20-04-2002 04:31									#571
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

As this thread is over 500 posts I suggest that you, at your next update, post a new thead, and clean this up from old attachments, and then PM me and I'll do the moving and closing.

I don't want to rush you, this thread will stay open until you are ready to start a new one.

	20-04-2002 04:52									#572
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

ok gramphos no problem

	20-04-2002 14:41									#573
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Some suggestions:

Rename "Theater" to Playhouse, to mirror what it was called a the time. (Colluseum is called so but the modern equivalent (sports ground, boxing ring) is named differently. Make a museum wonder called "National museum"(small Wonder), "L'Ouvre", "World Museum of Science"(Big Wonders) or something like that. (Purely cultural and smiley faces bonuses) available at the same time as Museum (wherever you decide to put it at). (Museology, Archaelogy, Nationalism?)

Thanx.

	24-04-2002 06:09									#574
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

ok a quick update

i haven't heard from the sprint job, but i have put in lots of applications and i heard back from walmart, i go in for my third and final interview monday (it's only about half the pay of sprint but it will free my schedule up ALOT), but i have put in my notice at my current job and have asked them to schedule me for less hours, and so i will resume work on the blitz mod but first i am going to try one unmodded game just for test purposes

anyways, all of the changes we've discussed will be in along with legions being normal swordsmen with +3 hitpoints instead of increased movement...basically a normal legion counts as a vet swordsman etc

the other big change i mentioned a while ago is that palaces will give +1 happiness and happiness levels will go down by 1 on all difficult levels above regent (i still haven't decided on regent yet)

so outside of the capital on emperor and diety ALL citizens will start out as unhappy

any comments?

i will start a new thread when i post beta8

sorry about the hiatus

	24-04-2002 18:22									#575
	missiles... Suffering from ads?

hi korn and everybody,


-the two kinds of cruise missiles (asm+ssm) i suggested before will probably be unnecessary given that we'll have fighters,jetfighters and f15-s able to sink ships

though it could be better to change the missile to air unit now if that'd be possible to set naval ships to "transports only airunits" with "transports only tactical missiles" and this'd mean that we could load air-missiles onto cruisers and subs while they couldn't base aircraft.
this has to be tested.

it could be immobile+rebase+load and should have range of at least 6 (maybe the max 8) to be effectively usable in land campaigns.

-battleships should be able to carry some missiles i think

	24-04-2002 20:19									#576
	Get a bigger avatar today!

kettyo

i'll see if i can get air cruise missiles to work (what i mean by work is get them to load onto the appropriate ships in the right way, if i do get that to work then they will have stealth and precision strike, leathal sea, but i think i'll drop leathal land)
btw i had battleships carry cruise missiles before but since as a naval power unit the AI couldn't handle it i dropped it, so i will bring this feature back, except it will carry less cruise missiles than either the Aegis Cruiser or the nuclear sub

	25-04-2002 15:50									#577
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by korn469 they will have stealth and precision strike, leathal sea, but i think i'll drop leathal land

-why stealth?
it's good to be able to shoot them down isn't it?
and for such strikes you'll need some air superiority (won't easily smash a carrier with a stored pack of missiles)

-lethal land is really necessary
the main purpose of this unit (for me) would be to DESTROY enemy units inside cities which otherways is almost impossible even now (city bombing bug still present)
also the main reason for increased range

	25-04-2002 17:57									#578
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

i also suggest making parisan unit NOT load onto ships and NOT airlift for obvious reasons...

	27-04-2002 01:58									#579
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Status update, korn? When will beta8 be finished?

	27-04-2002 02:05									#580
	Put an end to popups!

possibly tonight
it depends on how late i stay up and how late my girlfriend stays over...i'm haven't finished playing out my test game but i have what i needed from it

hehe so if i asked for a vote i bet i'd get something like stay up till it's finished...though i won't have the art ready for it

one question

should i keep the grenadier? now that i can give the rifleman multiple AI's the grenadier loses alot of its value imo

	27-04-2002 03:04									#581
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Regarding the grenadier, do whatever keeps the AI's from using partisans as their main offensive units in the early industrial age (it was annoying like hell for me). If offensive riflemen do the trick, then drop grenadiers.

Off-topic: If you'd ask me for a vote, I'd say don't spend any time on Civ3 when your girlfriend is present.

	27-04-2002 05:46									#582
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

well she had to go home a few minutes ago, so after a little bit of arguing in the civ3 general thread, i'm off to make the .bic from a fresh civ3 install

	27-04-2002 06:02									#583
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ok who gave the blitz mod a vote of one?

please list why you think it sucks so bad so i can fix these things, if you don't give me feedback i can never improve what you think is wrong with it

	27-04-2002 09:44									#584
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Korn, what did you mean by 'graphics'? Did you mean to provide links to graphics for some of the new units or did you mean to actually include the graphics with the units in the download? Possibly even both?

My suggestion to you, Korn, is for you to get it right before you release it, and if that means not releasing it than so be it.

I guess this means it's going to be time to start playing Civ3 again...is this a good thing or a bad thing?

