 |
|
axxessdenied
|
|
Canada
Nov 2001
time: 05:16
|
|
Wow... mind posting the bic file?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kolyana
|
|
Two cheers for Plut.
Erm. Maybe that's meant to be three.
Anyway, praise over here for being the wind beneath his winds.
Maybe the bint in the back trying to capture an autograph.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Plutarck
|
 |
Earth
Nov 2001
time: 23:16
|
|
And 2.14159 cheers for Kolyana!
Thanks for the compliment  (inside joke...even she might not get it, hehe)
Rooster: Gonna have to read your post more tommarrow, but I really like your ideas. I wanted to give alot more thought to the government system and I just didn't have the time or inclination to do it.
I think your ideas may be the system I adopt, so we'll see 
About time to rest for the day, but here is what I've come up with so far for version 0.8.
We'll see how it goes, hehe. I've also played alot with the Modern Age tech tree and changed the Spaceship Victory so it should be more difficult, require more research, and take longer to complete.
Here's what I have. It's a whole mess of changes, and I think it's another major step forward for the game:
quote:
11/27/01:
-Space Ship Victory: The SS Victory seems to be too easy and end too quickly. I believe I have rectified this with the following changes. I had a much better and longer explanation but my freakin' computer crashed before I saved...grrrr. They should be mostly self-explanatory.
-All SS pieces: Cost 4 more to build.
-SS Cockpit: Buildable with Robotics, not Space Flight. Everyone should be in stasis, and even with "common" space shuttle missions everything is almost totally controlled by computers. If you're going to Alpha Centauri you aren't going to be driving the thing with a stick or using a calculator to figure out which way you should go. Thus, Robotics is required.
-SS Stasis Chamber: Buildable with Genetics, not Synthetic Materials. Genetics is a kind of "Advanced Medical Research" tech, and putting someone in stasis requires such understanding.
-SS Storage/Supply: Buildable with Superconductor, not Synthetic Materials. Part of what is stored is Project ARK, a collection of more than 150 samples of lifeforms to be used in terraforming a planet and bringing it to early norms. These "samples" are most likely embryos and genetic information, which probably require both Synthetic Materials and Genetics to properly manipulate and store, thus SS Storage/Supply should probably require both techs to actually build it, so while it doesn't require a Superconductor to build the thing I think it's the best place to put it.
-Modern Tech Tree: I am changing the modern tech tree to further balance the Space Ship victory, improve real-world accuracy, and make it more enjoyable too. I'm also moving around some Modern units for similar reasons and to reflect the change in the tech tree.
-Superconductor: Formerly requiring Space Flight and Fission to research, it now requires Synthetic Materials and Miniaturization. SM is needed to conduct the testing and manufacture of superconductors and Miniaturization is required for the powerful computers and advanced electronics which are needed to even want to look for a superconductor, much less actually develop one.
Space Flight and Fission simply make no real-world sense as requirements, and in game-play the modern tech tree is very screwy. The Recycling path is totally unconnected to any other technologys...suffice it to say that it's just a big mess. This change improves real world accuracy and many elements of gameplay.
-Synthetic Materials: Now requires Computers to research in addition to Recycling.
-Nuclear Power: Now requires Computers in addition to Fission.
-Advanced Naval Warfare: Now requires Rocketry and Nuclear Power.
-The Laser: Now requires Miniaturization instead of Computers to research, in addition to it's Nuclear Power requirement.
-Robotics: Now requires only The Laser to research. Because The Laser now requires Miniaturization, Robotics no longer needs it as a requirement.
-Nuclear Submarine: Becomes available with Nuclear Power, not Fission.
-Modern Destroyer: Becomes available with Nuclear Power, not Fission.
-Modern Transport: Becomes available with Computers, not Miniaturization.
-Coracle: Now has 0 attack. I didn't think of it till Smazza brought up that it might be too good and annoys other civs when it's there (he had the idea for a raft unit, but I prefer the Coracle). I forgot that I could give it 0 attack, and it makes sense anyhow. The only way to attack in a Coracle is to get out and swim over to the other boat, so it makes sense to me. This also means Barbarian Galleys can attack you and you can't attack back, hehe. That's what you get for puddlin around on a twig.
-Resource Discovery: Due to the arguments from Flynn I have decided to give the idea of making resources visible earlier a chance. Due to some of his reccommended placements I feel better that it will work, and I also thought of something.
The placement of resources is now more based upon when people began to think a resource could be useful somehow, but hadn't quite decided what to do with the stuff. For instance with iron it had already been discovered and experimented with Bronze Working, but bronze was the prefered use. It wasn't until techniques improved and more smiths starting playing around with iron that it started being used to create anything, so now you can see the resource Iron with the advent of Bronze Working.
