 |
| |
|
|
korn469
|
 |
Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
|
|
quote:
CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 016f:00403036.
Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=016f EIP=00403036 EFLGS=00010206
EBX=005cb848 SS=0177 ESP=00abf3ac EBP=01570eb0
ECX=005d5e40 DS=0177 ESI=005d5e40 FS=2bb7
EDX=00000313 ES=0177 EDI=00000000 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8b 80 3c 01 00 00 83 c1 58 8b 50 04 52 e8 e8 d8
Stack dump:
00000000 004063e3 00000000 005a3c40 005ce988 005d4ab4 0000002f 00000000 0058bf02 005cb848 005121fd 0b881710 00abf528 005993bb ffffffff 004191ce |
ok doing some play testing and when i went to build the war galley here is the crash i got...
which is virtually identical to the last crash i got, which leads me to think that the war galley is causing the crash, but everything in the editor looked fine, so i think somehow the .bic file got corrupted, so let me try something else and see if i can fix it
EDIT: it looks like i am going to have to rebuild the blitz mod's .bic file, going all the way back to beta7.0 because i deleted beta7.3 yesterday, so i'll post that later tonight
Last edited by korn469 on 15-03-2002 at 06:34
|
|
| |
|
|
|
kettyo
|
 |
Budapest, Hungary
Mar 2002
time: 06:16
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by korn469
modern infantry --> light infantry? |
korn,
I think marines and paratroopers also fall into the light infantry category.
quote:
Originally posted by korn469
ok so here is the list of possible units to add to the blitz mod
*sloop, a warship that comes with astronomy that is weaker than a frigates and sinks in oceans
*special forces, a guerrilla unit (either invisable or hidden nationality) that cost alot of shields but no pop and is amphibious plus can airdrop and is primarily made to fight partisans
*commerce raider, a moder version of the privateer, historically something like one of the german pocket battleships
*modern infantry, a unit that falls between infantry and mech infantry and is draftable
*supersonic bomber, a moder version of the bomber that doesn't have stealth
*modern worker(engineer), the name says it all
___________________________________
these are more debatable ideas
*spy plane/AWACS, currently impossible to do properly with the editor, but a super recon plane
*assault carrier/amphibious task force, currently impossible to do properly with the editor, but something like the USS Tarawa, that carries helicopets, harriers, and lots of marines
*SAM, currently impossible to do properly with the editor, but a ground based unit that could move with modern forces to give them some airprotection
*attack helicoper, unsure about this one, but if i did implement it it would go with the assault carrier
please if you have any ideas for other units please suggest them |
Main problem with recon plane is that you can recon once in each turn. I don't think they'll fix this in a patch. So consider giving fighters,jet fighters, and f-15-s see subs ability for some realism.
What about the air missile idea?
Don't You think it'd fit in also a "combat engineers" unit, on the same basis as the grenadiers, just with modern-day stats (also could upgrade)?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
TechWins
|
 |
Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:16
|
|
quote:
how does that sound to everyone? |
That sounds fine to me, but I'm not sure if that will really solve much. The English UU is weak and needs to be changed. Possibly a specialized infantry unit that could move 3 instead of 2...a Red Coat? This unit would be able to retreat against older (i.e. Cavalry) unit that could move 2 and also stop modern day (i.e. tanks) from being able to retreat. In my opinion, this would be a very nice unit.
Concerning the names of the newly added units: I, too, think the prefix of "modern" on every new unit is quite lame. How about for the modern day armies you go back to one of your old unit names "Generals". Or "Skilled Armies" or "Trained Armies"? Basically something along those lines. And for the newly added infantry unit...I like this idea a lot and I think "Light Infantry" is a sufficient enough name for them. For "Advanced Artillery" why not go old school and change the name to "Howitzer"? Instead of having the "Modern Armor" as one just one unit split it up into two units: "Heavy Armor" and "Light Armor" (change the names as you please)...the stats for these units could be as follows:
Current "Tank" stats: 20.10.3 10|1 zoc, wheeled, blitz
Current "Modern Armor" stats: 32.16.4 12|1 zoc, wheeled, blitz
My proposal:
Split the "Modern Armor" up into two units
"Heavy Armor" stats: 33.18.3 13|1 zoc, wheeled, blitz
"Light Armor" stats: 27.14.4 11|1 zoc, blitz
Basically this gives a little more variety with combined arms and such.