	27-04-2002 09:54									#585
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Korn, what did you mean by 'graphics'? Did you mean to provide links to graphics for some of the new units or did you mean to actually include the graphics with the units in the download? Possibly even both?

i was referring to all of the little art files to make the buildings and units show up correctly for now for the bare bones download

though i have been looking over the unit graphics here and on civ fanatics and have found some i think that will work for an art heavy download

	27-04-2002 12:50									#586
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by lockstep Regarding the grenadier, do whatever keeps the AI's from using partisans as their main offensive units in the early industrial age (it was annoying like hell for me). If offensive riflemen do the trick, then drop grenadiers.

korn,

i agree with lockstep about that.
anyways when you keep grenadiers i would also add a modern era grenadier unit (an offensive non-wheeled infantry unit) which could be called as "combat enginners" or something like that.
best would be that this unit fights best in hard and urban terrain while basically sucks on open field, but this is civ3 not panzer/peoples general unfortunately.

	28-04-2002 08:24									#587
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ok anyways about the partisans

here is what i'm doing to them

they will be offensive and artillary AI
1.1.4 40 shields 1 pop though i have yet to decide on their exact bombard damage i am still considering that, but they will have a bombard range of 2...but their bombard will be leathal to land units
they will also be invisable and i will try them with hidden nationality
also they will have -4 to their hitpoints, so a regular partisan will have 2 hitpoints, and an elite will only have 8

special forces/commandos will be about the same
they will be 16.8.5 invisable, see invisable, -4 hitpoints, blitz, amphibious, and airdrop with a range of 8

basically they are a partisans worst nightmare

status: ok i added all of the new stuff last night and did some editing of things i know i'm not going to change, but i still have to decide on somethings

no promises because my girlfriend's uncle died today, but it should be out tommorrow, i'm tired and i'm not going to make any changes tonight

Last edited by korn469 on 28-04-2002 at 08:32

	29-04-2002 11:04									#588
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

status: ok i'm working on the readme, which i will post in an hour or so, and then i will post an artless beta8 tommorrow after i make a few last minute corrections and have a final rundown of things

	29-04-2002 12:45									#589
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__________________________

Blitz Mod 1.06beta8 Readme
__________________________

Changes to Units

Non-combat Units
Settler 0.0.1 50/3 (wheeled) {Colonist}
Colonist 0.0.2 60/3 Navigation
Worker 0.0.1 10/1 {Engineer}
Engineer 0.0.1 20/1 (all terrain as roads)
Scout 0.0.3 10 (invisable) {Explorer}
Explorer 0.0.6 20 (invisable) Astronomy

Ancient Land Units
Warrior 1.1.1 10 {Legionary}
Jaguar Warrior 1.1.2 10 {Warrior}
Archer 2.1.1 20 {Longbowman}
Bowman 2.2.1 20 {Archer}
Spearman 1.2.1 20 {Pikeman}
Hoplite 1.3.1 20 {Spearman}
Impi 1.2.2 20 {Hoplite}
Chariot 1.1.2 10 (wheeled) {Mounted Warrior} horses
War Chariot 1.1.3 10 (wheeled) {Rider} horses
Swordsman 3.2.1 30 {Grenadier} iron
Immortals 4.2.1 30 {Swordsman} iron
Legionary 3.2.1 30 (+3 hit points) {Immortals} iron
Horseman 2.1.2 30 {Rider} horses
Mounted Warrior 3.1.2 30 {Horseman} horses
Catapult 0.1.1 4[2]1 20 (wheeled) {Cannon} iron

Middle Age Land Units
Pikeman 2.3.1 30 {Musketeer} none
Longbowman 5.1.1 40 {Grenadier}
Knight 4.3.2 60 {Coassack} horses, iron
Rider 4.3.3 60 {Knight} horses, iron
Samurai 4.4.2 60 {Rider} iron
War Elephant 4.3.2 60 {Samurai}
Musketman 3.4.1 40 {Rifleman} saltpeter
Musketeer 4.4.1 40 {Musketman} saltpeter
Cavalry 6.3.3 80 {Panzer} horses, saltpeter
Cossack 7.4.3 80 {Cavalry} horses, saltpeter
Cannon 0.1.1 8[4]1 40 (wheeled) {Artillary} saltpeter, iron

Industrial Era Land Units
Grenadier 8.4.1 60/1 {Marines} Nationalism
Rifleman 6.8.1 60/1 {Infantry}
Infantry 10.12.2 80/1 {Mech Infantry} rubber
Partisan 1.1.4 14[4]2 40/1 (invisable, hidden nationality, -4 hitpoints) Replaceable Parts
Marine 15.10.2 100/1 (amphibious unit) rubber
Tank 20.10.3 100/1 (blitz, wheeled) {Modern Armor} oil, iron
Panzer 20.10.4 100/1 (blitz, wheeled) {Tank} oil, iron
Paratrooper 12.12.2 [8] 110/1 (airdrop) oil, rubber
Special Forces 16.8.5 [8] 120 (airdrop, amphibious, invisable, see invisable, blitz, -4 hitpoints) Amphibious Warfare
Artillary 0.1.2 16[5]2 80 {Radar Artillary} iron

