06-11-2001 13:22									#1
	Pre-Patch mod version 1.6 Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Here is a mod I have been working on. Attached is the mod, along with the readme. And Just so you get an idea of what this mod is about, here is a list of changes:

Version 1.6 adds the Civilopedia update.

Version 1.5 notes:
Here is a list of additions for the new version of this mod:

Gave Police Stations the ability to quell corruption like Courthouses. Increased their cost to 120 shields, and maintance costs to 3 gold per turn.

The chance for Air Superiority interception is increased to 65%, even though this feature seems to be broken at this time.

Magellan's Voyage now also gives a free harbor to all cities on the same continent, along with the normal +1 movement bonus to all naval vessels. Cost was increased to 600 shields.

Increased the number of initial content citizens for each difficulty level:
Chieftan- 5
Warlord- 4
Regent- 3
Monarch- 3
Emperor- 2
Deity-1 (left the same)

General Modifications

Changed harvested-forest bonus shields from 10 up to 20. This is a good way to boost production in ancient times, and also in the later 'post replaceable parts' era via deforestation. Very advantagious to Industrial civs.

Changed Wealth shields-to-gold ratio down to 4:1 from the default 8:1.

Oil should now sometimes appear on coastal tiles. They will not be able to be used as a strategic resource because you need to road to it, but it will still give its bonus resources. To compensate for oil's availablity on water, I have increased its appearance ratio from 120 to 145.

Army Corps of Engineers: Infantry and Mechanized Infantry can perform the Build Forstress, Build Road, and Clear Forest/Jungle commands.

All civs now get the corresponding regular units to their unique units. This is done for two reasons: so that you may upgrade earlier units to the corresponding regulars (which can't be done by default); and so that you have the option to forestall winning your Golden Age by not having to field your UUs.


Mod Unit Stats

Explorer has 1 defense. This makes this unit more capable as a scout type unit in enemy territory.

Paratrooper now has a drop range of 6. 4 was too small, especially since the helicopter could drop units this far anyhow.

Horseman no no longer has a Zone of Control. The knight and its equivalents do not have ZoC, so it made little sense to give it to this ancient unit.

Catapult's bombard strenth has been raised from 4 to 5. This isn't much, but helps make catapults a more consistent weapon.

The Cannon's rate of fire was increased from 1 to 2. Since this artillery weapon is twice as costly as catapults, and also requires both iron and saltpeter, it makes sense to give it some power. This is not unbalancing either.

Artillery has not been changed.

Radar Artillery has 16 bombard; 2 range; and 3 rate of fire. This change- as well as the changes in the other artillery pieces- was partly due to the old, more powerful stats I found included in the manual. And I have played CivIII with these modded stats, and they are not unbalancing at all.

Cruise Missile now has a bombard range of 6 instead of 2.

Transport can now only carry only 6 units.

Submarine now attacks at 8 instead of 4. This is to give submarines a chance against destroyers.

AEGIS Cruiser has the same bombarding attack strength as the destroyer: 2.

Nuclear Submarine has the same attack and defense as the modded submarine (8A.4D), but now moves at 4. Even the civilopedia stated that the n-subs were supposed to be faster.

Fighter now has a bombard strength of 4.

Jet Fighter and F-15 have their bombard strength increased to 8.

Stealth Fighter can now initiate the Interception command. Its stats are: 8A.6D and operational range of 7. Bombard is 8 with a rate of fire of 2.

The Chinese Rider UU no longer has ZoC. It has a movement rate of 3, which more than justifies it as a UU when you compare it its equivalent, the knight.

Mounted Warrior also has no ZoC; for the same reasons stated for the Rider and Horseman units.

Privateers have an attack of 2, defense of 1, and move at 4. This, along with them having no 'nationality markings', makes them able to deal with the contemporary and equally expensive Galleon and Frigate.

Attachment: civ3 pre-patch mod version 1.6.zip
This has been downloaded 678 time(s).

Last edited by Anun Ik Oba on 07-11-2001 at 10:55

	06-11-2001 17:47									#2
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just a couple quick questions:

did you upadate the cvivlopedia for these mods? does the civilopedia now say that Magellan's voyage gives harbors? does it say the new Attack(Bombard)/Defense/Movement ratings for the new units? does it mention coastal oil as a bonus resource?

also, when you cut down a forest, does it tell you that 20 shields have been harvested instead of 10?


The reason i ask this is becuase a lotta ppl who download mods will want their civilopedia updated, cause it gets hard to remember what each and every mod does.

	06-11-2001 20:01									#3
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I have a suggestion, which I don't know if you've tried, but try setting the intercept rate to 100%. You'll know for sure whether your planes can actually stop the enemy from bombing or not. Just a suggestion.