Some other comments:
I think that you should lower the max research rate from 50 to 48. While this may seem like a small decrease in the number, it could play a huge role in the game. Lets say that for the first 6 techs you discover you had to research them all the way through 50 turns. If that number were changed to 48 then you would have saved 12 turns of researching. Not only does it save you 12 turns of researching but it also gives the Civ it's techs faster, which in turn indirectly decreases research times (researching goes faster). It may seem as if I'm discredint my argument but those facts are the basis of my argument. If that Civ had to research all 50 turns then it would be going through the tech tree very slowly and would be researching techs in unhistorically correct times (i.e. republic in 1000ad). Yes, researching goes a lot faster now because of "tech whoring" but in the early part of the game that is partially solved. Not to mention that isolated Civs are put at a huge disadvantage with the current technology system. I think a 48 turn cap would balance things out a little more.
Now it's known that going the "money" route instead of the "researching" route is more efficient (as long as you have Civ neighbors). Well, to counteract this how about lower the cost of the University, Research Lab, and Public School each by 2. Then increase the cost of the Marketplace, Bank, and Stock Exchange by 2 (yes I know you already increased the Stoch Exchange cost once before). Hopefully the different costs will make investing in science more appealing.
An idea for early naval units situation (just an idea! ) would be to give Map Making another prereq of Construction. Then make the outrigger the opening naval unit with zero reqs (0.1.1 1c 1t sink in seas, oceans), have the outrigger upgrade to galley (req Map Making 0.2.2 3c 2t sink in seas, oceans), and also add the wargalley unit in too (req Map Making 2.2.3 4c sink in seas, oceans). In doing that, though, a few other changes would have to be made for balance. Drop the 2 Harbor req for the Great Lighthouse and lower the cost of Harbors from 8 to 6. Now for my reasoning behind all of the madness...This still prevents too much naval expansion early on (even more IMO) yet keeps everything balanced (again even more IMO). The outrigger will be extremely useless in the expansion aspect of it all, but will still be able to serve it's purpose of transporting a Settler in case of being in a jungle/mountain area. The galley still won't be able to expand much with it's limited movement rate, but will still serve it's purpose of transporting more units to a little bit farther away places. The wargalley will be able to explore the most out of the 3 early units, but because of it's high cost you won't want to lose one of these units while being in a sea/ocean square. Therefore, trying to explore with these units will be a risk, but the wargalley will still be able to serve it's purpose (and very effectively I'd like to add) of destroying naval transports.
quote:
so how does this sound, instead of calling them theaters, call them amphitheater which has strong greek and roman overtones
then like you said make it come with literature which would make it a worthwhile tech once more
and making it required for the opera (which is another good idea) which would keep the same stats as the old theater...also operas seems to be more present in other cultures than what theaters are, and it overlaps less in function |
I like that a lot more than the current way. Also, I'd go with the name amphitheatre...it sounds cooler to me and has more flavor than theatre.
For all of your new unit ideas there are most likely graphics already made for similar units at Civ Fanatics.
BtW, nice! 45 downloads on a beta version within two days...not too bad.
Oh yeah, what it is with you always putting off the terrain changes I suggest. I thought you liked the ideas of giving mountains a 2 bonus shield to start off with and giving jungle 1 shield right away?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
korn469
|
|
Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
|
|
techwins
a short set of responces, since i'm heading out the door
quote:
The English UU is weak and needs to be changed. Possibly a specialized infantry unit that could move 3 instead of 2...a Red Coat? |
well if we were going to give them a new CSU, since historically they have been masters of the sea, we could give them a new battleship unit, and call it a Dreadnought (as in the HMS Dreadnought)
while that wouldn't be quite historical it would probably be better historically than a redcoat unit
however, i would prefer a longer time frame for the sailing ships era, so that frigates (and Men-o-War) would be more useful, so i'll mess around with this and see what we can improve on
also like Tridotan1 alluded to, if you research flight as the last required tech in the industrial era and you re a scientific civ, you discover flight and rocketry on the same turn, this happened to me last night
the names sound fine, and i'll use something along those lines, though i don't think i am going to add in light armor and heavy armor units, and i want to be cautious about adding any new units at all, because i don't want to have any superfluous units...everything needs a role to fill so that all units show up in a player's arsenal
damn...i need to leave but i'll be back in a little while
one last comment...i didn't purposely forget the terrain changes, i just didn't write them in the list of upcoming changes, and all you need to say is YOU FORGOT THE TERRAIN CHANGES
anyways
upcoming changes
jungle goes to 1.1.0
mountains go to 0.2.0
fascism free units goes to 10 from 15
|
|
| |
|
|
|
lockstep
|
 |
Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
|
|
Some observations from my first completed testgame with beta 7.5:- Test result: Armies can be upgraded to Modern Armies both empty and loaded with units. However, the upgrade can only be performed in the city that built the Military Academy. (While I'm typing ... I guess barracks are a second requisite, though I didn't try without one.)