Modern Land Units
Modern Infantry 14.18.2 110/1 (blitz) rubber
Mech Infantry 16.24.4 120/1 (blitz, wheeled) oil, iron, rubber
Modern Armor 32.16.4 120/1 (blitz, wheeled) oil, iron, rubber
Radar Artillary 0.1.3 20[6]2 120 (blitz, radar, wheeled) oil, aluminum
Cruise Missile 0.0.1 15[8]5 60 (tactical missile, cruise missile, foot soldier, load, airlift) aluminum
Tactical Nuke 0.0.1 0[0]8 130 aluminum, uranium
ICBM 0.0.1 (ICBM) 250 aluminum, uranium

Ancient Naval Units
Galley 0.1.2 10|1 (sink in sea, sink in ocean) {Caravel} NONE
War Galley 2.2.3 30 (sink in sea, sink in ocean) {Sloop} Map Making

Middle Age Naval Units
Caravel 1.1.4 40|2 {Galleon} Astronomy
Sloop 3.3.5 4[4]1 40 {Frigate} Astronomy
Frigate 6.5.2 8[4]1 60 (all terrain as roads, blitz) {Ironclad} Magnetism saltpeter, iron
Man-O-War 8.6.2 8[4]1 60 (all terrain as roads, blitz) {Frigate} Magnetism saltpeter, iron
Galleon 1.2.5 50|4 {Transport} Magnetism
Privateer 4.2.7 50 (hidden nationality, zoc) {Commerce Raider} Navigation saltpeter, iron

Industrial Era Naval Units
Ironclad 10.9.3 10[5]1 90 (all terrain as roads, blitz) {Destroyer} Steel iron, coal
Transport 0.6.3 100|8 (all terrain as roads) Mass Production oil
Destroyer 12.15.5 12[5]1 110 (can see submarines, zoc, all terrain as roads, blitz) {Aegis Cruiser} Mass Production iron, oil
Battleship 25.20.4 16[6]2 200|1 (can carry tactical missiles, carry foot units only, all terrain as roads, blitz) Mass Production iron, oil, coal
Carrier 0.12.4 200|5 (radar, doesn't carry bombers, all terrain as road) Advanced Flight oil, rubber
Submarine 16.6.4 110 (can see submarines, zoc, all terrain as roads, blitz) Mass Production oil
Commerce Raider 15.12.15 130 (hidden nationality, zoc) Mass Production iron, oil

Modern Naval Units
Aegis Cruiser 16.24.5 12[5]1 160|3 (can see submarines, radar, can carry tactical missiles, carry foot units only, all terrain as roads, blitz) aluminum, uranium
Nuclear Submarine 10.14.4 150|3 (can see submarines, can carry tactical missiles, all terrain as roads, blitz) aluminum, uranium

Industrial Era Air Units
Fighter 5.5.2 12[4]6 100 (blitz, leathal sea) {F-15} oil, rubber
Bomber 0.2.2 10[8]8 120 (blitz, foot soldier) {Jet Bomber} oil, rubber
Helicopter 0.2.3 0[0]6 100 (can see submarines/invisable units) oil, rubber

Modern Air Units
Jet Fighter 15.15.3 15[5]8 150 (blitz, radar, leath sea) oil, aluminum
F-15 18.18.3 15[5]8 150 (blitz, radar, precision strike, leathal sea) {Jet Fighter} oil, aluminum
Jet Bomber 0.6.3 18[8]8 180 (blitz, radar) oil, aluminum Rocketry
Stealth Fighter 0.6.3 18[4]8 150 (blitz, radar, stealth, foot soldier) oil, aluminum, uranium
Stealth Bomber 0.3.3 20[8]8 300 (blitz, radar, stealth, foot soldier) oil, aluminum, uranium

Armies
Army -.-.1 100|2 (army, blitz, pillage)
Modern Army -.-.1 130|4 (army, blitz, pillage) Radio
__________________________

Changes to Combat Experiance
Conscript 4hp 25% retreat
Regular 6hp 50% retreat
Veteran 9hp 60% retreat
Elite 12hp 75% retreat
__________________________

Changes to Terrain
*All terrain defensive bonuses set to 0% except in jungles, forrest, hills, and mountains
*Jungle changed to 1.1.0
*Mountains changed to 0.2.0
*Tundra changed to 0.1.0
__________________________

General Settings Changes
*Chance of Rioting is now 25%
*Worker value in shields is now 25
*Turn Penalty for Each Hurry Sacrifice is now 20
*Turn Penalty for Each Drafted Citizen is now 30
*Future Tech Cost now 500
*Minimum Research Time now 1 turn
*Maximum Research Time now 48 turns
*Cities Needed to Support an Army now 2
*Chance to Intercept Enemy Air Missions now 90%
*Chance to Intercept Enemy Stealth Missions now 5%
*Fortification Defense Bonus now 35%
*Citizen Defensive Bonus now 24
*Building Defensive Bonus now 24
*Basic Barbarian is now a Swordsman
*Advanced Barbarian is now a Knight
*Barbarian Sea Unit now War Galley
__________________________

Changes to Citizens
*Scientist now provides 3 research and comes with Education
*Tax Collector now provides 3 taxes and comes with Currency
__________________________

