21-11-2001 20:21									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Hey look, another bigot! PatRussell how dare those heathens worship God and claim to do so in the name of Christ?

It seems to me you do the most "yelling" when you have no valid answer to the question.

Can a person be a Christian while denying the teachings of Christ?

I say No

	21-11-2001 20:23									#62
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I was refering to CS, not you. Don't internalize things so much.

Sorry, wasn't clear from the post...

	21-11-2001 20:24									#63
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'll have to give you points for not mentioning the sci-fi novel you call the Urantia Book at anytime in this thread.

	21-11-2001 20:35									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker -Not to mention the accounts of his life were written 20 years after he died at the EARLIEST, most were done even later than that.

So were many accounts of Shakespear's life, does that make them invalid?

quote: -Not to mention that there are many many many many many many many Christian writings that were done during that period which were more open to other religions

Shear numbers of incorrect writings and false teaching does not change the fact that it is wrong

quote: -Not to mention that the Catholic Church "edited" the Bible over the years and decided what went in and what didn't.

The Bible we have today was compiled from documents that were widely accepted even before they were put into one volume. There were many manuscripts and writings that were rejected by Christians of that day, these were not included in the canon of Scripture because they were not regared as valid.

quote: The Gospel of Thomas, for example, speaks of tolerance of other religions yet isn't included in the Bible.

See above

quote: I suggest some of you zealots read up on the Gnostic writings, for example.

What would be the purpose of "reading up on" teaching that contradicts the teaching of Christ? There is no reason to read a counterfeit when the real thing is available.

	21-11-2001 21:12									#65
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Pat Russell you are soooo brainwashed it's not even funny.

quote: Can a person be a Christian while denying the teachings of Christ?

Perhaps your understanding of Christ could use some balance.

Jesus only gave 2 commandments. And none of them involved excluding other religions from God.

	21-11-2001 21:51									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Pat Russell you are soooo brainwashed it's not even funny. Perhaps your understanding of Christ could use some balance. Jesus only gave 2 commandments. And none of them involved excluding other religions from God.

Originally spoken by Jesus Christ

"I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." John 3:16-18

	21-11-2001 21:58									#67
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Anyone who believes in damnation of everyone who doesnt believe in jesus christ needs to get out of the dark ages......

A god who only loves people who believe in him is no god.

	21-11-2001 22:07									#68
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"I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me."

I PREDICTED this phrase was going to be used at some point in this thread before ever posting in it! I should have bet money on it.

Another stock phrase dished out.

"MAT 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell. "

So if I start wacking it, I'm supposed to cut off my hand? That keeps me from going to hell?

	21-11-2001 22:11									#69
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quote: Originally posted by drake Anyone who believes in damnation of everyone who doesnt believe in jesus christ needs to get out of the dark ages...... A god who only loves people who believe in him is no god.

God does not only love those who love Him, He sent His son to die for the whole world. The issue is whether you will accept or reject that sacrifice. That and that alone determines your standing with God.

	21-11-2001 22:17									#70
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AND THAT IS WHERE YOUR ARGUMENT FAILS -- NOT EVERYBODY ***HAS A CHOICE***

Point, set, match.

	21-11-2001 22:24									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker AND THAT IS WHERE YOUR ARGUMENT FAILS -- NOT EVERYBODY ***HAS A CHOICE*** Point, set, match.

Nice volume, but no substance...

Fault.

	21-11-2001 22:30									#72
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You didn't respond to it.

Is that not why you all feel the need to send missionaries out into the world.

To tell them about the Good News?

"Hey guys, the good news is that all you heathen asses had better bow down Christ or burn in hell forever! Don't tell us we didn't warn you!"

	21-11-2001 22:38									#73
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Check out the following document issued by the Pope as part of the Vatican 2, in 1965. In it it validates other religions and calls for unity.

Another document calls for the Christian Churches to unite again as one. Clearly, the Pope at the time was wanting to reach for unity, not division. He didn't "diss" the other religions like you guys do.

This document is not supported by the current Pope:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...-aetate_en.html


This is just ONE example of how the dogma and doctrine which you believe has been modified over time. I GUARANTEE the Christianity you worship today isn't even close to that as under Christ and the First Popes.

