02-11-2001 01:44									#1
	Semi-Solution: Slow Scroll Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

On XP machines with Nvidia hardware (geforce family of graphics cards), we've identified that the new Nvidia detonator drivers are causing the problem. In XP it's relatively easy to roll back to the original drivers.

* Right-click on desktop and select properties.
* Select the Settings tab, then Advanced.
* Select the adapter tab, then Properties.
* Select the Driver tab, then Roll Back Driver.

This is not a great solution, but one that will address the problem until we can find a solution by working with Nvidia.

Jeff

Last edited by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS on 02-11-2001 at 02:29

	02-11-2001 04:25									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

WHat about us Win98SE Users with NVidia cards. I have Voodoo3. Which drivers should I use. I tried both latest and old drivers. No difference.

Specs:
PII-450
Voodoo3
HD: Plenty of Gigs

	02-11-2001 05:35									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I was wondering why it was so sluggish! Oh well its playable at least, Im not gonna roll back to the XP default because I play other (FPS) games.

	02-11-2001 06:22									#4
	Thank You!! Inflate your Upload Space

Thank you Thank You THANK YOU!!

I was upset that the game was behaving so slow on my P3/733 w/640MB. I rolled back the driver, and now have much better performance.

It still isn't close to what Civ2 accomplished for speed, but it is much better than it was. Thank you for the Posting!

On a side note, I have purchased the LE from EB here in Canada. Canadian retailers were very upset that they couldn't get it, but because EB and BestBuy (Future Shop in Canada) have their own distribution chains, a few stores received it (lucky me!!).

Enough rambling - gotta get back to the game!

	02-11-2001 06:24									#5
	I haven´t XP but... Increase the size of your Attachments

Does the same problem occur under Win2000 (since many people told me that XP is mainly an enhanced Win2k, which uses often the same drivers)?

And if so, how can Win2k users solve it?

	02-11-2001 13:46									#6
	Tired of ads?

I have Windows 2000 SP1 with a GeForce 2 MX (the Hercules Prophet II), and just installed the drivers from the Nvidia website two days ago. The scrolling is very slow, although I'm not sure if it's the "normal" slow.

Although I did install NVMax a month ago and set the pre-rendered screens to 0 for better mouse feedback for Operation Flashpoint (and that helped a lot!). Hmm, I'll have to try setting it back to 2.

-a rabbit

	02-11-2001 16:05									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

I have XP with a GeForce256 on an Athlon 700 with the latest detonator drivers. Yet for some reason, I am having no problem whatsoever...

	02-11-2001 17:02									#8
	Speeds it up Got spare money?

This solution seemed to wrk for me, I am running a 933 P3 with327MB Ram, and I was having this scrolling problem in XP. Once I rolled back drivers, it sped it up, however it still seems pretty choppy. Is there any way to speed the screen scrolling rate up to where it should be? r are we going to have to wait for a patch for it?

	02-11-2001 18:44									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I suggest rolling back the driver to the 12.9x series anyway. I've been playing Dark Age of Camelot since release and we had a number of players there experiencing big problems with the 21.83 Detonators. I don't remember the issues with Win2K, but under XP, it would hard reboot your machine when you quit the game. I'm assuming that the 21.83 drivers are unstable and holding at the XP stock ones until the 21.88 drivers get more testing.

	02-11-2001 21:05									#10
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So, does anyone have a titanium Geforce3? I'm having the same issues with my Ti 200. What driver can I use with it. I've tried rolling back but the drivers I've found to rollback to don't support the titanium.

Basically, does anyone have a driver revision that works with the titanium AND lets Civ 3 scroll all nice and fast and stuff? Oh, I have Win2k.

Thanks!

	02-11-2001 23:18									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Thank you for acknowledging the problem but rolling back your drivers is not a solution. I find it hard to believe that it is a problem with the drivers It’s more like a problem with the game. I say this because no other games (and I have allot of them) have a problem with the new drivers. Saying that there is a problem with driver’s s is like saying that there is a problem with the trucks when the tires are defective.