- Postponing of map/communication trading and especially of MPP's made for a quite different game. No 'world-war' situation in the Industrial Age this time. Tech whoring is also reduced because of the decreased tech devaluation. OTOH, not being able to trade maps to known civs makes the technology Map Making rather pointless. I'd say, keep these features in the mod for now and reassess them when the next patch is out.
- Due to my conversion from builder style to hybrid style (necessary to survive and prosper on monarch), I encountered the scenario I've been criticizing for quite some time: The Indians, who bordered my civ (the Chinese) to the west, had a stronger culture, which was largely due to the fact that they had managed to build the Pyramids. (Obelisk in every city ... you know the story.) I decided to wage a limited war to round off my territory. Having conquered two Indian cities, I wanted to switch back to builder mode, but the Indians wouldn't acknowledge my envoy. So I geared up my Rider production, conquered another two cities and suddenly found myself in control of the Pyramids. After that, my relative culture went through the roof in a little while due to my brand-new obelisks. Gaining culture because of waging war ... sorry, it just doesn't feel right.
- Another case of a completely passive and stagnating AI civ occured. This time, it was the Japanese who started on a large subcontinent, separated from three other civs by jungles and a mountain chain. The AI founded its first city (Kyoto), sent a warrior to the south (and found me, so I knew of its existence), and that's all. Next time I checked (already in the middle ages), the Japanese still had one measly city with no improvements at all. At first, I blamed this pathetic peformance to the changes you did to the building traits (sorry, korn), but then I noticed that the AI's only city (and therefore, capital) didn't have a palace. So I guess the Japanese became the easy prey of a massive barbarian uprising and the ransacking barbarians destroyed their palace in 3300 BC (Kyoto's culture production had stopped at 14 points when I investigated the city). Somehow, this incident must have paralyzed the AI for the rest of the game (after all, it didn't have the possibility to reload ). Conclusions for the mod-maker: a) drop the defense bonus of the palace, and b) consider to weaken the barbs so that the AI can handle them.
Regarding upcoming changes ... this is only the list for beta 7.6, isn't it? For beta8, I'm also hoping for- Renamed 'culture-only'-buildings ((amphi)theater, opera, museum),
- Symmetric judgement of cultural levels,
- A different kind of Pyramids.
Last edited by lockstep on 19-03-2002 at 02:33
|
|
| |
|
|
|
korn469
|
|
Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
|
|
ok i am going to try to sort out the problems people have brought up and address them, this post will be strange because i am going to post it and then go back and edit it some because i'm going to be in and out
quote:
The British special unit (man-o-war) is useless. |
this is a complaint from Tridotan1
quote:
The English UU is weak and needs to be changed. |
this is TechWins backing him up
now what exactly is the problem, what causes it and how can we fix it?
ok the problem isn't with the english CSU, the problem is with naval units in general and the frigate in specific
the first thing is that naval units aren't as essential as land units, which there isn't much we can do about it
in civ3 there is 25 required techs max between galleys and frigates
there is 4 required techs max between frigates and ironclads
there is 5 required techs max between ironclads and destroyers
there is 3 required techs max between destroyers and battleships
there is 13 required techs max between battleships and Aegis Cruisers
ok, now what can we do without a complete overhaul of the tech tree?
well here is the bandaid solution i am proposing for now
we move the ironclad to steel
we move the destroyer to mass production
and finally we move the aircraft carrier to advanced flight
what that would do
25 required techs max between galleys and frigates
7 required techs max between frigates and ironclads
4 required techs max between ironclads and destroyers/battleships
this also solves the problem of being able to build the USS Ronald Reagan before the anyone has even heard of Kitty Hawk North Carolina
_________________________
ok the next complaint is from Tridotan1
and basically is states that the prop driven airpower era is too short, and i agree
right now the only bandaid solution i can see is to make advanced flight be a required tech, so a scientific civ at least gets a small oppertunity to build prop driven planes
_________________________
ok the next complaint is from techwins about 50 turn max tech rate
he had a number of arguments, but the one that really hit home was this one
quote:
isolated Civs are put at a huge disadvantage with the current technology system. |
so what i am going to try is this...
