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Zealot
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Lisboa, Portugal
Jun 2000
time: 05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecowiz Returns
Regarding Wonders and Triggering the Golden Age:
I believe we are starting to have a problem here:
- If Zealot is right and Wonders are not an easy way (at least not as easy as winning a battle with a UU) to start GA then the Portuguese Civilization is bound to become handicaped. |
Thats exactly what I've been talking about.
It seems that the "date" of a GA to trigger is also related. For what I read, the Americans have a great difficulty in triggering an early GAwith wonders, since their UU is the late F-15. The same happens with the Germans, or even the French. On the other hand, Civs like the Egiptians or the Greeks usualy have an early GA if they build a wonder with the needed atributes. But it's still far more expensive, slow and difficult to trigger a GA with it in the place of a victorious UU.
quote:
Originally posted by Ecowiz Returns
Regarding the Nau (or Nao as it seems to be the prefered name):
Again, this is the opinion of someone who never played CIV III.
However, I see the Nau much like a pretty armless (ie no attack points) big carrier ship (ie, with one or 2 more carry points than the caravel) and maybe quicker than the caravel (I can accept it is not as accurate as the rest).
The problem I have with the Portuguese UU as it is proposed in the main thread is that it is much weaker than the Dutch's in all the aspects, when, to be accurate, it's not that clear that it was. The Portuguese were much tied with the Dutch when accounting all the battles they won against each other.
But as a pro-expansion, non military unit (I know some don't agree with this particular point) I whould prefer a
Nau like this 0:2:5 (5). |
Ecowiz, keep it Nau. 
And forget about the idea of an armless ship. Just forget it.
Now, about those battles against the Dutch, we could do a little research on historic battles, and make a comparison on how is going to be the Dutch UU. And then discuss on how tweeked should the Portuguese UU be.
As for now, I propose that we start thinking on either the Templar, 5/3/2, needs horses and feudalism; or the Nau, 1/2/5 (4), needs navigation, and acts like a Galleon when magnetism is discovered (ie, doesn't get lost when magnetism is discovered). This will make the portuguese to have a unit like the galleon, but before anyone else can, since the others only have caravels. And the Nau should not need an upgrade to the Galleon.
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Ecowiz Returns
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Portugal
Aug 2001
time: 05:16
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Jay Kay's suggestion looks fine by me too.
Zealot, I believe it is your call.
 Question: Should we open this question to another thread, with a poll, so that everybody may vote?
If so, Zealot could prepare an explanation about the Knights of The Order of Christ (or the Post-Templar Knights, or the Knighs Former Known as The Templars... ).
Jay Kay, can you prepare the Explanation about the Nau?
About the Bandeirantes - It's a nice idea, carioca, but i have a feeling it would put the Golden Age, again, after the time it should be, ie, the end of the Medieval Age. But, maybe in Civ it is not the case.
What do you think: should it also enter the poll?
Maybe we can mature the idea a little bit: for instance, everybody posts here the description of the UU (carioca, you could do the Bandeirantes), refering the historical context, and the strategic implications, the required techs and resources...; then we put them is a new thread.
What do you think?
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Zealot
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Lisboa, Portugal
Jun 2000
time: 05:16
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I've been watching the Civilopedia entry for the galleon, and made a little research about the portuguese ships too.
My oppinion is that the Nau is like a galleon, but it was used by the Portuguese before other European countries. But to be honest, I think that by the time Brazil was discovered, Magnetism (or what is described in the Civilopedia as such) had already been "discovered".
In short, the Portuguese had better caravels and galleons than others for - I think I can say - a couple of centuries.
Now, to make just a UU, and since the Nau is more useful than a caravel, we have to compare the Nau with the galleon in Civ 3.
So I propose that the Nau should be the Portuguese UU when Navigation is discovered, doesn't get lost (since they discovered the Azores around 1420, and that's pretty ocean tiles around those islands ), isn't replaced by the galleon, but has the same price as the galleon (so that one can still build a caravel, which is cheaper, since it was also used by the Portuguese), AND has +1 movement AND +1 transportation capacity than the galleon. This bonus is extremely necessary to reflect the large number of colonies founded in both Western and Eastern Africa, India, China, Indonesia and Brazil, in such a short amount of time.
Case closed.  
I don't have time to make a research for the knights. Read the url I posted about them in page 2 (I think) on this thread.
Now, whose call is it now? 
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Zealot
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Lisboa, Portugal
Jun 2000
time: 05:16
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I prefer the first and fourth pictures.
Last edited by Zealot on 04-02-2002 at 18:22
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All times are GMT. The time now is 05:16.
Apolyton Time is 00:16. |
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12-12-2001 16:14
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