I have also changed Wine and Incense, which are luxury resources, to not being visible immediatly. But they are soon discovered...more on that below.
-Iron: Visible with Bronze Working instead of Iron Working.
-Saltpeter: Visible with Invention instead of Gunpowder. This is a hard one...anyone have a better idea for it?
-Coal: Visible with Metallurgy instead of Steam Power. This is mostly to make Metallurgy more important to research, but coal is really a charcoal like substance which surely must have been experimented with in the process of metallurgy, even if they never did find the stuff very important.
-Oil: Available with Industrialization instead of Refining. Just reading the Description in the civilopedia makes this one make sense. Crude oil had it's uses and was experimented with as a fuel during Steam Power and Industrialization, but coal was clearly the prefered fuel of choice. After refining this began to change of course, and it makes best all-around sense to give it with Industrialization.
-Rubber: Available with Electricity instead of Replacable Parts. Rubber was useful for a very long time, but it makes a really great insulator for electrical cords and wires. Makes sense to me!
-Aluminum: Available with Mass Production instead of Rocketry. I'm trying to make it coincide with when the most effective method for producing aluminum was discovered in the late 1800s, and Mass Production seems to fit in with other uses of it also. The world supply of tin didn't cause aluminum to be heavily developed until quite a while later, so it shouldn't be needed for units earlier. This method of making aluminum requires electricity, but that would be too early for it to be found MP seems like the perfect place to me.
Any better ideas?
-Uranium: Available with Atomic Theory instead of Fission. Discovered in the late 1700s, uranium is one of the most valuable metals in the world...at least now adays. Seems a perfect fit with Atomic Theory when people started spending a lot of time playing with glowing rocks and trying to figure out what they could use them for.
On a sepperate note, isn't uranium used for the manufacture of advanced conventional weapons? Hm...
-Wines: Now available with Pottery. It makes sense even though animal skins were the main container for wines, beer in fact was stored in pots in ancient egypt. I still want improvements to produce resources so I could make a Brewery which turned Barley (strategic resource would be best) into the luxury resource of Beer. So many possibilitys...maybe in Civilization 4? Riiiight...sure, let's just keep telling ourselves that.
-Incense: Now available with Mysticism. Probable the best fit with Ceremonail Burial, this still makes sense in that the primary use of incense is religious/spiritual based and I wanted to have another reason to research Mysticism.
-The Oracle: Now availabie with Polytheism instead of Mysticism.
The main reason is to make it available a little later and help give more value to Polytheism. I think an Elephant Rider kind of unit should really go in Polytheism too and perhaps change Ivory to being Elephants. I'm not sure if you can just leave it as a luxury resource or not...would be nice though, and I could set the appearance ratio of it too. It's an idea, but we'll leave it till a later date for more consideration.
Anyhow, the real-world reason for this is that The Oracle became used because of the more widespread polytheistic belief systems of Rome/Greece. Polytheism really was just an advancement on the original "mysticism" (note: common day defiinition of "mystic" and "mysticism" is most often totally different than this historical definition. The currently used definition is: Mysticism, noun - 1. Immediate consciousness of the transcendent or ultimate reality or God. The experience of such communion as described by mystics. 2. A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience.), and thus The Oracle best fits into Polytheism. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
neoxese
|
|
Raleigh, NC US
Nov 2001
time: 00:16
|
|
Rubber is "plantable". In fact all the rubber we are using come from rubber forest planted by humans.
"silicon" as a limited resource would have made so much more sense.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Badtz Maru
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by neoxese
Rubber is "plantable". In fact all the rubber we are using come from rubber forest planted by humans.
"silicon" as a limited resource would have made so much more sense. |
Silicon is one of the most common elements on Earth. Making it a strategic resource would make about as much sense as making saltpeter one...hey, wait a minute... 8^)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Claymore
|
|
New York State
Nov 2001
time: 00:16
|
|
Trying to use the partisan will of course crash CIV in the .6 version. The folder is missing. Hopefully it was added to .7 version,though it was not specifically mentioned in the .7 highlights.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
axxessdenied
|
|
Canada
Nov 2001
time: 05:16
|
|
I have a request for the install program... can you change it so that it doesn't create a new directory Civilization 3? I have Civ3 installed in a folder called Civ3, and it just makes it a pain copying all the files over =\
|
|
| |
|
|
|
BoredGamer
|
|
The reason why a nuclear reactor should be near water is that water is the most commonly used coolant in reactors. Although there are alternatives, some Soviet submarines use a liquid metal coolant (lead bismuth).