	06-11-2001 22:00									#4
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Sorry, but I haven't done any civilodedia updates. I know I should, but I just haven't had the time between playing and figuring out what to mod.

If you want to do it, I will include it with the mod. Otherwise, it may be a small, little while before I get around to making the changes. But you absolutely right- I would like people to be able to use the civpedia as a reference to the mod.


And yes- the will tell you that you have harvested '20^' instead of '10^'.

-edit-

I did try setting the intercept rate to 100%- still, nothing happened.

	07-11-2001 04:46									#5
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Also what might be a good idea would be to make the new civilopedia entries in a different color so that ppl can know this is from a mod and not from the original game - since there's already so many things you gotta learn from this game, it might get confusing.

	07-11-2001 05:22									#6
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Only one niggling concern, regarding the explorer upgrade.

Won't the 1 defense cause the computer to regard it as a military unit? Often, in the mid game, if I find a second continent to explore, there's no way I'd be able to send in horsemen to explore, the computer players would be rightfully pissed off, if I didn't have a RoP treaty. But they generally allow scouts and explorers, as the 0/0 doesn't annoy them NEARLY as much. When one civ SLOWLY gets annoyed at my explorer, I can wander to the next civs land for a bit. Will the 1 defense change that?

This is somewhat major for non-Expansionists who can't make scouts.

	07-11-2001 06:00									#7
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This is an interesting set of changes but I am wondering if all of them are practical? Without rigorous testing, how would one know if these changes will not cause new imbalances or perhaps other gameplay problems?

	07-11-2001 07:34									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark This is an interesting set of changes but I am wondering if all of them are practical? Without rigorous testing, how would one know if these changes will not cause new imbalances or perhaps other gameplay problems?

... so change 'em back!

	07-11-2001 09:11									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Grunthex Only one niggling concern, regarding the explorer upgrade. Won't the 1 defense cause the computer to regard it as a military unit? Often, in the mid game, if I find a second continent to explore, there's no way I'd be able to send in horsemen to explore, the computer players would be rightfully pissed off, if I didn't have a RoP treaty. But they generally allow scouts and explorers, as the 0/0 doesn't annoy them NEARLY as much. When one civ SLOWLY gets annoyed at my explorer, I can wander to the next civs land for a bit. Will the 1 defense change that? This is somewhat major for non-Expansionists who can't make scouts.

This is a good point, and I have been thinking about this lately. I was considering attaching the 'no nationality markings' flag to explorers, just like Privateers get. But my only concern is that the AI seems to ALWAYS go after Privateers if it sees them.

I am going to test out the modded explorers in this game, and see how the AI handles their +1 defense attribute.

	07-11-2001 09:14									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark This is an interesting set of changes but I am wondering if all of them are practical? Without rigorous testing, how would one know if these changes will not cause new imbalances or perhaps other gameplay problems?

This mod is intended to just be, first of all 'fun', but just to quickly address some of the more glaring oddities in the game. But there really isn't any time to be testing the mod, except for what input its user may make, and the game time I put into it, because the first patch from Firaxis will be here within a month. After that patch, who knows what will be changed?

[Plus, they don't pay me enough to play test my mods ]

	07-11-2001 10:30									#11
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Ok, the civilopedia update is finished. I put in all of the changes I made, and fixed a couple of the errors Firaxis missed. Here is just the .txt file you need to replace if you already have the version 1.5 mod.

I will be updating the Pre-Patch mod to version 1.6 shortly.



-edit- just noticed an error in the 'Magellan's Voyage' entry; changed it.

Attachment: civilopedia.txt
This has been downloaded 90 time(s).

Last edited by Anun Ik Oba on 07-11-2001 at 10:47

	07-11-2001 12:18									#12
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I am going to give the The United Nations wonder the Collosus trade bonus. At a cost of 1000 shields, the UN doesn't seem to do enough. Also, if you have diplomatic victory disabled, there isn't a point to build the UN (well, a little culture value); or if you lose the UN vote, but still wish to play on, you have something to show for it.

Look for it in a possible update.

	07-11-2001 14:00									#13
	Re: Pre-Patch mod version 1.6 Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: [SIZE=1] Stealth Fighter can now initiate the Interception command. Its stats are: 8A.6D and operational range of 7. Bombard is 8 with a rate of fire of 2.

Good upgrades.

Although, not to be too technical, but the Stealth fighter having no intercept ability is no big deal. Since F117's have no air-to-air capibility in real life...and then it would be almost pointless to even build Jet Fighters.

-JD

	07-11-2001 16:16									#14
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Well, I guess what I don't understand is why the Stealth Fighter is in the game in the first place, if its only an under-glorified stealth bomber? Especially since in the default rules, the S-Fighter moves the same distance as a Jet Fighter.