to make the minimum tech rate be 1 and the max be 48 and see how that changes things
_________________________
ok the next complaint is from techwins
quote:
Oh yeah, what it is with you always putting off the terrain changes I suggest |
that is my bad, they should have already been in but i somehow overlooked them, anyways i'll do as the man says
_________________________
ok the next complaint is from techwins
quote:
Gaining culture because of waging war |
this refers to the pyramid and it's culture bonus
now we come to the why is gaining this culture bad from a gameplay point of view
basically the strongest arguement is that you don't get culture when you capture wonders, however if you captured J.S. Bach's Cathedral then you would get all of the happiness, and the pyramid's effect is it's culture
so the best bandaid approach i can think of right now would be to make the pyramids go obsolete...the following techs would be the most appropriate in my opinion
monotheism, gunpowder, democracy, nationalism, or communism
the other bandaid has some drawbacks, and that would be to give the pyramids a 1% defensive bonus, so that if your city with them was ever sacked or captured then the pyramids would disappear
_________________________
the next complaint is from lockstep
quote:
drop the defense bonus of the palace |
i too have noticed alot of freaky things from the palace having a defensive rating
so consider it gone for now
anyways i didn't see any other real complaints, just suggestions and i will address those tommorrow and release beta7.6 tommorrow as well
i'm going to bed for now
Last edited by korn469 on 19-03-2002 at 11:13
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tridotan1
|
|
Thankyou for assesing my "complaints".
quote:
ok the problem isn't with the english CSU, the problem is with naval units in general and the frigate in specific |
Ah, but there is something we can do about it. At the moment land power plays a huge role in wars, air power a medium one and naval power a pathetically small one. Why? Because it takes about 10 turns to sail an AEGIS cruiser from one side of the world to the other on a medium sized map. On a "huge" sized map it takes about 20 turns to sail it to your nearest rival and a hec of a while to sail it to your furthest. Infact, you have usually either invented a better unit and made it obsolete, won the war, lost it or made peace by the time any ship gets to the "action zone". You would have to think through carefully about this, but you could consider increasing naval movement considerably.
And the problem is the English CSU as well as naval units being quite useless. What good is a unit with one more attack than the regular when their is no point in controlling the seas and no AI ships to whoop the ass of. i firmly reccomend (if possible) stretching out the prop-flight period and making British Spitfires or some kind of modern naval unit (since the British Navy kicks ass to put it simply)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
korn469
|
|
Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
|
|
ok i got to thinking, since this is going up on the firaxis site, and since beta8 was going to be out soon, why not just go ahead a work on it now
so in addition to all of the beta7.6 changes we've discussed
i want to know the bare minimum number of new units we need to add to the blitz mod in all of your opinion, i have a small unit list, and i want to know what all of you think
in addition to the new units, i am also going to be adding the new cultural level, and a new small wonder, the victory arch which will be a cultural small wonder made particularly for militaristic civs
also do any buildings need to be renamed? any units? chime in now 
Tridotan1
sorry if complaints sounded harsh, but i was tired and most of the best feedback is in the form of good complaints, and i am going to try out the things i discussed in beta7.6 to make the MoW a better CSU, but if not i'll bump up the speeds, the only problem with really high speed naval units is that they can go from one port to the next, and it also kinda takes away some of the strategy you see with land units, right now battleships and carries move at 10 (compared to 5 and 4 in 1.17f) if i did increase them what levels were you thinking of?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tridotan1
|
|
quote:
right now battleships and carries move at 10 (compared to 5 and 4 in 1.17f) if i did increase them what levels were you thinking of? |
I don't know, i was kinda going to leave that up to you, but the fact is, naval units suck with a capital S. Anyways, the more new units the better and I think that you should change the British CSU to something like:
Spitfires (fighter)
HM Aegis Cruisers (better name if possible) (Aegis Cruisers)
Silent Hunters (submarine)
Imperial Infantry (Infantry)
Celtic Warrior (warriors)
Highlander (Rifleman)
Brithish Commandos, Green Berets (whatever name) (marines)
Red Devils (paratroopers)
Harrier Jump Jet (jet fighter - increased target area, better precision striking, more movement. NOT better combat or bombard)
SAS (modern infantry - if added)
As to the navy. You could add a whole new element of gameplay, make the game more fun and make naval untis better by introducing, wait for it...
