02-11-2001 21:13									#31
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I've noticed on my first few games that the AI sacrifices culture for expansion. A lot of times, they would found cities, only to have them become mine a few turns later due to culture. I tried to then focus only on expansion, and it seemed to work. I didn't get boxed in.

	02-11-2001 21:53									#32
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I have to concur about trading expansion for culture. My current game I basically spent all of my resources in defense and churning out settlers until not a single piece of real estate was available.

Seems to work well for me, but then I am only playing on chieftan

	02-11-2001 21:54									#33
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yin what size map and settings are you using?

	02-11-2001 22:07									#34
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'm a newbie to this fine forum (though veteran Civ2 Deity smasher) and I have a question. What does ICS mean? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

e

	02-11-2001 22:09									#35
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Yes, the AI expansion is awesome ... if suspicious.

I've been able to keep pace with AI expansion on Regent level by timing settler building to occur on or just after the city increases to Pop 3. In between, I use the time to build more units and an occasional wall/temple/granary.

Your screenshot seems to add additional weight to my one complaint thus far: civs seem to start near the same group of civs every time. For example, the Chinese/Japanese/Indians are always in the same general area. I may take some time this weekend and just start a bunch of games to see if this is true. If so, knock replayability down one notch. Knowing who your neighbor will be every time out kind of sucks.

	02-11-2001 22:14									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by eMarkM I'm a newbie to this fine forum (though veteran Civ2 Deity smasher) and I have a question. What does ICS mean? Sorry if this is a stupid question. e

ICS = Infinite City Sprawl. A cheesy tactic that consists of building tons of cities to overwhelm the AI, perfected by some in Civ2. The developers intended to thwart such crap in Civ3.

Personally, I never used it. Seems boring to me.

	02-11-2001 22:21									#37
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Stuie was faster than me.


So, is ICS still possible?








Edited to delete same explanation provided by Stuie.

Last edited by Alex on 02-11-2001 at 22:33

	02-11-2001 22:24									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yin man I gotta give it to ya- I'm glad you got the game and I sincerely hope you enjoy it enough to pay your hard-earned $50. I just wish I could run it... Seems to not like my computer. Tehc support seems to respond within 24 hrs though with helpful info. That's a good thing.

	02-11-2001 23:25									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ah, ICS=infinite city sprawl. Thx for response. Yes, I'm very familiar with this tactic. Build pyramids for high octane growth and crank out endless cities.

It does appear that the bunching up of Civs and their remarkable ability to spread so quickly themselves limits this very strategy. Also, the rampant corruption everyone is complaining about in their far off cities also limits this strategy if you have some space to expand where you every other Civ isn't 10 squares away from you. I don't think the corruption thing is a bug as some complain. It's probably designed to prevent ICS, at least until you've grown culturally. These factors together with AI combat being so much tougher I think will make an ICS stratgey very difficult. Throw your Civ2 strategies out the window.

So far I've enjoyed the challenge so early in the game. I've already had a few exciting "settler races" with other Civs to see who will claim that unclaimed gap between us. I shudder when I see that warrior/settler combo racing towards my borders. But I love it.

e

	02-11-2001 23:51									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yim,

I can confirm that your trouble was outdated Radeon DDR 32MB drivers. I have the same card and had the same trouble. Users of this card should know that updating is necessary and can be hairy. My advice: The "Loading Graphics Device" message will remain for a few minutes with no HD activity. Be patient; it just seems stalled. There'll be a burst of HD activity and you'll be good to go.

Jim Cobb

	03-11-2001 00:11									#41
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yin since you have no land left on which to expand try to capture their cities with culture. I have been able to get two A.I. cities this way(one of which was a city that was mine in the first place that the A.I. had captured). I dont know if you have though of this already, just trying to be helpfull. It also sounds like you like Civ3 alot so far. I know that I am very gald that I got Civ3!!!!

	03-11-2001 00:30									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

OK Yin, I got time now, so here's how to change font.

I haven't tried it yet, but this was my guess:

I the main directory, there is a TTF file (text file).... go into your windows/fonts folder or wherever it is, copy the font you like, and go back to your civ3 directory. Paste the file in there, and rename it to the same thing as the one that came with civ3 is called....


that should work

	03-11-2001 00:33									#43
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yin...[looking at your screenshot]...you gonna get slaughtered!

...unless...

How is the culture model coming along? I notice you are building a temple in the city closest to indians...and that your city populations tend to be higher than theirs. Have you started to assimilate their cities?

The resource model? Have you noticed any resources appear on his side of the border?

	03-11-2001 02:13									#44
	Yin, Reviews, and Culture Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

To be honest, my first impressions of Yin were not good, but I found that he can very reasonable if a neutral third party with some diffusive commentary enters the picture to diffuse the frequent 1 on 1 flame wars he seems to get drawn in to (can't really hold him responsible to much, human psychology is quite varied and some people tend to be aggresive like that...or you're like me...a obsessive compulsive mild manic depressive with a borderlind personality and inferiority complex). I look forward to his review and I think it will be balanced as long as no one tries to agitate him.