Changes to Difficulty Level

Cheiftain
Cost factor 30
Number of Citizens born content 5
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 1000%

Warlord
Number of Citizens born content 3
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 50%
Percentage of optimal cities 100%

Regent
Number of Citizens born content 2
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 0%
Percentage of optimal cities 100%

Monarch
Number of Citizens born content 1
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 0%
Percentage of optimal cities 100%

Emperor
Number of defensive land units 8
Number of offensive land units 4
Number of start unit type one 1
Number of start unit type two 2
Number of Citizens born content 0
Addition Free Support 16
Bonus for each city 4
Max government transition time 2
Cost factor 6
AI to AI trade rate 160
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 0%
Percentage of optimal cities 90%

Deity
Number of defensive land units 10
Number of offensive land units 6
Number of start unit type one 2
Number of start unit type two 4
Number of Citizens born content 0
Addition Free Support 20
Bonus for each city 5
Max government transition time 1
Cost factor 5
AI to AI trade rate 180
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 0%
Percentage of optimal cities 75%
__________________________

Changes to Diplomats and Spies
*Build an Embassy cost 15
*Investigate City cost 5
*Steal Technology cost 8
*Steal World Map cost 1
*Plant Spy cost 45
*Steal Plans cost 5
*Initiate Propaganda cost 60
*Sabotage Production cost 8
*Expose Enemy Mole cost 60
__________________________

Changes to World Sizes

Tiny
Optimal Cities 12
Tech Rate 75
Starting Distance 9

Small
Optimal cities 14
Tech Rate 115
Starting Distance 12

Standard
Optimal cities 20
Tech Rate 150
Starting Distance 18

Large
Optimal cities 28
Tech Rate 215
Starting Distance 24

Huge
Optimal cities 36
Tech Rate 280
Starting Distance 32 (editor max)
__________________________

Changes to Governments

Anarchy
0 police
1/1/1 2 support
0 draft
tile penalty
high war weariness
1 worker rate
0 assimilation
catastrophic corruption
conscript spies
immune to build embassy
no building upkeep

Despotism
3 police
3/3/3 1 support
2 draft
tile penalty
no war weariness
1 worker rate
forced labor
0 assimilation
rampant corruption
regular spies

Monarchy
2 police
2/3/4 1 support
2 draft
low war weariness
2 worker rate
paid labor
1 assimilation
nuisance corruption
regular spies

Communism
3 police
4/5/6 2 support
3 draft
tile penalty
no war weariness
3 worker rate
paid labor
3 assimilation
communal corruption
elite spies
immune to investigate city
no building upkeep

Republic
0 police
2/2/2 2 support
1 draft
high war weariness
trade bonus
2 worker rate
paid labor
2 assimilation
problematic corruption
regular spies

Democracy
0 police
1/2/3 2 support
1 draft
high war weariness
trade bonus
3 worker rate
paid labor
4 assimilation
minimal corruption
regular spies
immune to propaganda

Fascism
4 police
10 free 2/3/4 2 support
3 draft
no war weariness
trade bonus
2 worker rate
forced labor
0 assimilation
problematic corruption
regular spies
immune to tech steal
__________________________

Changes to Culture

In awe of
Culture Ratio 3:1
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 60%
Initial Resistance Chance: 20%
Continued Resistance Chance: 15%

Admirers of
Culture Ratio 2:1
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 50%
Initial Resistance Chance: 35%
Continued Resistance Chance: 30%

Impressed with
Culture Ratio 5:4
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 40%
Initial Resistance Chance: 50%
Continued Resistance Chance: 45%

On par with
Culture Ratio 4:5
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 30%
Initial Resistance Chance: 60%
Continued Resistance Chance: 55%

Unimpressed by
Culture Ratio 1:2
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 20%
Initial Resistance Chance: 70%
Continued Resistance Chance: 65%

Dismissive of
Culture Ratio 1:3
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 10%
Initial Resistance Chance: 85%
Continued Resistance Chance: 80%

Disdainful of
Culture Ratio 1:10
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 1%
Initial Resistance Chance: 100%
Continued Resistance Chance: 95%
__________________________

Changes to Improvements and Wonders

Improvements
Capital
Palace 100/1/0 Center of Empire, +1 Happy

Happiness
Temple 60/1/1 +1 Happy (Religious)
Colosseum 120/2/2 +2 Happy
Cathedral 160/2/2 +3 Happy [Temple] (Religious)

Economic
Marketplace 100/0/1 +50% Tax Output, Increases Luxury Trade (Commercial)
Bank 160/0/3 +50% Tax Output [Marketplace] (Commercial)
*Stock Exchange 240/0/4 +50% Tax Output [Bank] (Commercial) The Corporation

Trade
Harbor 80/0/1 Allows Water Trade, Increases Food in Water (Commercial, Coastal)
Air Port 160/0/2 Allows Air Trade, +50% Luxury Output 1 Pollution {Oil} (Commercial)