I think this is one of the best documents ever issued, however it is not supported under current Papal leadership.

Which is freakin sad.

	21-11-2001 22:43									#74
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People who believe that anyone who doesn't share the same beliefs as they do will suffer eternally, sadden me.


Religon isn't about all this garbage anyways, You should spend more time studying the religon's teachings and philosophies and less time worrying about who is going to be burning in hell.

	21-11-2001 22:56									#75
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I agree Osweld. That's why I didn't want to get into it.

But I'm tired and cranky this morning.

	22-11-2001 06:35									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Is this still going on? Does anyone actually believe him? From what I can tell, AH is nearer the truth...

AH is the truth.

I prayed to him for release from my cold - and lo, I was cured! Never in the annals of medical science has a cold got better by itself!

Down with the false god of Coincidence! I shall sit by the right side of AH in heaven!

	22-11-2001 07:46									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Religon isn't about all this garbage anyways, You should spend more time studying the religon's teachings and philosophies and less time worrying about who is going to be burning in hell.

Biblical Christianity teaches that those who CHOOSE not to acknowledge Christ as savior will burn in Hell. Even a surface study of the Bible will show this.

Ted Striker - I did not realize your comment was intended for serious response. I would suggest you read Romans 1:18-32. The point is very clearly made here that man has chosen to deny God and God has allowed it. Each person has a choice each time they hear the Gospel of Christ to either believe or deny it. In doing so, each person decides whether to spend eternity in Heaven or Hell.

	22-11-2001 07:53									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Check out the following document issued by the Pope as part of the Vatican 2, in 1965. In it it validates other religions and calls for unity. Another document calls for the Christian Churches to unite again as one. Clearly, the Pope at the time was wanting to reach for unity, not division. He didn't "diss" the other religions like you guys do. This document is not supported by the current Pope: http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...-aetate_en.html This is just ONE example of how the dogma and doctrine which you believe has been modified over time. I GUARANTEE the Christianity you worship today isn't even close to that as under Christ and the First Popes. I think this is one of the best documents ever issued, however it is not supported under current Papal leadership. Which is freakin sad.

I would not consider Catholicism to be Biblical as there are several Catholic teachings that directly contradict scriptures. My sole point of reference is the Bible, not the Bible plus man's traditions.

	22-11-2001 07:58									#79
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quote: Originally posted by PatRussell Biblical Christianity teaches that those who CHOOSE not to acknowledge Christ as savior will burn in Hell. Even a surface study of the Bible will show this.

OK, Ignore me. Carry on in your holy crusade.


What a fool.

	22-11-2001 08:19									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld OK, Ignore me. Carry on in your holy crusade. What a fool.

Ignore what? I simply responded to your suggestion that I study the teachings and philosophies of "the religion" more closely. I have studied them at some length and take them at face value. If Jesus Christ Himself said that the only way to Heaven is through Him then any serious study of Christianity cannot produce any conclusion other than this. Or maybe you are referring to teachings and philosophies outside of the Bible? I would reject these as faulty at best and more likely outright false teaching.

	22-11-2001 08:26									#81
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Religon is not about whether god exists or does not exist, it is not about which religon is right or wrong, it is not about who believes in it or does not believe in it.

It is about the actuall teachings and philosophies of the religon, and using them to better your self. But instead, you'd rather use religon as a tool of discrimination and hatred.

	22-11-2001 09:02									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Religon is not about whether god exists or does not exist, it is not about which religon is right or wrong, it is not about who believes in it or does not believe in it. It is about the actuall teachings and philosophies of the religon, and using them to better your self. But instead, you'd rather use religon as a tool of discrimination and hatred.

How can you better yourself by using through any religion when you don't believe it's foundational teachings? The actual teachings of Biblical Christianity are exactly as I have stated them:

Faith in Jesus Christ ALONE is the only way to Heaven.

	22-11-2001 09:08									#83
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Whatever. Just don't go around telling people they are going to suffer for eternity because they don't share the same narrow-minded views as yourself.

	22-11-2001 10:40									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Oh good lawd! Hey CyberShy I think all you zealots must carry around some kinda card because the rhetoric that you guys respond with always sounds so much the same and so rehearsed! Answer me this: Muslims are going to heaven. (Yes or no) ?