I too support going for culture captures...I was able to contain Iroquois spreading on my continent by culturally converting most of their cities. It was neccasary too, I was boxed in by mountains with no good expansion routes.

	03-11-2001 02:43									#45
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Cool! Thanks, Dave. volcanohead: Thanks for the objective few on my postings here. I just traded maps with India. We share a small island (I suppose it's really a continent, but the scale makes it feel like an island). He has 9 cities to my 4! There's really no free land left. This AI land grab can really put the hurt on you. I like it! I just wish I knew if the AI is doing this 'legally' or not. I'm on Regent level, which I think has no cheats for the AI. Does anybody understand the amazing early AI game?

Yeah, because my early game expansion easily matches that of the AI. It's about what your emphasis is. The early game AI tends to put an emphasis on creating a military and building settlers. They mine their dimpled plains for 2 shields while building up the population. Plan for finishing the building of settler's the second the population hits 3. Multiply this by your new towns

I make it a point to have a strong cultural influence, so I tend to create one or two "defense" units for my cities and then prop up some temples. The AI tends to churn out units instead of my equivlant temple. If you capture an AI city you'll normally notice a lack of city improvements.

	03-11-2001 03:21									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Yeah, this guy is cool. He's let me do this before. I think he gets eval copies or something ... Anyway: Just had my 4th hard crash. Total system lock-up. Same error message (actually, I'm assuming, since it wouldn't even display the error message). Now, to give you an idea of how fair I'm trying to be, I will try to sort this out. I've already freed up system resources, so that's not it. Off to troubleshoot. So far:

Just wondering...are you playing a pirated version? Is it possible that it's not a good copy?

	03-11-2001 03:59									#47
	Suffering from ads?

Yin I have a P-III 600 intel, Matrox G-400 32 megs, SB Live, 128 megs of Ram and 20 Gig HD. Just those two crashes that I told you about. They made have been windows crashes, no error message.
The game. early on I was able to build city 2 some time before any one else. City 3 one turn before the AI. The AI then built cities 4, 5, 6 before I could build no. 4. When I had about 8 cities the AIs had 10 to 15 cities. I,m was playing on Chieftain level. I was not able to to finnish discovering all advances. My intire game was at 50% level for science. I did win with no wars except one small war with the Iroquois that lasted about 10 turns.

	03-11-2001 04:14									#48
	Increase Your PM Length

Okay, well, if Yin's enjoying the game, that's good enough for me!!

C'mon november 9th!

	03-11-2001 04:23									#49
	Support Apolyton

After posting threads on "don't get it!", "wait for Spring!", etc., criticizing aspects he didn't know about, complaining about "feeble" 9.3 review scores, and speculating about a game he'd never played, "dark-side" Yin26 was finally put away and good old "light-side" Yin26 took over.
He is now testing civ3, giving insights about his playing experiences like normal players do and... PREPARING to make an INFORMED review... opposed to everything he had been doing regarding to civ3. And since he has already proved in the past that he can give very important contributions to the cause, I for one would like to thank that korean computer guy for putting dark yin to sleep.
Despite having been one of the many who criticized Yin and ignored many of his posts, next time I read something from him, I will pay attention, because he is no longer a civ3 ignorant (unlike me, and Nov16 still seems too far away). Now he can rant all he wants, because it'll probably be a constructive critic and he'll be able to back it up with his own REAL experiences, and not just do what he'd been doing, what was a real pain.
Welcome back.

	03-11-2001 04:34									#50
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Maybe so, but be prepared for all the posts coming up from him being very critical of Firaxis for not making the game perfect in its initial release.

	03-11-2001 04:34									#51
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Wow, a lot I want to reply to:

"What I DO mind is they seem to be able to field a much larger army than myself without serious hits to their income -- I'd like to know how they're pulling this one off."

Yes, I can now accept the expansion part as their priority ... but the armies AND the expasion at the same time?

"With every city pumping out at least two settlers I had no problem with the ability to spread, the only problem was finding a good spot for a city that wasn't jungle, hill or desert."

Funny: They wanted to crue ICS by (in part) having the AI take up all the land. This, of course, is turning us all in to a bunch of land grabbers! Overall, though, it's nice to have to work early on.

"Hope your fun continues and we see a Yin at peace with the world."

LOL! Thanks. It's true so far that the game is looking promising.

"I've noticed on my first few games that the AI sacrifices culture for expansion. A lot of times, they would found cities, only to have them become mine a few turns later due to culture. I tried to then focus only on expansion, and it seemed to work. I didn't get boxed in."

This seems to be precisely right. I would alter my strategy now, of course, in the early game. I'm still hoping that my bigger cities will swallow up some of those AI ones.

"Yin what size map and settings are you using?"

Everything on normal except for the difficulty, which I put on Regent.

"I've been able to keep pace with AI expansion on Regent level by timing settler building to occur on or just after the city increases to Pop 3. In between, I use the time to build more units and an occasional wall/temple/granary. Your screenshot seems to add additional weight to my one complaint thus far: civs seem to start near the same group of civs every time."

Hmmm. I hope not. Sounds like that could be easily fixed if we whine about it.