Military
Walls 20/0/0 +50% Defense, 12 Bombard Defense (Militaristic)
Coastal Fortress 40/0/1 16 Naval Power, 12 Naval Bombard Defense {Iron, Saltpeter} (Militaristic, Coastal)
Barracks 80/0/1 Veteran Ground Units (Militaristic) Warrior Code
*Naval Base 120/0/2 Veteran Sea Units [Harbor] (Militaristic, Coastal) Astronomy
*Airforce Installation 160/0/3 Veteran Air Units {Oil} (Militaristic) Flight

Production
*Mill 160/0/2 +25% Production, Must be Near a River; Engineering
Factory 240/0/4 +50% Production, 2 Pollution {Iron}
Manufactoring Plant 320/0/5 +50% Production, 1 Pollution [Factory] {Aluminum}
Coal Plant 160/0/4 +50% Production, 3 Pollution [Factory] {Coal}
Hydro Plant 240/0/4 +50% Production, Must be Near a River [Factory] {Iron}
Solar Plant 320/0/4 +50% Production [Factory] {Rubber}
Nuclear Plant 240/0/4 +100% Production, 1 Pollution, Must be Near Water, Can Explode or Meltdown [Factory] {Uranium}
Offshore Platform 240/0/3 Increases Shields in Water, 2 Pollution (Coastal)

Research
Library 80/1/1 +50% Research Output (Scientific) Writing
University 200/3/3 +50% Research Output [Library] (Scientific)
*Public School 200/1/2 +50% Research Output
Research Lab 240/0/4 +50% Research Output [University] (Scientific)

Corruption
Courthouse 80/0/1 Reduces Corruption
*Newspaper 120/0/2 Reduces Corruption, Resistant to Propaganda [Library] Printing Press
Police Station 180/0/2 Reduces Corruption, Reduces War Weariness [Courthouse]

Growth
Granary 60/0/1 Doubles City Growth Rate
Aqueduct 100/0/1 Allows City Size Level 2
Hospital 160/0/2 Allows City Size Level 3

Pollution
Mass Transit 200/0/3 Removes Population Pollution {Rubber}
Recycling Center 200/0/3 Removes Building Pollution

Cultural
*Amphitheater 80/3/1 Literature
*Opera 160/6/2 Music Theory
*Museum 240/9/4 [Theater] Atomic Theory
__________________________

Wonders
Happiness
Hanging Gardens 300/0/4 3 happy, 1 happy in all cities {Ind} Polytheism
Oracle 300/0/4 [2x Temple] Doubles happiness of temples {Rel}
Sistine Chapel 600/0/6 [2x Cathedral] Doubles happiness of Cathedrals {Rel}
JS Bach's Cathedral 600/0/6 [2x Cathedral] 2 happy, 2 happy in all cities {Rel, Con}
Cure for Cancer 1000/0/8 [2x Research Lab] 6 happy, 2 happy in all cities {Sci}

Economic
Colossus 200/0/2 +1 trade in all trade producing squares {Ex, Com, Coa)
Wall Street 300/0/1 [5x Banks] Treasury Earns 5% {Com}

Trade
Great Lighthouse 300/0/2 [2x Harbor] Safe Sea Travel, +1 Ship Movement {Exp, Com, Coa}
Magellan's Voyage [2x Harbor] 400/0/3 +1 {Exp, Com, Coa}
Smith's Trading Company 600/0/3 Pays Maintenance for trade Installations {Com}

Military
Great Wall 200/0/2 Doubles combat vs. Barbs, Doubles City Defens {Mil, Ind}
Sun Tzu's Art of War 600/0/3 Barracks in every city on the continant {Mil}
Leonardo's Workshop 600/0/3 Halves upgrade cost {Mil}
Universal Suffrage 900/0/4 Reduces war weariness in all cities {Mil}
Manhattan Project 800/0/0 [2x University] Allows all civs to build Nukes, 1 unhappy in all cities {Mil, Sci, Ind} Uranium
Heroic Epic 200/0/2 Increased chance of leaders, Requires a victorious army {Mil, Rel}
Military Academy 400/0/1 Build armies without leaders {Mil}
Pentagon 400/0/1 Build larger armies, requires 4 armies, requires a victorious army {Mil}
Strategic Missile Defense 800/0/1 [5x SAM batteries] Decreased chance of missile attacks {Mil, Sci}
Intelligence Agency 400/0/1 Allows spy missions {Mil, Sci}
Battlefield Medicine 500/0/1 [5x Hosptial] Healing in enemy territory {Mil}

Production
Hoover Dam 1200/0/3 gain hydro plant in every city on continent, must be near a rive {Ind}
Iron Works 400/0/1 +100% production, 4 pollution, requires coal and iron in city radius {Ind}

Research
Great Library 400/0/5 [2x Library] Gain any advances owned by two civs {Sci}
Copernicus's Observatory 400/0/4 doubles research output {Exp, Sci}
Newton's University 500/0/6 [2x University] doubles research output {Sci}
Theory of Evolution 600/0/5 +2 free advances {Sci}
SETI Program 1200/0/6 [3x University] doubles research output {Sci, Exp}
Apollo Program 500/0/2 build spaceship parts {Sci, Ind} Aluminum

