Playing as the Russians I got my first Golden Age long before I had Cossacks, and playing as the Americans I am fairly sure I had two Golden Ages and I didn't play that one past 1500 AD.

Sorry to let you down but there is only 1 golden age