Although of course the water can be piped to the plant, there are quite a few reactors in a desert in idaho.
This is a very basic picture of a nuclear power plant, notice that there are 2 seperate systems using water (both of them are colored blue), There is also a 3rd system that is not shown. The first system is the primary coolant, which is a closed system (meaning no water is added or removed from the system except under special circumstances). And this water actually circulates THROUGH the reactor core, and keeps it cool (Very important).
The second system removes the heat from the water in the first system, and uses it to make steam. this is what powers the turbine, which is where the electricity is generated. This is also a closed system (usually). A third system is run throught the turbines to cool the second system. This is usually an OPEN system, meaning water is piped in, and when it is heated it is then vented off. The big towers you see in pictures of nuclear power plants are cooling towers, the "smoke" you see coming out of the top of them is actually steam, from the third cooling system.
As a side note, nuclear power really should NOT require computers, the computer use in most power plants was very minimal for a very long time, and mostly solid state. The plant does not require a computer to operate, they are mostly used for saftey equipment, monitoring, and automation. These things were just done manually in the period of time before computers were readily available. Consider the fact that we basicly had the ability to build a power plant in 1945, the first operational plant (to the best of my knowledge) was built in 1953. The first nuclear powered sub (USS Nautilus) Was built in 1955. This was BEFORE computers small enough to be placed on a sub were widely available.
On yet another side note (yes, I'm long winded too). Nuclear Battleships? To the best of my knowledge they have not only never existed, but probably never will. The closest to this would be a couple of Battle Cruisers built by the Russians in the cold war era, (The Kirov Class). But the truth is that the Aircraft Carrier has replaced the primary role that battleships used to have as centerpiece of an attack group. Battleships are still usefull for shore bombardments, but not so much for ship to ship fighting (except using thier retro-fitted missles). When was the last battleship built by any country? World War II. The vast majority of nuclear powered naval vessels are submarines, there are also several aircraft carriers, and the US navy has quite a few nuclear "cruisers" (they are more realisticly destroyers, except that they are primarily anti-aircraft platforms, with the exception of the USS Longbeach).
Last edited by BoredGamer on 29-11-2001 at 05:22
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kolyana
|
|
quote:
puddlin around on a twig. |
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA.
Erm.
Yes. Anway.
Did something get done with privateers? Have you got any control over colonies?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Plutarck
|
|
Earth
Nov 2001
time: 23:16
|
|
monkspider: Thanks alot for the compliment! Sorry for the delay in responding, but it kinda got lost on the last page and forgot to respond 
And good work on your mod. Good luck to you on it, I'm sure all of you working on it will make it excellant
BoredGamer: This is one of the purks of doing this. I love this stuff 
Computers removed from nuclear power and computers added for Advanced Naval Warfare now. Thanks alot for the info 
Kolyana:
As for Colonys, now that you mention it...there is absolute no entry for anything regarding colonys. None whatsoever...grr.
Highly annoying. So many things could be done...you know, like making them not suck.
As for the Privateer, all kinds of changes. I'm not sure that there is even 1 single naval unit in the game that hasn't undergone a major change.
In order of cost, attack, defense, movement, bombard strength, range, and rate of fire - done in order of appearance:
Galley: 3, 1/1/3, 0/0/0 (upgrades to Caravel)
Warship: 4, 2/2/3, 2/1/1 (upgrades to Frigate)
Caravel: 4, 1/2/4, 0/0/0 (upgrades to Galleon)
Frigate: 6, 3/3/4, 4/1/2
Privateer: 7, 2/2/4, 2/1/1 (upgrades to Corporate Privateer)
Ironclad: 8, 5/4/3, 6/1/2 (sinks in Ocean)
Corporate Privateer: 7, 3/3/4, 4/1/1
Steel Warship: 10, 7/6/7, 7/1/2
Submarine: 12, 7/6/3, 0/0/0
Destroyer: 12, 10/7/5, 8/1/2 (sees Submarines, upgrades to Modern Destroyer)
And there's still 10 naval units I haven't mentioned (and I skipped Galleon in there)
Daveraver: Excellant, excellant, excellant, and I'd just prefer you carry them around in one of those sachel things. Children are heavy.
Then again I'd actually have to obtain some children...but hey, I hear they're parks full of 'em! Which is where I want 'em to stay!
Oh yeah, and "excellant" (almost forgot).
Thanks alot
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Claymore
|
|
New York State
Nov 2001
time: 00:16
|
|
One small oversight in .7 version. The worker illustration...when you are in the city mode...instead of seeing the workers illustratration you see the number 90. So for the next version.....