Corruption
Forbidden Palace 150/0/1 reduces corruption {Exp, Rel}

Growth
Longevity 1200/0/4 [2x research Lab] city growth causes +2 pop {Sci, Exp}

Pollution
N/A

Cultural
Pyramids 300/0/4 gives an obelisk in each city on the continant expires with Nationalism {Ind, Rel}
Shakespeare's Theater 400/0/16 [2x Theater] 2 happy, +50% Luxury Output
United Nations 1200/0/15 Allows diplomatic victory {Exp, Com}
__________________________

Space Ship Parts
SS Thrusters 600 Aluminum
SS Engine 1200 Aluminum, Uranium
SS Docking Bay 300 Oil, Rubber
SS Cockpit 600 Aluminum
SS Fuel Cells 300 Uranium, Rubber
SS Life Support System 600 Aluminum
SS Stasis Chamber 600 Aluminum
SS Storage/Supply 300 Oil, Rubber
SS Planetary Party Lounge 300 Oil, Rubber
SS Exterior Casing 1200 Aluminum, Uranium
__________________________

Changes to Civs

Rome: Militaristic, Commercial
Government Preference: Fascism, Democracy
4 AG
Offensive, Naval, Air, Workers, Wealth, Trade

Egypt: Industrious, Religious
Government Preference: Communism, NONE
2 AG
Workers, Growth, Production, Happiness, Culture

Greece: Scientific, Commercial
Government Preference: Democracy, Communism
2 AG
Workers, Production, Science, Wealth, Trade, Culture

Babylon: Scientific, Religious
Government Preference: Democracy, Communism
2 AG
Growth, Production, Happiness, Science, Culture

Germany: Militaristic, Scientific
Government Preference: Fascism, Democracy
5 AG
Offensive, Naval, Air, Production, Science, Culture

Russia: Expansionistic, Scientific
Government Preference: Communism, NONE
4 AG
Naval, Growth, Production, Science, Explore, Culture

China: Militaristic, Industrious
Government Preference: Communism, Democracy
5 AG
Offensive, Workers, Naval, Air, Growth, Production

America: Industrious, Expansionistic
Government Preference: Democracy, Fascism
4 AG
Workers, Naval, Air, Growth, Production, Explore

Japan: Militaristic, Religious
Government Preference: Fascism, Democracy
4 AG
Offensive, Naval, Air, Growth, Happiness, Culture

France: Industrious, Commercial
Government Preference: Democracy, Anarchy
2 AG
Wokers, Growth, Production, Wealth, Trade

India: Religious, Commercial
Government Preference: Democracy, Communism
1 AG
Workers, Growth, Happiness, Wealth, Trade, Culture

Persia: Industrious, Scientific
Government Preference: Democracy, NONE
3 AG
Workers, Growth, Production, Science, Culture

Aztecs: Militaristic, Religious
Government Preference: Communism, Democracy
4 AG
Offensive, Naval, Air, Growth, Happiness, Culture

Zulu: Militaristic, Expansionistic
Government Preference: Communism, Democracy
5 AG
Offensive, Naval, Air, Growth, Explore

Iroquois: Expansionistic, Religious
Government Preference: Democracy, Fascism
3 AG
Naval, Growth, Happiness, Explore, Culture

English: Expansionistic, Commercial
Government Preference: Democracy, Communism
3 AG
Workers, Naval, Growth, Production, Wealth, Trade
__________________________

Changes to Resources

*All strategic resources set to have a disapperance rate of 900
*Oil can now be in plains
*Game can now be in jungle
__________________________

Changes to Technology

*Moved Map Trading from Map Making to Navigation
*Moved Communication trading from Writing to Magnetism
*Moved Mutual Protection Pacts from Nationalism to Espionage
*Moved appearance of Aluminum to Mass Production
*Moved appearance of Uranium to Atomic Theory
*Advanced Flight is now a required tech
__________________________

Last edited by korn469 on 02-05-2002 at 01:19

	29-04-2002 20:24									#590
	Got spare money?

I won't comment on matters of taste (like Obelisks ), but noticed a few glitches/problems (maybe they're only in the readme):

• War chariots should upgrade to knights as in v1.21f.
  
• To smooth ot things, the no. of optimal cities should be 16 for a small map (tiny = 12, normal = 20).
  
• The tech rates have changed generally in v1.21f - e.g. the rate for a standard map is 240 now. You may want to re-check your changes.
  
• The defense bonus for the palace should be dropped because of its weird effects.
  
• The prereq for museums should be Communism (an optional tech) instead of Atomic Theory, as we already happened to agree.
  
• The combination of a pop cost of 1 for industrial/modern land units with a higher draft penalty may cause massive AI self destruction. Unless you have tested this feature heavily, I suggest to drop it.
  
• Due to the vastly (about 100%) increased costs of spaceship parts, the AI may never actually go for a space victory (player1 reported this effect for a 150% increase). I don't have a clue what to do about this one at the moment - the modern age needs a general overhaul IMO.

I really like the idea to get rid of defense bonuses for 'normal' terrain. In fact, I was going to suggest it for beta8.1.