"Yin man I gotta give it to ya- I'm glad you got the game and I sincerely hope you enjoy it enough to pay your hard-earned $50. I just wish I could run it... Seems to not like my computer. Tehc support seems to respond within 24 hrs though with helpful info. That's a good thing."

Hmmm. I wish I could help.

"I can confirm that your trouble was outdated Radeon DDR 32MB drivers. I have the same card and had the same trouble."

Yep. I was happy to see the fix was so easy. I started thinking about boot disks and all the horrid things I could think of to test.

"Yin since you have no land left on which to expand try to capture their cities with culture. I have been able to get two A.I. cities this way(one of which was a city that was mine in the first place that the A.I. had captured). I dont know if you have though of this already, just trying to be helpfull. It also sounds like you like Civ3 alot so far. I know that I am very gald that I got Civ3!!!!"

Yep: You just called my strategy for the next several turns. Wish me luck, though. An angry India could put the hurt on me if they attack now.

Civ Dave: Thanks. I might try that if the font continues to bother me.

"How is the culture model coming along? I notice you are building a temple in the city closest to indians...and that your city populations tend to be higher than theirs. Have you started to assimilate their cities?"

I had to run off to sleep ... and have a busy morning. But I keep thinking: 'You will be assimilated!' Hope it works.

"The resource model? Have you noticed any resources appear on his side of the border?"

Hmmm. I haven't paid too close attention to resources in my first game so far. I know ... that might come back to haunt me.

"I look forward to his review and I think it will be balanced as long as no one tries to agitate him."

LOL! You're right. I get side-tracked too easily when I get jumped on. I'll work on ignoring that and just posting on-topic.

"I make it a point to have a strong cultural influence, so I tend to create one or two "defense" units for my cities and then prop up some temples. The AI tends to churn out units instead of my equivlant temple. If you capture an AI city you'll normally notice a lack of city improvements."

Looks like we are developing a consensus here.

"Just wondering...are you playing a pirated version? Is it possible that it's not a good copy?"

Nope! That updated video driver took care of the crashes without a hitch. Haven't had one since.

By the way, has anybody posted this?:

If you put your taskbar to 'auto-hide,' you can jump to the desktop anytime! I can now play and post at the same time. And even with all the various apps running alonside Civ3, no crashes after the video card update.

Last edited by yin26 on 03-11-2001 at 04:40

	03-11-2001 04:38									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

"Okay, well, if Yin's enjoying the game, that's good enough for me!! "

Actually, I'd read Korn's review (hopefully this Sunday).

"And since he has already proved in the past that he can give very important contributions to the cause, I for one would like to thank that korean computer guy for putting dark yin to sleep."

LOL! That Korean computer guy, though, has nearly caused a divorce in my house on more than one occasion. Let's face it: He's a drug pusher.

"Maybe so, but be prepared for all the posts coming up from him being very critical of Firaxis for not making the game perfect in its initial release."

Perfect is silly. But so is a crippled editor. That's stuff for the final review.

	03-11-2001 05:02									#53
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I was just wondering... does it take you 32 turns to complete your next tech advance regardless of what you set your science rate at? If there was a progress bar or an actual numerical target I knew what I had to hit, then maybe I could understand but for the time being, it just doesn't seem to add up.

	03-11-2001 05:17									#54
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

32 in the beginning... first advances. Later it is much faster!

And perfect is silly. Yin.. I got the game too... moving through it .

	03-11-2001 05:20									#55
	Remove this text

No, the turns decrease. From the Domestic Advisor screen, you can set the research rate. I then looked at the Science Advisor screen to see my current number of turns required ... when back to up the spending ... came back and saw a good decrease in the number of turns to the next tech.

	03-11-2001 05:26									#56
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hmmm, looks like I'll need to go to war just to stay alive. Wish me luck!

	03-11-2001 05:45									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I took over Calcutta, cutting India's supply line in half: But the people revolted and took it back! Looks like I need to handle the angry populace better. More troops fortifying? Would that work?

Ah, hell. Now I'm in trouble.

	03-11-2001 05:49									#58
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: If you put your taskbar to 'auto-hide,' you can jump to the desktop anytime! I can now play and post at the same time. And even with all the various apps running alonside Civ3, no crashes after the video card update.

Oh yeah? Cool! I have alt-tab working very well .

	03-11-2001 05:50									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Next time you capture a city, use its population to force build something. It will use foreign nationals first, meaning that you get a free building, and get rid of those dissidents

	03-11-2001 05:50									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by SixArmedMan I was just wondering... does it take you 32 turns to complete your next tech advance regardless of what you set your science rate at? If there was a progress bar or an actual numerical target I knew what I had to hit, then maybe I could understand but for the time being, it just doesn't seem to add up.

This has probably already been answered (haven't read the last few post yet), but the answer is yes, in my experience, if you continually research the "bleeding edge" of technology it takes a long time.

However, once you research the more advanced tech's the earlier tech's cost less and less the further up the tech tree you go. For example, I finally researched Monarchy in my latest game and Literature was only 12 turns to research compared to the 32 they had been, and this is without counting in the boost you get from leaving despotism.