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PatRussell
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Answer me this:
Muslims are going to heaven. (Yes or no) ? |
I'll answer your question with another...
Do Muslims believe that faith in Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to Heaven? The answer to this question is the answer to yours.
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PatRussell
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quote:
Originally posted by GP
But anyway here are some things I advise:
-read C.S. Lewis (Screwtape Letters and Narnia books)
-read G.L Chesterton
-hang out with/talk to some of the uni priests. They usually send smarter/hipper chaiplains to uni. |
Good advice, but I think the place to start reading would be the Bible (John and Romans for starters).
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MattHiggs
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I'd read Razzle or Mayfair.
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Caligastia
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Infatuation:
I have doubts that you are serious, but if you are I would suggest that you look a little further than christianity in your search. Christianity and other organised religions all tend to jockey for position as the "one true religion". If you are really interested in spiritual growth I suggest you read as much about the subject as possible and decide for yourself what the truth is. Following the legalistic dogma of christianity is nothing less than spiritual laziness.
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Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:16
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quote:
I hope everyone will go to heaven. I wish exactly the same as you do, but I just have the idea that it won't be that wasy. Unfortunately. |
So you're a bigot! You don't doubt at all that you will go to heaven but have automatically dismissed everyone else, covering it up with this, "probably," crap.
Whatever man. That's not what you say in discussions at church so don't try and bs everybody hear by covering it up with wishy washy smoke and mirrors.
Be a man and stand behind your beliefs.
You've already told me your answers to your own questions are invalid! To answer your own questions, you must have a firm and unwavering belief that you are right in the answer. But you respond with this:
quote:
I have an opinion about God. I think my opinion is right (otherwise it wouldn't be my opinion, nobody holds an opinion he disagrees with)
And if I say that God would be like this and that, why would I claim God more then someone who says God is liberal and tolerant ? Those people claim God as well. I have an opinion about God (loves everyone but accepts only those who love hem in return) and you have an opinion about God (loves everyone, whatever everyone loves)
Your claim is either as valid or as invalid as mines.
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So you see, if you REALLY are open to everyone's opinions, your questions would have multiple answers.
--->However you asked them EXPECTING A PARTICULAR ANSWER.
They are moot to say the least. But if it gives you peace of mind to have a particular answer to your questions (the ones they gave to you at Campus Crusade to tell people like me when you get into this kind of debate every 5 minutes) then that's great.
But it's still bigoted.
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Jack the Bodiless
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Converted underground reservoir tank.
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
The bible doesn't state that at all (through works)
Neither does the bible state predestination.
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Salvation is through faith alone:
quote:
Mk.16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Jn.3:18, 36 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already .... He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
Acts 16:30-31 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."
Rom.1:16-17 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God salvation to every one that believeth .... As it is written, The just shall live by faith."
Rom.3:20 "By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight."
Rom.3:28 "A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
Rom.4:2 "For if Abraham were justified by works he hath whereof to glory?"
Rom.4:13 "For the promise ... was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith."
Rom.5:1 "Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Gal.2:16 "A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."
Gal.3:11-12 "The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith."
Eph.2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost |
Salvation is through good works alone:
quote:
Ps.62:12 "For you render to each one according to his works."
Jer.17:10 "I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings."
Mt.12:37 "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
Mt.16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works."
Mt.19:17 "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Jn.5:29 "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Rom.2:6, 13 "Who 'will render to each one according to his deeds'. For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified."
2 Cor.5:10 "For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."
2 Cor.11:15 "Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works."
Jas.2:14 "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?"
Jas.2:17 "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."
Jas.2:21-25 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rabab the harlot also justified by works? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
1 Pet.1:17 "The Father, who without pariality judges according to each one's work." |
Faith and works are irrelevant, God predestined your fate before you were born:
quote:
Romans 8:29-30 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
Romans 9:11 "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth"
Ephesians 1:4-5 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will"
Ephesians 1:11 "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will"
Thessalonians 2:11-13 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"
2 Timothy 1:9 "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" |
It isn't possible to be a "Biblical" Christian, there are too many different contradictory interpretations. Calvinists believe they're the predestined Elect, most other fundies believe in salvation through faith alone, most "liberal" Christian denominations believe that good works are all that matters (i.e. good non-Christians will go to Heaven).
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PatRussell
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why? Aside from an annoying bit of ignorance about Islam, everything they've said is true from a Christian perspective.
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What in my original statement shows an ignorance about Islam? The only determining factor as to whether one goes to Heaven is faith in Christ and Christ alone. You cannot call Christ a great teacher and deny his claims to deity. Either He is the greatest teacher of all time and the son of God (as he claims) or he is a raving lunatic, there is no middle ground.
quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Just exactly WHICH Christians would those be? There are many Christian churches which are more tolerant of other religions. Unitarians and Old Dutch Catholic comes to mind. |
There are many groups which claim the name of Christ but will also deny or write off his teachings. Can they really call themselves Christian?
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20-11-2001 20:51
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