With the new detonator drivers my 3d mark 2001 went from 5300 to 6800. BIG DIFFERENCE!! And now I am using the old 12.41 drivers because of one game (well the best game) but it still bothers me.

As a loyal patron that purchased the ltd ed I beg of you to come to an expedient real solution to this problem.

PS: Emailed tech support on this question and never received an answer. There are probably ppl out there returning the game because they can’t find appropriate resources to solve the problem and tech support doesn’t answer….just my opinion.

Still a great game though…sorry for being hard on you.

PSS: If you want ANY version of old detonator drivers you could look here:

http://www.guru3d.com/files/detonator/

	03-11-2001 02:17									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I've got a geforce3 running XP on a 1.8 GHz Pentium4 512 RDRAM
and no problems

You can be sure I won't be attempting to upgrade my drivers anytime soon

	03-11-2001 03:57									#13
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Hopefully a real fix is included in the first patch. I did the driver rollback last night and it messed up my video a bit (nothing too bad, but it wasn't acceptable). Took me a good 20 minutes to fix it.

	03-11-2001 04:59									#14
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Yeah, but I have a GeForce (1-DDR) with Windows XP and have no problems whatsoever. Why am I unaffected by this problem???

	03-11-2001 08:19									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Yeah, but I have a GeForce (1-DDR) with Windows XP and have no problems whatsoever. Why am I unaffected by this problem???

Have you gone out of your way to download the Detonator XP drivers in the past month from Nvidia's website? (21.88 or something is their version).

The ones you probably have are 12.80...which work fine (Windows XP installs 12.80 by default).

	03-11-2001 09:40									#16
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Yeah, but I have a GeForce (1-DDR) with Windows XP and have no problems whatsoever. Why am I unaffected by this problem???

Did you read any of these posts?

	03-11-2001 21:01									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I still can't play....this game DOES NOT work properly with a Geforce3 Ti card. There is NO support for Ti cards below the 21.81 driver, therefore, NO support for Ti cards in Civ3 until a patch. Please hurry with it 8(

	03-11-2001 22:57									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

MDA, what drivers are you using?

	03-11-2001 23:00									#19
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I can attest that the following setup has the "Slow Scroll" problem as well as generally choppy/pausing/slow behavior in Windows 2000 (note that this is not XP!)

(I'm not gloating here about my setup. Sorry for the lack of modesty. . . but if it helps, I went heavily into debt to do this!)

I built my new system last night to try to get ready for the next round of games (and Civ3 was the motivation after I saw how it played on my PIII 700 and Voodoo 5500).

Pentium IV 2Ghz
512MB DDR from Crucial.com
Shuttle AV40 PX266 Motherboard
Adaptec 29160N
Quantum Atlas 10K III 18GB
VisionTek Xtasy 6964 (Nvidia GForce 3 Titanium 500)
SBLive X-gamer (not 5.1)

So, in Windows 2000 (SP2), I installed all chipset (Via 4-in-1) and video drivers (newest detonator from NVidida). . . and everything else that might be needed. . . and the performance. . . to be blunt. . . sucked.

The problem is that earlier version of Detonator Drivers wouldn't work on my machine because Windows didn't let me install them for the newer Titanium card. So, had I not been able to install Windows 98 SE, Civ3 would not have been a good experience for me.

Things I noticed in Windows 2000:

* Slow-map-scrolling problem.
* Advisor screens would pause before coming up (1-2 seconds. This doesn't happen in Windows 98)
* 1-5 second pauses between turns in the very beginning of a new game. This seems odd so early in the game and is *not* present on Windows 98.

I hope all this information helps both track down the problem and also make it (somewhat?) clear that Windows 2000 suffers from the same problems as XP. At least, with my setup it does.

But, I gotta say, on Windows 98 SE, Civ3 is screaming along. Maps scrolling still isn't what we've all grown accustomed to in RTS games like Age of Empires. . . but it's fine.

Best Regards,

Hurin

	04-11-2001 02:07									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The slow scrolling problem DOES exist for Windows 2000 SP1 with the GeForce 2 MX with the latest NVidia drivers installed. This is with a Pentium III 866 with 256 MB memory.