Thanks Plutarch for all your hard work...I am having a great time with your MOD. One more thought...is there a way...maybe with a better editor in the future to have a privateer entity.ie...have a privateer settler and in essence create another player in the game...controlled of course by one of the human players...some very interesting puppet government possibilitys :-)
Another idea...natural resouce "work arounds". Allow countrys to develope a synthetic alternative to a needed resource...but at a very stiff research price.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kestrel
|
|
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Jul 1999
time: 05:16
|
|
One of the current problems with Civ III (it seems to me) is the inability to easily cut and paste from various mods to build up a composite modpack (like you could a little more easily with Civ II primarily by cutting and pasting the Rules.txt).
There fore - Is there any chance of including the Tin Resource idea (as a prereq. for Bronze units) as suggested by Harlan in another thread, or the Copper Resource ( as a prereq for Bronze units and many of the more modern units such as Infantry (Cased Ammunition) and machinery (electrical wiring)) as per The English Cossack's "Copper, Zinc and Nickel Resources Mod" into your Mod ?
These might better simulate the early resource struggles that beset Civs in the Pre Iron age.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Tyrannus
|
 |
Minneapolis, MN
Mar 1999
time: 23:16
|
|
Hey Plutarck,
Have you seen the various 'Resource Labels' mods?
With your permission I'd like to mod your resource.pcx file to include labels. In fact I would do several versions since there are a variety of ways that people seem to want them.
What do ya say?
BTW, you may know me as 'Sleepy Eddie' from ChronX...
Last edited by Tyrannus on 01-12-2001 at 00:43
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Plutarck
|
|
Earth
Nov 2001
time: 23:16
|
|
Tyrannus:
Actually, that gives me an idea. If you want a good idea would be to create a resource.pcx file with many/all the currently released icons so any modmaker can use them if they want them, and also to previde the Resource Labels addition to just that.
That way you'd only have to work on 1 version of the file of the file.
What slots the resources take up would be up to you (or whoever wanted to do it), but I'd certaily use it and set the Icons my .bic uses to fit whatever slots they take up.
But either way, you certainly have my permission to use the resource.pcx file and apply resource labels to them. I really like that mod too
And heya, which faction were/are you with in CX? The name rings a bell but I can't quite remember fully...
Gwayne, Desert Dog, Colony Bug:
I am suddenly getting quite a few reports about the installer going screwy like that. Here's the website of it: www.zerog.com
It's used by many major corporations and is supposed to work on just about every kind of platform there is, but I am only using the Win32 option. Perhaps I'll use the "other Java-enabled platform" option and provide that for download to people having trouble.
I'll try to provide a manual install if the installer decides it wants to be a pain in the arse.
About uninstalling: Due to how the game handles mods it's often required to have to uninstall/reinstall Civ3 to get it working properly again, because you have to replace default files for the game to make it work. Highly annoying, but gotta blame the game for that one.
Also I don't know of any installer system which makes it easy to copy files it replaces so it can then put everything back exactly the way it was before you installed it.
Perhaps some programmer could put together a program for all mod-makers and mod-users to use (after we see what's changed in the next patch) which handles installing/switching between different mods?
Something like the "Modswapper" for CTP2. I like the idea and would work on it myself if I wasn't busy with LWC
On sepperate notes, I think the way resources are used really is due for a more complete revamping, but it will require some sustained effort, and I have to "iron" some other things out first
One problem is with the game itself where changing the req'ed resources for units from events/techs/buildings isn't possible, so to do any such addition you'd basically have to add copys for all such units you want to change. More labor intensive than it should be, certainly.
It should reflect that we use oil in the way we do, for instance, because oil is available. If oil didn't exist does anyone think we just wouldn't have cars or planes?
If we found out we'd be totally out of oil in 20 years we'd find a replacement, without a doubt, just like how tin got replaced with aluminum.
But with all the current limitations it would be far harder to do than it should be.
So I'll concentrate on more "tweaking" than "total overhaul" for the time being.
Otherwise the time between new versions wouldn't be a few days, but multiple weeks, and game improvements would take much longer to see.
Best to tweak for now and save the overhauls until the game as a whole has "developed" more
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Albatou
|
|
Installer is being evil to me too. Tells me the magic number didn't match : get another copy of the installer and try again. ???? Do I have to download the utility from zerog's website? Oh well.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
skar760
|
|
Cologne/NRW, Germany
Dec 2001
time: 05:16
|
|
Hi. I'd really like to test your mod but I get crashes en masse after having installed your mod. I posted one of the errors below (translated from German) which occurs frequently when browsing the civilopedia. The one below occured when I tried to view the entry for Chichen Itza. Other similar errors occur when I am scrolling.
my system: PIII/700 512MB ram WIN98 2nd ed.