	07-11-2001 17:11									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba I am going to give the The United Nations wonder the Collosus trade bonus. At a cost of 1000 shields, the UN doesn't seem to do enough. Also, if you have diplomatic victory disabled, there isn't a point to build the UN (well, a little culture value); or if you lose the UN vote, but still wish to play on, you have something to show for it. Look for it in a possible update.

Or you could give it the Great Library bonus aswell/instead. After all if your country is the centre for world defence it woud make sense other nations would keep you .... well stocked.

At the stage in the game it's built it shouldn't unbalance the game too much as most of the tech tree will be researched anyway.

	07-11-2001 18:50									#16
	Whats wrong with zoc? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Youve taken away all ancient units Zoc cause Knights dont get it? You must like Knights. Its makes sense that lighter armored mounts can do hit and run raids easier where heavily armored Knights just charge in and kill or be killed.

Ghengis Thom

	07-11-2001 20:00									#17
	Re: Re: Pre-Patch mod version 1.6 Tired of ads?

Technically, the F-117 is a bomber, not a fighter. The F-22 is a stealth fighter that has air-to-air capabilities.

quote: Originally posted by Jaundice Good upgrades. Although, not to be too technical, but the Stealth fighter having no intercept ability is no big deal. Since F117's have no air-to-air capibility in real life...and then it would be almost pointless to even build Jet Fighters. -JD

	08-11-2001 11:28									#18
	Re: Whats wrong with zoc? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Ghengis Thom Youve taken away all ancient units Zoc cause Knights dont get it? You must like Knights. Its makes sense that lighter armored mounts can do hit and run raids easier where heavily armored Knights just charge in and kill or be killed. Ghengis Thom

It does make sense, and I agree with you. The reason I don't like it, however, is that Kights make the Horsemen obsolete. So you can't build the Horsemen anymore when the non-ZoC Knights come along, and upgrading your ZoCing H-men to Knights causes you to lose the ZoC.

Maybe I should make a horseman-like unit that can continue to be built during the time of Chivalry? It would be just like the horseman, and both units would get ZoC.

	08-11-2001 14:46									#19
	ZOC Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I also took out the ZOC four mounted units. The way I saw it they had the advantage of 2 moves and to retreat in batle. But I did give ZOC to Archer units. With the idea that they can fire arrows (but not enugh for bombard) since they were basically infantry units. This also creates a little more diversity infantry, archer, cavalry, and artillery/siege. I also figured that with the advent of gunpowder weapons that archer and infantry combined so later infantry units get ZOC for def purposes.

	09-11-2001 22:35									#20
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This is a great mod Annui, I'm loving it. Good work!

	10-11-2001 00:29									#21
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Looking back at my last post; maybe not; F- is generally for fighters.

	10-11-2001 09:58									#22
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Ok, two things:

Other than the change with the police stations, do you deal with corruption at all? increase the effects of Democracy, or courthouses, etc?


And you mentioned you reduced wealth ratio to 4:1 as opposed to 8:1. However, getting the civ advance Economics does the same thing. Are you going to make Economics reduce the ratio even further, or just keep it 4:1 all the time?

Thank you for your time.

	10-11-2001 10:39									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Pufo Ok, two things: Other than the change with the police stations, do you deal with corruption at all? increase the effects of Democracy, or courthouses, etc? And you mentioned you reduced wealth ratio to 4:1 as opposed to 8:1. However, getting the civ advance Economics does the same thing. Are you going to make Economics reduce the ratio even further, or just keep it 4:1 all the time? Thank you for your time.

The default rates are 8:1 without Economics; 4:1 with it.
With my mod it is 4:1 without Economics; 2:1 with.

	11-11-2001 02:59									#24
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I think you might have to power up the bombard genre of units just a bit more. They still seem a little too weak IMHO.

	11-11-2001 03:04									#25
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Also, the ironclads seem to do strangely well against modern Naval units. Perhaps a boosting of stats is in order?

	11-11-2001 11:12									#26
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I think some of the wonders may be too weak Anuni, I have recently created a thread addressing this very issue.
Feel free to take a look when you get the chance.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...3154#post593154

	11-11-2001 18:37									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

nice work!

one additional thing, it's about the longbow and musketmen. I don't have the game myself yet, but I read that the longbow has 4-1-1 stats and the musketmen 2-4-1. Seems a bit silly, this would mean Spain would have driven the Moors out of their land with Longbows, and they would have invaded the New World with those same longbow men. Not to mention great battles between Spanish longbowmen and dutch longbowmen in the 80 years war. ahem

When I get my game I'll either downgrade the longbow to 3-1-1, and/or upgrade the musketmen to 3-4-1 or 4-4-1 (changing some other unit stats too to compensate).