TORPEDOES
these could be a) a far better version of bombard which can only be effective on ships (so good that it could sink a battleship with three hits)
b) as above but individual units which must be built then loaded on to ships. (be used as many times as user wants, with ships still able to attack and move.)
c) cruise missile copy with the ability to go on water. Probably the easiest but by far the lamest nontheless , it would still be good. Problems with this option are the fact that you might be able to leave torpedoes stranded between turns, the fact that you have to steer the thing them bombard it and watch it blow up as if from the sky makes it less realistic and cool.
You could then expand the idea by making anti-sub missiles, anti torpedo-missiles and the lot. I know this doesn't blance the gameplay but it makes it more fun and realistic. And as I said before, the more units the better.
P.S it wouldn't be beyond a graphics designer to design the torpedo or the British special unit if you asked them.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
TechWins
|
|
Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:16
|
|
quote:
i want to know the bare minimum number of new units we need to add to the blitz mod in all of your opinion, i have a small unit list, and i want to know what all of you think |
I really like the idea of "light" and "heavy" armor, but after reading your disapproval I tried to figure out why you felt that way. Then I quickly realized that the AI wouldn't be able to handle it very well, so that's a no go.
quote:
i want to know the bare minimum number of new units we need to add to the blitz mod in all of your opinion, i have a small unit list, and i want to know what all of you think |
I like that idea a lot more (the UU bonus would be a +1 movement to Infantry), than trying to improve the MoW. Civ3 failed to give importance to naval warfare just as Civ2 did. However, with some editor options (i.e. railroad rate cap option) that could all change. For now, though, I don't think much action can be take. Maybe giving a few of the naval units the blitz ability could help? A slight decrease in cost might help? Making ships/boats that can transport units less potent in defending? That might make it more of a need to protect with more attack ships/boats. Less required resources might help, as well? Those are just a few ideas that might slightly make naval units more useful.
quote:
I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but when at least one Civ out of two has map trading capabilities maps may be traded. Meaning that even if you don't haven't researched Navigation you can still trade maps with another Civ that has researched Navigation. I wonder if this was the same principle before, yet, with Map Trading being the tech? I'm, also, not sure if communications with other Civs acts in the same way. Even though, this isn't that big of a deal it still isn't exactly how I pictured for it to be. |
Does anybody want to comment on this?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
korn469
|
|
Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
|
|
a couple of real quick comments, i have read them all though
Tridotan1
i looked over your proposed changes and the thing that really caught my attention
Brithish Commandos, Green Berets (whatever name) (marines)
if the improved MoW still sucks i will either give them kickass modern marines, or give them an improved version of the grenadier that also has the marine ability, both of which would still emphasize seapower, but wouldn't totally suck
quote:
Does anybody want to comment on this? |
techwins that is how it works for me, so the first one to discover the share communications tech or share maps can do it with all of the other civs
quote:
it looks like someone had made the air-to-surface missile i was talking about |
if we change cruise missiles to air units a number of problems comes up
*we lose the foot soldier trick, so it would be impossible to seperate it so that nuclear subs carry them and tac nukes and Aegis cruisers just carry them
*air interception rates are 90% so they would all get shot down without air superiority, or 9% with stealth, compared to 0% right now
the actual effect of the units doesn't change though, they would still work in the exact same way as current cruise missiles do, meaning that they would have the ability to kill units like they do now as far as damage is concerned they wouldn't change at all, and the only reason i would see why you would want to make this change would be to make them land on aircraft carriers
aircraft carriers in real life don't carry cruise missiles though, their escorts do, and when the patch comes out all of the planes that land on aircraft carriers will be able to sink ships
i will tweak cruise missiles, i might or might not make them immobile, i will make sure they have airlift (i think they do already but i'm not positive) i will even see if i can give them air missions, specifically precision strike and bombard (but not rebase they will have airlift instead) while still making them a ground unit; i'd give them stealth as well
if i can give them precision strike as a ground unit then they will be perfect, if not i might consider making them air units if i can work around the Aegis Cruiser and nuclear sub problem, in order to give them precision strike, but if i can't work around the Aegis Cruiser and nuclear sub problem i will leave them as ground units
also i have an idea for a plane that carries cruise missiles like the ALCM and the SNARK iirc, but i'm not sure if it would work
anyways i have a date but i will be back later on tonight or tommorrow, please post which new units you think are must haves, because i am going to add the new units tommorrow
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:16.
Apolyton Time is 00:16. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
15-03-2002 02:56
Attachment: 
|