Can anyone help me?
CIVILIZATION3 caused an error due to an invalid Page
in module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 024f:0054f0af.
Register:
EAX=00000000 CS=024f EIP=0054f0af EFLGS=00210246
EBX=00873938 SS=0257 ESP=00abf85c EBP=00000000
ECX=ffffffff DS=0257 ESI=01310e18 FS=11a7
EDX=00000000 ES=0257 EDI=5f485341 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
f2 ae f7 d1 2b f9 8d 54 24 2c 8b f7 8b fa 8b d1
Batch Values:
005ea2c4 01310e18 00000420 005ea2c4 00000000 005aa3d8 00000000 ffffffff 00000000 4d070000 00000000 00000000 00abf8b0 bff7a10e bff7b326 822fa000
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FalloutBoy
|
|
I have been following this mod for a while now. I am looking forward to trying it after the official patch is released. I have a few comments on it, especially version 0.8. Sorry it's long, but I've been saving them up.
Corruption exists in the game for a very good reason. To prevent unrealistic globe-spanning empires. I am concerned that you may have added so many corruption-reducing buildings that these huge empires are possible again. Especially National Unionization and Global Security Agency (no such thing in reality), which effective reduce corruption in ALL cities. Plus, does the AI know how to build these things? I don't even think the AI is aware that corruption exists. The Thought Police has the same effect, but at least that one has some drawbacks.
Stone is extremely common in reality and I'm not sure what effect making it required for some wonders will have on the AI. Hopefully nothing, but still it is not that difficult to come by in reality, and too many resource icons can clutter up the map. Just my opinion. I would get rid of saltpeter too, since any junior chemist can make it himself.
I like Imperialism, but it sounds like it might be too good. It allows you to pop rush, but without the corruption penalty of despotism. Maybe we should just wait and see if the patch affect this ability, because currently corruption is the only penalty to the despotism pop rush strategy.
Colonialism I don't like because in reality it was more of a policy than a gov't. I'm thinking of England, France, Spain, Portugul, Netherlands during the "pirate years" (more on this below). Plus I'm not sure we really need a gov't that is "Not quite as warlike
as Communism, not quite as peaceful as Democracy."
Luxury resources are supposed to bring happy faces only. By making a city improvement require grapes (Vineyard), now grapes are more of a strategic luxury, and they are more valuable than any other luxury. Plus a vineyard alone doesn't make people happy or increase revenue any more than a wheat field. I could see myself trading a bunch of luxuries just to get grapes so I can build vineyards in all my cities. I would remove Vineyard and make Great Winery a small wonder that you can only build if grapes are in your city radius.
If pollution-causing improvements have negative culture, shouldn't things like mass transit (San Francisco cable cars) and recycling have positive culture? Maybe they already do, I forgot to check.
The age of gov't-sponsored piracy was relatively short, so I don't think we need the Corporate Privateer. My idea was to change the English unique unit to a souped-up privateer called Pirate Ship. This is still in line with historical accuracy and is more interesting to me than the worthless Man-of-War unit. I would set the regular privateer's attack rating equal to the defense rating of a frigate (it should be possible to kill a frigate, but pretty tough) and set the defense to 1, since typically pirates were known for sneak attacking and running away. Then make the Pirate Ship a little higher attack rating. I think this might make early sea travel more exciting, assuming the AI would know how to use them.
In the game I am currently playing, I had barely had enough time to upgrade a couple of my muskets to rifles before I discovered infantry (maybe requiring rubber was supposed to make them harder to build or something). I hope you fixed this part of the tech tree. I'd like to actually build a rifleman unit someday. I also have swordsmen running around with my tanks, but the Partisan should fix that problem. :-)
Is it possible to reduce corruption just for expansionist civs? The problem with this trait is that no matter how much you expand, you'll still eventually get hit by corruption as with any other civ. So rapid expansion is not necessarily as great as it sounds at first. The pioneer unit seems overpowered in the early part of the game, which is not when expansionists need any help. Maybe if there were city improvements that only an expansionist could build.
These are all just my opinions and I could be wrong. Don't take any of this personally because I know you have worked hard on this and you have done a really good job.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:16.
Apolyton Time is 00:16. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
28-11-2001 02:35
Desert Dog
I just had to buy the LE edition! Okay I will stop complaining, the game will be good one day if they EVER get the patch done! Peace! 
|