How do I know? I just took out the GeForce with 32 MB of memory and put in an ATI All-in-Wonder Pro with 8 MB memory, and it scrolls 2x to 3x as fast with the ATI!

I'm going to guess numbers, I can maybe scroll three times in one second with the ATI card, and one time per second with the GeForce 2 MX.

-a rabbit

	04-11-2001 03:45									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The problem is in Nvidia's Windows 2000/XP drivers for Detonator XP.

Just download version 12.41 for Win2000/XP here.

	04-11-2001 03:51									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I've also experienced the slowdown with Win2000, but with both the 12.41 WHQL _and_ the 21.83 drivers.

My system:
P2-400
256 megs RAM
Geforce 256 32mb

A friend has worse specs (less ram) but with Win98 has a much faster scroll speed.

It's possible the 21.83 drivers were not being completely removed when 12.41 was installed, but both dxdiag and device manager were showing the correct dates and version numbers.

	04-11-2001 03:53									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Does your friend have a faster CPU?

Your problem could just be the CPU speed.

	04-11-2001 04:12									#24
	Put an end to popups!

No, his system is a P2-400 as well. He has a slightly larger hard drive, but less ram.

	04-11-2001 05:38									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Asher The problem is in Nvidia's Windows 2000/XP drivers for Detonator XP. Just download version 12.41 for Win2000/XP here.

You are correct. The problem is that version 12.41 does not support Geforce3 Titanium cards. So if u got a Titanium, you are SOL.

	04-11-2001 07:11									#26
	Remove this text

No, it supports it fine.
What it doesn't support are shadow buffers (across any of the cards).

Nvidia does not make hardware specific drivers, and the Titanium models are the exact same hardware as the other GeForce 3, only clocked higher.

It'll work just fine. Nvidia had a marketing blitz about the new features of the Titanium (which are Shadow Buffers) but are also available on the old GeForce 3, the enhancement only came with the Detonator XP drivers released at the same time as the titanium.

	04-11-2001 11:24									#27
	Tired of ads?

http://www.guru3d.com/files/detonator/

This site has some 22.40 and 22.50 drivers posted. Supposedly he has access to beta drivers or drivers that haven't been released yet.

Anyways, I can't vouch for these, but I saw them there. I'm going to be trying them to try to fix some other problems I've noticed. Try them at your own risk. I take no responsibility.

I'm not sure at this point. . . but my VIA chipset and the new GeForce Titanium aren't getting along very well I think.

Best Regards,

Hurin

	04-11-2001 20:13									#28
	Put an end to popups!

I've trid 22.50 and the problem's still there (see my initial post above). Haven't tried 22.40, but you can bet it'll be the same, since they wouldn't have fixed something just to break it again.

	05-11-2001 18:30									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Asher No, it supports it fine. What it doesn't support are shadow buffers (across any of the cards). Nvidia does not make hardware specific drivers, and the Titanium models are the exact same hardware as the other GeForce 3, only clocked higher. It'll work just fine. Nvidia had a marketing blitz about the new features of the Titanium (which are Shadow Buffers) but are also available on the old GeForce 3, the enhancement only came with the Detonator XP drivers released at the same time as the titanium.

Hrmmm, that's odd. I tried a couple 12.41 revisions (I don't remember which ones) and it comes up in VGA mode with a max rez of 800x600 on my desktop. I could be wrong with classifying all these drivers as not supporting Titanium. I would like someone to give me a 12.41 detonator revision to prove me wrong. (So I can play!)

Who has a Titanium that works with Civ 3?? What revision are u using?

	06-11-2001 21:18									#30
	Increase Your PM Length

nVidia uses a unified driver architecture. Meaning all of their core designs are based around the same basic architecture so that one driver can work for virtually any card. While the latest DetonatorXP (2x.xx) series brings significant improvements for the Geforce 3's unique GPU, the display itself is still the same. Keep in mind that before the 2x.xx drivers were out in september, everyone with a Geforce 3 was using the 12.xx or 14.xx drivers. And I don't know about you, but I haven't had any problems, and I have not heard of any other problems either.