P.S.: Communism with unit support costs of 2, but no building upkeep? This could be ... interesting

	29-04-2002 21:30									#591
	Remove this text

lockstep

as you have noticed there is still glitches in the readme that i am sorting out, i just got really tired last night and i thought i had most of the major things corrected in it, but obviously i missed a few things

quote: War chariots should upgrade to knights as in v1.21f

chariots are 1.1.2 10
war chariots are 1.1.3 10
horsemen are 2.1.2 30

so either the egyptians should be able to build both horsemen and war chariots, or war chariots should upgrade to horsemen, because while war chariots are useful for their cost i'm not sure if the egyptians are better off without horsemen

quote: To smooth ot things, the no. of optimal cities should be 16 for a small map (tiny = 12, normal = 20)

ok sounds good

quote: The tech rates have changed generally in v1.21f - e.g. the rate for a standard map is 240 now. You may want to re-check your changes

i skipped the entire tech section last night because i haven't edited tech rates yet and i have only glanced at their changes

quote: The defense bonus for the palace should be dropped because of its weird effects

it has been, this is something i missed in the readme (thanks for pointing that out )...the palace now provides +1 happiness...which is vitally important on harder levels (look at the difficulty level changes)

quote: The prereq for museums should be Communism (an optional tech) instead of Atomic Theory, as we already happened to agree

i'm torn about this, i certainly agree in principle about attaching culture buildings to optional techs, yet communism already provides police stations and the communist form of government while atomic theory provides nothing, so spreading out things in the tech tree to have fewer filler techs is competing with that and i'm not sure yet which one to go with

quote: The combination of a pop cost of 1 for industrial/modern land units with a higher draft penalty may cause massive AI self destruction. Unless you have tested this feature heavily, I suggest to drop it

first thing the draft penalty is less than what it was in the 1.17f patch, secondly if you draft a 1 population unit it still only costs 1 population, so you are basically trading your shields for unhappiness, in my test games a 20 turn draft penalty seemed weak for the benefit it gave you, however if they have changed the mechanics of drafting i will change this

quote: Due to the vastly (about 100%) increased costs of spaceship parts, the AI may never actually go for a space victory (player1 reported this effect for a 150% increase). I don't have a clue what to do about this one at the moment

did player1 change the civ's build priorities? solo reported in one of his test games that the AI seemed to be more likely to build the spaceship than in 1.17f if it had the production

quote: I really like the idea to get rid of defense bonuses for 'normal' terrain

good
plus i also made fortifying 10% stronger, to counterbalance this

quote: Communism with unit support costs of 2, but no building upkeep

communism should be a strange government to play right now, it has high flat corruption and the tile penalty, yet it also has paid labor, no building upkeep, and elite spies, along with good police, no war weariness and the best support in the game i am hoping that is a balanced and useful form of government

as you notice anything else point them out to me so i can correct them tonight

	29-04-2002 22:01									#592
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by korn469 chariots are 1.1.2 10 war chariots are 1.1.3 10 horsemen are 2.1.2 30 while war chariots are useful for their cost i'm not sure if the egyptians are better off without horsemen

And that's why war chariots should directly upgrade to knights (skipping horsemen).

quote: i certainly agree in principle about attaching culture buildings to optional techs, yet communism already provides police stations and the communist form of government while atomic theory provides nothing, so spreading out things in the tech tree to have fewer filler techs is competing with that and i'm not sure yet which one to go with

While fewer filler techs are the way to go, atomic theory has nothing to do with museums IMO ... but I'll have to leave the decision to you.

BTW, a sugestion to get rid of another filler tech: Make the Hanging Gardens available with Polytheism instead of Monarchy.

quote: first thing the draft penalty is less than what it was in the 1.17f patch, secondly if you draft a 1 population unit it still only costs 1 population, so you are basically trading your shields for unhappiness

I agree with your reasoning, but am still afraid that the AI can't cope with this feature.

quote: did player1 change the civ's build priorities? solo reported in one of his test games that the AI seemed to be more likely to build the spaceship than in 1.17f if it had the production

player1 didn't mention any change in that regard. OTOH, his tests were done under v1.17f, so things may be different now.

quote: as you notice anything else point them out to me so i can correct them tonight

I'm perusing the readme right now. BTW, could you give the details of cultural levels, including the new one 'on par with'?

	29-04-2002 22:07									#593
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

BTW, I noticed that you're going the same way as player1 regarding lethal bombardment: Yes, but only for fighters etc., and only lethal sea bombardment.

...

'In korn469 and player1 we trust.'

	30-04-2002 00:15									#594
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Some other possible errors:

• Cossacks really have +1 attack compared to Cavalry?
  
• The 1000% attack bonus vs. barbarians at Chieftain is a typo, isn't it?
  
• Public Schools (late-game science buildings) shouldn't produce culture (like the Research lab).