No. Because Muslims don't believe in the Christian heaven. Just like you won't see to many Wiccan in the Muslim paradise, either

Marc

	22-11-2001 10:47									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Following the legalistic dogma of christianity is nothing less than spiritual laziness.

ROTFL!!!!!!!!


Spoken like someone who's never been a Conservative Christian! Spiritual laziness my ass! I was a Conservative Christian for seven years-it's hard work spiritually.

Now, I'll grant you, there *are* legalistic sects (they exist in all organized religions, unfortunately), as well as those that emphasise ritual as opposed to spiritual growth-those I'll agree with you on. Most Conservative Christian groups put a heavy emphasis on spirital growth, though.

Marc

	22-11-2001 10:53									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Just exactly WHICH Christians would those be? There are many Christian churches which are more tolerant of other religions. Unitarians and Old Dutch Catholic comes to mind. They are bigots because they claim a monopoly on God. They say Muslims are not going to heaven.

Hey Ted, you do see awfully concerned about Muslims. May safely I assume that you are one? Secondly, I am hoping your concern extends to their beliefs about other religious groups, not just Muslims.

quote: Is anyone on this board aware of the Vatican 2?

Yes. You do realize it only affects Roman Catholics?

Marc

	22-11-2001 11:04									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Chowlett That at least is easily dealt with. The Roman historian Josephus notes that a young rebel by the name of Jesus, from the town of Nazereth, was put to death for insurrection around the year 33AD. I don't have the time to get into this argument seriously atm, maybe later.

Unfortunately, it seems that reference was added at a later date. I don't have the web address right now, but it seems that the early church fathers who lived after Josephus don't mention the reference when talking about Jesus' life.

Also, there is a lot in the writings of Paul (or rather, there's a lot that *isn't* in the writings of Paul) to suggest that Jesus never existed as a human being.

Marc

	22-11-2001 11:52									#88
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Bahh

Religion-strange concept this is

Oh well maybe Ill try it. Not tommorrow though-I have to go to my Barber to recieve my blood-letting.Then its off to the medicinMan for that goats head and bucket of chicken blood.

	22-11-2001 13:35									#89
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quote: Biblical Christianity teaches that those who CHOOSE not to acknowledge Christ as savior will burn in Hell. Even a surface study of the Bible will show this.

Young baby lives to age 3. Doesn't have an understanding of the concept of Christ and so is never able to comprehend how to choose or not. So never makes the choice.

Oh sorry little baby, you are going to burn in hell.

Remote Amazon South American tribe is isolated from the entire world. Nearly impossible to reach them. They have never heard of Christ.

Oh sorry evil Amazonian primitive man, you are going to burn in hell too!

Gentle Hindu spends his life feeding the homeless, giving all of himself for the sake of others. The most honest, good, and spiritual man you will ever meet. Loves God and his fellow man with all of his heart and all of his soul.

Ohhh sorry mister nice Hindu, you didn't choose Christ either so you're going to burn in hell too!


Also tmarc,

Yes I do realize that only applies to catholics, but since there are many Catholics in this world, that's a huge chunk. And I am just concentrating on Muslims as an example. The Catholic document specifically also cites Buddhists and Hindus as well. Wiccans are just as welcome in my book and anyone else who seeks out God.


"Be still, and know that I am God." PS 45:10

	22-11-2001 15:25									#90
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quote: Young baby lives to age 3. Doesn't have an understanding of the concept of Christ and so is never able to comprehend how to choose or not. So never makes the choice. Oh sorry little baby, you are going to burn in hell. Remote Amazon South American tribe is isolated from the entire world. Nearly impossible to reach them. They have never heard of Christ. Oh sorry evil Amazonian primitive man, you are going to burn in hell too! Gentle Hindu spends his life feeding the homeless, giving all of himself for the sake of others. The most honest, good, and spiritual man you will ever meet. Loves God and his fellow man with all of his heart and all of his soul. Ohhh sorry mister nice Hindu, you didn't choose Christ either so you're going to burn in hell too!

And people worship someone who condemns people like this...

I will never be a Christian.