	30-04-2002 04:30									#595
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: And that's why war chariots should directly upgrade to knights (skipping horsemen)

all i can say is D'oh!
i thought you meant they didn't need horsemen, sorry about the miscommunication

quote: BTW, could you give the details of cultural levels, including the new one 'on par with'?

yes i'll put those up soon, i was too tired to do it last night

quote: BTW, a sugestion to get rid of another filler tech: Make the Hanging Gardens available with Polytheism instead of Monarchy

good idea

quote: Cossacks really have +1 attack compared to Cavalry?

yes

quote: The 1000% attack bonus vs. barbarians at Chieftain is a typo, isn't it?

nope, chieftan is going to be a training wheels level in my mod, you should always win at it, while diety should be so hard that most players lose consistantly

quote: Public Schools (late-game science buildings) shouldn't produce culture (like the Research lab)

i was thinking of the reason it had culture was because of political socialization...basically what you learn in school helps shape your out look on politics, world affairs, etc.
but i'm flexable on this, if you want it out we can kill it

quote: Make Colonists/Engineers only slightly costlier than Settlers/Workers (that is, 60/20 shields), and give them a defense value of 1 so they can't be captured

ok no problem about the cheaper cost, but why do you want to make them uncapturable? i don't mind having it that way but i was just wondering what you were thinking

	30-04-2002 21:13									#596
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by korn469 ok no problem about the cheaper cost, but why do you want to make them uncapturable? i don't mind having it that way but i was just wondering what you were thinking

To make the upgrade more worthwile. If I have to invest more shields for colonists and workers, then I'm happy to know that no enemy will make use of them - they can 'only' kill them. OTOH, this is probably a matter of taste, and the more so because colonists haven't been important in any of my test games so far.

BTW, the beta8 readme is obviously a work in progress.

	30-04-2002 22:40									#597
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

i'm not quite ready to release beta8 to the public, but those of you who are interested in testing out a pre-beta8 copy send me a private message and i will send you a copy of that when i get home tonight

lockstep

yea it is

ps

if you know of anything we've discussed in the past for beta8 that i have forgotten about please let me know, it might not be in the readme yet, or i may have forgotten about it, either way it will be a help

	30-04-2002 23:15									#598
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by korn469 lockstep if you know of anything we've discussed in the past for beta8 that i have forgotten about please let me know, it might not be in the readme yet, or i may have forgotten about it, either way it will be a help

So far only one thing: In the first beta version of 1.06, you included changes to worker jobs. To be more specific, you increased the expense for building railroads and clearing pollution somewhat (from 12/24 in the original version of Civ3 to 15/30) and reduced the expense for building fortresses drastically (from 16 to 6). The change to fortresses was a very interesting idea IMO.

	30-04-2002 23:45									#599
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Another issue occured to me. Quite some time ago, I suggested to include the 'preliminary discovery of strategic ressources'. This feature was (IIRC) at first included in Plutarck's Long Winded Changes mod and was also part of Vel's noname mod. In these mods, every strategic ressource became available somewhat earlier on the tech tree (e.g. Iron with Bronze Working, Saltpeter with Invention). The reasonings were as follows:

• Gameplay: Possibility to a) trade the ressource without giving away a crucial tech b) plan ahead wars with a limited (i.e. ressource-driven) object.
  
• Realism: The idea that a certain natural phenomenon is indeed a valuable ressource normally arises somewhat before the ressoure is actually useful.

To be honest, I'm still not sure if this feature is a definite improvement to the basic game or just a matter of taste. After all, if you don't have access to a certain ressource, workarounds (e.g. units that don't require this ressource) are often available. HOWEVER, things may be different for aluminium and uranium, which are required for a space victory. Maybe it's just me, but if I don't own these ressources, I want to know this fact before the modern age, so I have the option to forge some long-term alliances to get them by force. In the LWC mod, aluminium became visible with Mass Production and uranium became visible with Atomic Theory, i.e. both in the late industrial age. This is appropriate IMO, and you may want to adopt it for the blitz mod.

P.S.: It would also allow for the separation of Atomic Theory and Museums.

	01-05-2002 03:24									#600
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, I don't have enough time to give a thorough reply, but I do have a few things to say.

First off, great job.

Secondly, do you realize that a battleship will be able to move 75 spaces in one turn? For the units that have the 'count all terrain as roads' ability should have their movement rate lessened. Maybe you just overlooked this, I don't know. As a matter of preference I think you should move the galley to map making, and add in the outrigger (or coracle) as the starting out naval unit. The outrigger would be 0.0.1 10|1 (sink in sea, sink in ocean). Then make the galley become available at map making and be 0.0.2 20|1 (sink in sea, sink in ocean). However, this might make it a be redundant. Either way, though, the war galley should be 0.0.1 30 (sink in sea, sink in ocean, count all terrain as road). This will stop the war galley from making an attack (if winning) and then being able to still move. The same goes for the rest of the ships but some balancing issues will have to be taken care of. I think making ocean squares cost two movement will help prevent early game expansion, but have no ill effects on modern age naval units because of there 'count all terrain as roads' attribute. Basically, make it harder for transporting boats to cross the ocean by increasing the movement cost for ocean, keep it the same movement pace for 'war boats' by giving them the 'count all terrain as roads' attribute, and lower (balance) the movement points of certain units that have the 'count all terrain as roads' atrribute.

Barbarians should have a little bit weaker of units, IMO. Here a few possible combos: war charriot/swordsmen - horsement/swordsmen - horsemen/immortals -
mounted warrior/immortals

Lockstep, I think that idea for resources is a good one.